Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/4/2006 9:06:36 PM   
jazzbound318


Posts: 8
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I have a question, and this is serious ...

People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people *can* get married?

Also, has anyone considered the fact that allowing them to get married is basically allowing them to suffer the miserable consequences of divorce as well? People get married, stay that way for a few years and then get divorced and bitch about who got the most stuff and how horribly they got screwed over by their ex. If anything, not being allowed to get married in the first place is sparing you all that ...




Darq, where does it say they  *can't* ? 

    Above you've illustrated the point beautifully of what a sham the 'sanctity of marriage' is in this country, so i'm not quite sure how letting gay folk in on the 'fun' (note the sarcasm) is really going to do much damage. 

   Also, to address the issue of 'it doesn't affect me, i'm straight, none of the legislation they're passing now are aimed at taking away My rights' i leave with this quote:
"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."
(a quote by (i think) Pastor Martin Nimmer )
 
 
 
*$0.02*


< Message edited by jazzbound318 -- 6/4/2006 9:08:18 PM >

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/4/2006 10:16:03 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq
I have a question, and this is serious ...
People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people *can* get married?
 

It doesnt mention anywhere specificly that gay people can wed. Nor does it mention the rights of African Americans, Native Americans, women or in some cases children.
However to most people the Bill of Rights, the UN Charter, civil rights cases all encompass the ideals that all men are created equal. To that end the point would be that regardless of race, creed, sex, orientation, education, income etc etc etc that what rights or privaleges are allowed or legal for one is legal for all. Most people view the Constitution as a "living document" the same as some also feel the bible and other religious texts are or should be. So my point would be that while the gay issue isnt mentioned, as neither is the rights of African Americans, women etc, that they/we are included and always should have been.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 6:58:37 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I have a question, and this is serious ...

People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people *can* get married?



Articles 9 and 10 are pretty clear that our rights are not limited to a laundry list of things specifically named in the Consitution.... 

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:06:08 AM   
HisTicia


Posts: 203
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

1. If you don't support extending gay rights, you must be a hater of gays. (Lisa 1978, HisTicia,Alumbrado and juliaoceana agree. And of course MsMacomb agrees.)


First of all.. I don't remember saying anywhere that if you didn't support gay rights.. you have a hatred of gays.  I believe it is more fear... that someone is different than you are..that everything you have been taught all of these years just might not be correct.... trust me.. I have tried to understand it for many, many years.  I don't think you have to approve.. or think something is okay.. in order to believe that someone deserves the same right to live and be happy that you do.   I mean.. we aren't talking about anyone being hurt in any way from this.. everyone should be allowed to love..and to express that..and share it with the world.  I just can't see the problem with it.. but.. I don't feel I have been mean.. or aggressive in my views.. I have most simply stated them.  We all have causes or things that we feel passionate about..and this happens to be one of mine.  Not only because I have been in the position before..but I have many friends that have been also.  How many could tell their daughter.. or son.. yes..  honey.. you have the right to be happy..and in love.. to get married..and have your dreams.. just make sure you do it with the "right kind" of person.  Years from now.. generations will look at this the same way as they have for african-american rights.. interracial marriage.. and religious freedoms.. What the heck took them so long..and what the heck was the big deal? 
 
  Edited to say: Also.. I don't mind being quoted.. I actually enjoy it..but only when it is something I can actually claim.  I for one, do not group myself in with anyone.. I think for myself..and have my own reasons for my views.  I don't hate a group of people... nor I think that every group is wrong or right on every cause.  I have not only voted democrat..but also republican.. I can reason and vote for who I think is better for the job.. or for a cause that I feel strongly about.  I don't "jump on the bandwagon" so to speak.. I read.. I analyze..and I make decisions based on that and my reactions to it.   


< Message edited by HisTicia -- 6/5/2006 8:30:12 AM >

_____________________________

All my soul follows you, love encircles you and I live in being yours. ~Browning

Believe nothing just because someone else believes it. Believe only what you yourself test and judge to be true. ~Buddha


(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:15:41 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Bush fired a bunch of gay arab translators. ?..to monitor chatter around teh world... 
Last I heard- the positions remain empty. So we have less  resources per inteligence now.

bush lives in his own little world- a glass house of sorts.

he is anti gay, anti middle class, and anti human.

frankly i expected more- his father is better calibur then gw is!

