RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals?

RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 8:18:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I know that righties think that their view of the world is about 'hard-headed realism' rather than the idealism of the lefties They like to think that, but their philosophy often comes across as being based on even more absurd and impractical fantasies than anything the lefties come out with. There's this daft notion that an unregulated capitalist market will control itself in everybody's best interests for a start...

kdsub -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 8:25:18 AM)
lol... When I was 16 I made the asbestos tape for the Mercury space capsule...believe it or not it did take skill to run that machine properly. Although it will most likely kill me one day. Butch

Moonhead -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 8:31:26 AM)
If it hasn't killed you yet, you're probably good for a while longer. That was a while back, after all.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 8:36:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub lol... When I was 16 I made the asbestos tape for the Mercury space capsule...believe it or not it did take skill to run that machine properly. Although it will most likely kill me one day. Butch The good news is that that was probably chrysotile (white) asbestos and not Amosite, Anthophyllite, Actinolite, Tremolite (brown) or Crocidolite (blue). Chrysotile is much less carcinogenic than the others primarily due to its morphology and was the asbestos used in most applications in the US and Canada.

Fellow -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 8:52:39 AM)
quote: Yes correct. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette and the French Revolution, anyone? Nicholas and Alexandra and the Russian Revolution, anyone? I love how people conveniently forget history. When the ruling class ignores poverty and truly leaves people to starve - bad things always happen. Starving people who have limited means of self-survival will do what they have to do. (How is someone who doesn't own land supposed to farm?? You can't take over public land to farm for personal gain - it's illegal.) Did I just become "Occupy the Public Land" movement? The ruling class in the US does not ignore poverty. The food stamp program is an example of it. The problem, I see, is basically the power structure itself that prevents significant structural reforms. The current direction in the US economy was taken about quarter of century ago and we are stuck with it. The government currently borrows about 1.3 trillion a year (officially, in realty much more) to keep these programs alive. It is simply not sustainable, and there is practically nothing in place to reverse the trend. Rioting will come for sure, Greece today is the US three years from now, it may lead to some change.

kalikshama -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 10:53:28 AM)
quote: What Franson is referring to is an entirely different species (humans) helping a different species (park animal) that creates a dependency that is not naturally occurring. Yes, it's offensive because she's denying food stamp recipients their humanity by comparing them to non-humans.

Raiikun -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 2:06:22 PM)
"Denying their humanity?" Not at all. No more than telling someone "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is calling that person a dog. Or saying that someone is as wise as an owl is denying their humanity, or telling someone he has the memory of an elephant, or the appetite of a bird. It's a warning on people becoming dependant on government programs; not an attempt at name-calling.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 6:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: What Franson is referring to is an entirely different species (humans) helping a different species (park animal) that creates a dependency that is not naturally occurring. Yes, it's offensive because she's denying food stamp recipients their humanity by comparing them to non-humans. I'm just saying Franson's point doesn't actually make any sense. Animals actually cooperate with each other. So behaving like an animal is actually a GOOD thing. That's what I meant. In other words, you can turn her words on their head and talk about all the ways in which animals help and assist each other. She is assuming that animals don't help each other out, but in the wild, animals of one species will help each other out. We are no different from animals in that regard. We help our fellow humans out. This isn't about dependency or "animal" as she thinks of it. She is just wrong in her characterization of animals. It's the animals who should be offended because her analogy only works if you think animals don't assist each other. She's just plain wrong. If humans did not help each other out - well then we would be behaving WORSE than animals. Animals help each other out.

erieangel -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/6/2012 7:51:53 PM)
quote: animals of one species will help each other out. They don't have to be of the same species. One of my cats was a rescue that was found and taken care of by a neighborhood dog as a new born kitten. (Actually, all of my cats were discarded as kittens).

tweakabelle -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/7/2012 12:08:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow People who would starve to death without the program should just grow their own food. Michelle Obama gives a great example how to do it. She is not working, she has two young children, her husband gives her no money for food. So, she starts the vegetable garden. She has no land, she just uses public owned land for it. Everybody can do the same. I know that righties think that their view of the world is about 'hard-headed realism' rather than the idealism of the lefties - but the assumptions behind this sort of sentiment beggar belief. Why do people assume that those who are starving will just put up with it? Disraeli, more than a century ago, realised that when people get too poor, they'll stop playing within society's rules. That is just how things are. Perhaps even worse is the underlying philosophy - that the individual is always the author of their own misfortune. How this can be applied in free wheeling capitalist society that fetishes winners and throws 'losers' onto the scrapheap defies logic. The price of having winners is that some people are going to end up losers, and there are going to be an awful lot more losers than winners in today's world. It's just the "way things are". You can't have one without the other. So individuals are not always the authors of their own misfortunes. This posiiton is nasty judgemental and irresponsible. That's before we begin to look at questions like: why should children be made to suffer for the alleged financial 'inadequacy' of their parents?

tazzygirl -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/7/2012 12:15:52 AM)
quote: "Denying their humanity?" Not at all. No more than telling someone "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is calling that person a dog. Or saying that someone is as wise as an owl is denying their humanity, or telling someone he has the memory of an elephant, or the appetite of a bird. It's a warning on people becoming dependant on government programs; not an attempt at name-calling. I want you to consider a few things. Dont bite the hand that feeds you... even humans can bite. So, no, its not animal related. Or saying that someone is as wise as an owl.. a compliment telling someone he has the memory of an elephant.. a compliment the appetite of a bird.. was considered a compliment until we discovered how much birds really eat, but some still take it as a compliment. quote: Isn't it ironic that the food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever. Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to please not feed the animals, because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves. This is, in no way, a compliment to anyone. Its suggests people will become too stupid to take care of themselves., a wild animal that will become too domesticated to survive in the wild. No matter how much you want to draw the same correlations, they just are not there.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 6:50:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: animals of one species will help each other out. They don't have to be of the same species. One of my cats was a rescue that was found and taken care of by a neighborhood dog as a new born kitten. (Actually, all of my cats were discarded as kittens). Yes, this is also true (although rarer and usually only with infant animals of a different species - it is very rare to find adult animals of one species helping out an adult animal of another species) - but I think we all agree that there can be many wonderful positive examples of assistance from the animal world. Shouldn't we behave at least as well as the animal world and help out our fellow human beings?