(in reply to HisTicia)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:18:39 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		oh- he also has delusions of grandiure

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:44:59 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		This is a hard topic ... even if you respectfully do not agree with the President, some people will start throwing accusations that you are attacking him, etc ...
 
It seems to me (this is only my opinion) that nobody is really hurt by allowing gay couples, married rights. The arguments made against it, sound like they are made by people that need to read the parable of the prodigal son. That gay married people get some rights, doesn't mean straight married people are getting any less.
 
A while back, on the Gorean board, there was a series of posts bashing feminism as the great evil of our society, etc ... I asked the question, a question that was never successfully answered by the way, "What rights did men have one-hundred years ago, that they don't have today, because it was taken from them by the feminist movement?"
 
Same question on this issue:
 
If you are a straight married couple, what right would you lose, if gay married people were given the same rights as straight married people?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:52:10 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

...I just wanted to say how convincing I found Chaingang's arguments in this thread.

He's absolutely proven that:

1. If you don't support extending gay rights, you must be a hater of gays. (Lisa 1978, HisTicia,Alumbrado and juliaoceana agree. And of course MsMacomb agrees.)...

......Think about this way of reasoning for a minute: Someone disagrees with you. If you wildly exaggerated their position, you could make them seem like a monster. Now that they're a monster, you can despise them. Therefore, no need to argue the issue rationally, no need to try to be tolerant -- just let your emotions run wild.

It's so much more satisfying to think that people who disagree with you are monsters. That makes you feel much better because it makes you seem more upright. And it saves you the trouble of thinking.

Just be careful not to become just the kind of intolerant hater you despise.



Thanks for proving that you yourself have done exactly that, by fabricating positions and quotes for other people, that they never put forth, and doing so for no apparent reason except to stir up hatred..

I didn't say that anyone with an argument against gay marriage must hate gay people, but you were willing to fabricate a lie, and claim that I (specifically mentioned by name), did in fact feel that way, and had somehow expressed that feeling.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/5/2006 8:53:15 AM >

(in reply to DelightMachine)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 8:57:13 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
As I said in an earlier post, the legislation may indeed be bigoted, and although many bigots harbor hate, I didn't think Bush went that far.


Is that so? Why? Do you know him personally?

When I see people do bigoted things, I don't stop and wonder why or if they are bigots - I just take it as a given that they ARE bigots.

You might say it's just all politics. Right. Bigoted politics.





< Message edited by Chaingang -- 6/5/2006 8:59:53 AM >

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 9:44:31 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."
(a quote by (i think) Pastor Martin Nimmer )

from: http://www.theperspective.org/peacefulmarch.html


thats damn good

(in reply to jazzbound318)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 10:02:18 AM   
lisa1978


Posts: 224
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Kansas City
Status: offline 		I do not think George W hates gay people. I think his religious beliefs prevent him from caring about them and heck if he can use them to score some political points all the better. As far as his charecter goes. People are judged by their actions not by what they say. George W is the most powerful man in the world and he has shown he is a divider and fear peddler. At some point the "he is a moral guy" cannot be taken seriously anymore.

This amendment proposal should have everybody worried no matter what side of the fence you are on. Outside of prohibition amendment which got repealed, nothing in the bill of rights or any amendments have been put in to restrict freedoms of a citizen in this country. This amendment is basically saying we do not respect you. I know some would say I am splitting hairs, but to me at the very least, debate/pass laws on gay marriage but do not put something exclusionary in such a wonderful document.


_____________________________

It hurts sometimes more than we can bear. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Empty rooms, shuttered and dank. Without passion, we'd be truly dead.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 10:18:34 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Lisa, bush rather did-----done ruin his credibilty. It is hard to try to hear him out these days.

You know, drivers licenses, passports, humans all expire. State paperwork needs renewal.

I think corporate charters should expire, and come up for renewal. Then renewal is only granted- after proving they are a responsible member of society.

(in reply to lisa1978)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 3:35:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		One thing for sure, I will never vote for anyone who went to Yale again.
Two DUDS in a row both went to Yale!
First Clinton and now this brain dead idiot!
With 12,000 Illegal Aliens flooding over that Mexican border per day the U.S. Senate wants to debate gay marriage???
SHEESH!!!!

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 3:45:29 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom
You're a bit behind the times. Consentual sodomy is no longer a crime in any State. The Surpreme Court ruled such statutes are unconstitutional. They do however remain as crimes in a non-consentual context.
*meow*
 

No I'm not behind the times. I am fully aware of the ruling and also know that the first time a backwards state wants to challenge it on a states rights issue with the new appointments (Roberts, Alito) it would be overturned.


You apparently are not very familiar with those jurists.

This is just doomsaying with no proof and little reasoning.

*meow*

(in reply to MsMacComb)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 3:47:54 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMacComb

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArtCatDom
If you're a Republican and think that policies of Bush haven't existed in the Republican Party for at least 25 years, you haven't been paying attention to politics.

*meow*
 

Where do people like you come from? What planet? I've seen no other president (GOP) the last 25 years do nothing like Bush has. Do you live at FOX News or something? God but your information is false.


You apparently must have been absent, unconscious or not paying attention during Reagan's administration. Bush's policies were pioneered by that administration. (Heavy deficit spending, questionable/illegal military actions, increased secrecy, jingoism, etc.)

*meow*



(in reply to MsMacComb)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 3:51:44 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I have a question, and this is serious ...

People keep mentioning the constition ... Where in the constitution does it say that gay people *can* get married?

Also, has anyone considered the fact that allowing them to get married is basically allowing them to suffer the miserable consequences of divorce as well? People get married, stay that way for a few years and then get divorced and bitch about who got the most stuff and how horribly they got screwed over by their ex. If anything, not being allowed to get married in the first place is sparing you all that ...



It would "say so" in the 9th, 10th and 14th Amendments, unless a particular State constitution bans the practice it is reserved as a right of the people.

*meow*

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 3:56:05 PM   
ArtCatDom


Posts: 478
Joined: 1/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

This is a hard topic ... even if you respectfully do not agree with the President, some people will start throwing accusations that you are attacking him, etc ...
 
It seems to me (this is only my opinion) that nobody is really hurt by allowing gay couples, married rights. The arguments made against it, sound like they are made by people that need to read the parable of the prodigal son. That gay married people get some rights, doesn't mean straight married people are getting any less.
 
A while back, on the Gorean board, there was a series of posts bashing feminism as the great evil of our society, etc ... I asked the question, a question that was never successfully answered by the way, "What rights did men have one-hundred years ago, that they don't have today, because it was taken from them by the feminist movement?"
 
Same question on this issue:
 
If you are a straight married couple, what right would you lose, if gay married people were given the same rights as straight married people?


Mind you, I generally support feminism. However, some forms of feminism (oddly enough using "traditional" language and ideas) has severely damaged the parental rights of men. Courts will favor the mother heavily over the father in custody battles, even if the father is considerably more fit to raise the children.

Just a thought.

*meow*

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 9:02:28 PM   
DelightMachine


Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

...I just wanted to say how convincing I found Chaingang's arguments in this thread.

He's absolutely proven that:

1. If you don't support extending gay rights, you must be a hater of gays. (Lisa 1978, HisTicia,Alumbrado and juliaoceana agree. And of course MsMacomb agrees.)...

......Think about this way of reasoning for a minute: Someone disagrees with you. If you wildly exaggerated their position, you could make them seem like a monster. Now that they're a monster, you can despise them. Therefore, no need to argue the issue rationally, no need to try to be tolerant -- just let your emotions run wild.

It's so much more satisfying to think that people who disagree with you are monsters. That makes you feel much better because it makes you seem more upright. And it saves you the trouble of thinking.

Just be careful not to become just the kind of intolerant hater you despise.



Thanks for proving that you yourself have done exactly that, by fabricating positions and quotes for other people, that they never put forth, and doing so for no apparent reason except to stir up hatred..

I didn't say that anyone with an argument against gay marriage must hate gay people, but you were willing to fabricate a lie, and claim that I (specifically mentioned by name), did in fact feel that way, and had somehow expressed that feeling.


Oh, I'm sorry, Alumbrado. I looked again. You're right, you did NOT say that. I was sloppy and for that I apologize. I have no proof whatever that you think that. I became confused by the blizzard of calumny blowing around this thread, part of it yours.

I get the impression you're a supporter of Chaingang Rule #2 ("everyone's entitled to insult politicians who disagree with that point of view.") because, at least with Bush and Cheney, you don't seem to have any problem in ascribing bad motives to them. Or do you suppose it's possible Bush is acting out of his actual beliefs?