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 6:58:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Perhaps even worse is the underlying philosophy - that the individual is always the author of their own misfortune. How this can be applied in free wheeling capitalist society that fetishes winners and throws 'losers' onto the scrapheap defies logic. The price of having winners is that some people are going to end up losers, and there are going to be an awful lot more losers than winners in today's world. It's just the "way things are". You can't have one without the other. So individuals are not always the authors of their own misfortunes. This posiiton is nasty judgemental and irresponsible. That's before we begin to look at questions like: why should children be made to suffer for the alleged financial 'inadequacy' of their parents? Yes, I think this is so important to note. Poverty is not going to ever go away (when in human history has poverty not existed?). If anything, the predictions for the future are greater concentration of wealth and greater disparity of income. This means that how a society chooses to redistribute wealth will start to matter a lot. We can be enlightened about our approach or stick our heads in the sand. I, like you, prefer a more enlightened approach. One thing that upsets me about policies around poverty and poor children is that the same politicians who don't believe in supporting contraception or abortion also don't believe in handouts. How enlightened. I have to say, in reference to another post on this thread, that if a dog can help out a baby kitten then politicians like this are, in fact, not like animals, but worse.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:32:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Used to be a time when politicians had better sense than to utter a word without it being fact checked and approved. Not in my lifetime.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:33:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun I don't see how that is any more of a negative comparison than a plethora of other statements that make comparisons to animals when making a point. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." Off the top of my head. Poorly worded maybe, but that's a major over-reaction over nothing. You,like she, see only what you choose to see. That is why you are both wrong.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:35:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx I'm starting to believe it is just politicians and they all suck, no matter what flavour they are. I think you may be on to something there. This is a tweet I favorited last night; "Hey, assholes. It's possible to support gay marriage, loathe racism AND be a conservative. Ever heard of nuance?" I would be interested in just how one would accomplish that. How would you do it?

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:41:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Michele Bachmann Says If You Are Unemployed, You Should Starve November 8, 2011 Yesterday morning during a speech at the Family Research Council in Washington, Michele Bachmann bashed the unemployed in perhaps the most heartless way possible. After vowing to weaken social safety net programs such as Social Security, Medicare, food stamps, and unemployment benefits, Bachmann said that if you are currently not working, you should not be eating. “Our nation needs to stop doing for people what they can and should do for themselves. Self reliance means, if anyone will not work, neither should he eat.” Bachmann is saying that the unemployed should starve themselves and their families since they are out of work through no fault of their own. She might as well have added that the unemployed shouldn’t be allowed to have clothes or a roof over their head. This statement by Bachmann shows how much the Republican Party loathes the unemployed. They have zero compassion for anyone or anything. Even Jesus fed the needy. These Republicans have no Christian values at all, nor do they have humanity. You are not allowed to twist context and meanings. At no point in time did Bachmann say that the unemployed should not eat. If you list yourself as "unemployed," that means you are looking for work and have not yet found it. But, those aren't the people who Bachmann was talking about. The phrase. "will not work," is not equivalent to "can not find work." Who, exactly are these people whom you claim refuse to work? So, if you are choosing to not work, when you are capable, why should we be responsible for feeding you? I do not work and I get a check from the govt. You are responsibile for feeding me because I am entitled to it. The fact that you do not like fullfilling your obligations to me is tough shit.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:43:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow The remark (do not feed animals) is actually directed towards the government program, not blaming the recipients. Food stamp program has been fastest growing program since 2009. In case the government would shut it down the consequences (food riots) would be difficult to handle. Still, my advice for the recipients is: do not get comfortable and think it will be part of your budget forever. People who would starve to death without the program should just grow their own food. Michelle Obama gives a great example how to do it. She is not working, she has two young children, her husband gives her no money for food. So, she starts the vegetable garden. She has no land, she just uses public owned land for it. Everybody can do the same. What ms.bachman and most of the posters in her favor are ignorant of is the who what when where and why of food stamps. Who created them and why? Should the ignorant ms. bachman ever find the answer to the question she would shut the fuck up.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:46:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow quote: Yes correct. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette and the French Revolution, anyone? Nicholas and Alexandra and the Russian Revolution, anyone? I love how people conveniently forget history. When the ruling class ignores poverty and truly leaves people to starve - bad things always happen. Starving people who have limited means of self-survival will do what they have to do. (How is someone who doesn't own land supposed to farm?? You can't take over public land to farm for personal gain - it's illegal.) Did I just become "Occupy the Public Land" movement? The ruling class in the US does not ignore poverty. The food stamp program is an example of it. The food stamp program is a classic example of a govt givaway to agribiz that can be twisted into a club to beat the food stamp recipiants with.

thompsonx -> RE: Food Stamp Recipients = Animals? (3/8/2012 8:53:05 AM)
quote: It's a warning on people becoming dependant on government programs; not an attempt at name-calling. The government givaway program gives the money to agribiz. Agribiz could not exist without this and other govt hand outs. Once you know this it becomes obvious that it was nothing more than name calling.

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