Or is it just Bush and Cheney you think are despicable for disagreeing with you and no one else?

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

.....If I am to understand you, Bush nor Cheney hate gays because Cheney's daughter is gay, but they use this hatred to win elections... and I am supposed to admire this man??? That makes him reprehensible ... although it isnt like he lost my support for furthering hatred, he never had it



It does make him reprehensible...and it also makes him like every other politician who ever won an election through fear mongering...which is pretty much all of them.

These asinine 'amendments' get fed to the media with great regularity to mobilize the faithful against 'them'.

When politicians no longer get the expected reactions to their standard tactics, will be the point in time at which they desperately search around for a different approach.... like maybe nominating someone who can lead.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=406696
 
Exactly how is Bush using hatred to win elections? By simply bringing up the matter? Or is there something in the way he's bringing it up?
 
Is opposing gay marriage necessarily fear mongering?
 
When Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage act, was he fear mongering? Was Al Gore doing that when he supported that act?
 
If you can't show that Bush is trying to stir up hatred, then why doesn't this quote apply to you?
quote:

Thanks for proving that you yourself have done exactly that, by fabricating positions and quotes for other people, that they never put forth, and doing so for no apparent reason except to stir up hatred..
 
As I said before, just be careful not to become just the kind of intolerant hater you despise.
 
[Edited for font color and to get Alumbrado's name spelled right]



< Message edited by DelightMachine -- 6/5/2006 9:32:55 PM >

_____________________________

I'd rather be in
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 9:31:11 PM   
DelightMachine


Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Histicia:
quote:

DelightMachine:
1. If you don't support extending gay rights, you must be a hater of gays. (Lisa 1978, HisTicia,Alumbrado and juliaoceana agree. And of course MsMacomb agrees.)
 
First of all.. I don't remember saying anywhere that if you didn't support gay rights.. you have a hatred of gays.  I believe it is more fear... that someone is different than you are..that everything you have been taught all of these years just might not be correct.... trust me.. I have tried to understand it for many, many years.

 
Maybe I got the wrong impression from this statement you made:
quote:

I have not hated him..though he hates myself and some of my closest friends. [SNIP]   Oh.. that's right.. I forgot.. dumbass me.. all of that is caused by gay ppl anyway.. duh.
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=406275 
 
Why do you think Bush hates gays? What reason do you have to think that?
 
OK, I accept that you don't think that everyone who is opposed to gay marriage or other gay rights is a hater, but in the quote just above, you don't seem to be able to accept that people who disagree with you on these things might simply be wrong and still have good motives.
 
quote:

I don't think you have to approve.. or think something is okay.. in order to believe that someone deserves the same right to live and be happy that you do.   I mean.. we aren't talking about anyone being hurt in any way from this.. everyone should be allowed to love..and to express that..and share it with the world.
Yes, but you don't need state-approved marriage for that, so it's beside the point.
quote:

 I don't feel I have been mean.. or aggressive in my views.. I have most simply stated them.
I think you were very aggressive in talking about Bush. And if you can't prove he's a hater, I'd call your statement mean. Granted, he's a big boy and can take it, and people constantly ascribe bad motives to presidents they disagree with -- but that doesn't make it right, does it?
quote:

We all have causes or things that we feel passionate about..and this happens to be one of mine.
Well, I think that's the best defense: Almost all of us say things in a strong way when we feel passionate. But it doesn't actually justify it.
 
Look, if more of you guys keep defending yourselves so well, I'm gonna have to take back that whole post. Quit it, will ya? 

_____________________________

I'd rather be in
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

(in reply to HisTicia)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... - 6/5/2006 9:34:50 PM   
CollaredProperty


Posts: 167
Joined: 6/3/2006
Status: offline 		Two things to never discuss with BDSM'ers

1. Political Parties
2. Religion

_____________________________

slave susan
Under A Collar Of Consideration By Master L
Moved to Tulsa Oklahoma
"BDSM SLAVE ONLY, ALPHA TYPE, PASSION FOR EXTREME EDGE PLAY, IT IS NOT ABOUT SEX FOR ME, IT'S ABOUT TPE"

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 100
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: For those still needing a reason to hate this SOB... Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.110