RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012

RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (Full Version)

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SternSkipper -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 10:27:43 AM)
quote: Yeah, its not a poll tax if you get plastic with it. Maybe they can bring back "Voter Literacy tests" and Jim Crowe while they're at it.

DomKen -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 12:16:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Lemme guess..you walk miles through sleet, rain, hail, snowdrifts umpteen feet high and uphill both ways, right? So, any cost there is for me to get to the polls (what about those incapable of walking? what do they do?) is just something I have to eat, but requiring an Ohioan to pay $8.25 every 4 years is unConstitutional. Interesting. I have to be responsible enough to get myself to the polls, however much it costs me, but my fellow Ohioans don't have to be responsible enough to have a valid, government-issue picture ID. Wow. I have never voted absentee, so I don't know if there is a cost associated with mailing it back in. If that is the responsibility of voter, is that, too, unConstitutional? Where do you draw the line? What costs are to be borne by the voter, and what costs are unConstitutional if placed on the voter? Where is it that the voter's responsibility ends and government's responsibility starts? Is it unConstitutional to charge taxpayers for the running of an election? Is that not a cost or fee for the right to vote? This is pretty simple. Any cost imposed by government in order to vote is unconstitutional. So poll taxes and voter ID laws where the only acceptable, or easily acquired, ID's have fees attached are out. If it is a cost you choose to pay, such as those associated with driving to the polling place, those are ok because you can avoid them.

DesideriScuri -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 6:26:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper Nah.. I figured any BULLSHITTING in this thread would be your department. It's a half mile walk and I do it twice a day anyway as my daughter attends school there, and I participate in the PTO. They call that contributing to society, it's different than just putting plates on your car and paying your taxes. The rest of your post is a waste of time. You SHOULD have gotten the license vs RIght part two posts ago. Now get your last word in, cause we all know you're desperate to do that. Holy crap, you were serious about all that?!?!? What happens if you live more than a mile from your polling place? Oh, yeah, tough shit. If you're on crutches? Tough shit, you can still walk. I'm very glad you have the opportunity and ability to walk and take them. I am also very glad that you are taking an active part in your daughter's life and in the school PTO program. Those are all great things. They don't have a shit to do with the right to vote, but they are commendable actions.

DesideriScuri -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 6:32:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Lemme guess..you walk miles through sleet, rain, hail, snowdrifts umpteen feet high and uphill both ways, right? So, any cost there is for me to get to the polls (what about those incapable of walking? what do they do?) is just something I have to eat, but requiring an Ohioan to pay $8.25 every 4 years is unConstitutional. Interesting. I have to be responsible enough to get myself to the polls, however much it costs me, but my fellow Ohioans don't have to be responsible enough to have a valid, government-issue picture ID. Wow. I have never voted absentee, so I don't know if there is a cost associated with mailing it back in. If that is the responsibility of voter, is that, too, unConstitutional? Where do you draw the line? What costs are to be borne by the voter, and what costs are unConstitutional if placed on the voter? Where is it that the voter's responsibility ends and government's responsibility starts? Is it unConstitutional to charge taxpayers for the running of an election? Is that not a cost or fee for the right to vote? This is pretty simple. Any cost imposed by government in order to vote is unconstitutional. So poll taxes and voter ID laws where the only acceptable, or easily acquired, ID's have fees attached are out. If it is a cost you choose to pay, such as those associated with driving to the polling place, those are ok because you can avoid them. Can you avoid them? Really? So, when I get chewed on by a Vet, and he says he hopes I get confined to a wheel chair so I get to see how easy it is to get to a polling place, that's fine. But, when I bring the matter up, I get told that it's an avoidable cost? The problem with dealing with most ideologues is that they change what they are saying depending on what they need to back up their stance. Even if someone were to call me out for the same thing, they'd be wrong because I've been saying the same thing, over and over, and over, the whole time. No matter what angle I get attacked from, my stance doesn't change.

BitaTruble -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 7:01:05 PM)
If anyone has an issue with getting to their polling place there are many agencies that offer free rides for voters. Generally, you can contact your county clerk for the information for free rides for voters. I also found that several places will give you free rides just to go get your ID card as well. It needn't cost you a thing and stumpers are more than happy to help you in your endeavors to cast your ballots to vote and get you the materials you need to do so. Where there is a will there is a way! Example: The Marion County Democratic, Libertarian, and Republican parties provide transportation to the polls to residents of Marion County. When calling, give your name, address, and telephone number. Libertarian Party of Marion County 133 W. Market St, #159 Indianapolis, IN 46204 (317) 372-6436 Marion County Democratic Party 603 E. Washington Street, Suite 100 Indianapolis, IN 46204 (317) 637-3366 Marion County Republican Central Committee 47 South Pennsylvania Street, Suite 300 Indianapolis, IN 46204 (317) 635-8881

thishereboi -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/13/2012 8:06:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Is cards in my state are 36.50 same as a drivers license.. and expires.. my drivers license lists me in another county.. because I moved since I got it.... Sorry... Nearly 40 bucks is a lot of money in my world....its gas and heat for a month.. or food.. or a textbook... That's alot of money for an id card. Here it is only $10 for most and free for the rest. http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-1627_8668_53359_53361-213207--,00.html Standard state ID cards are free to applicants age 65 or older, to those who are legally blind, or to those whose license has been revoked, suspended or denied due to a physical or mental disability that affects their ability to drive. The fee can also be waived for individuals who present other good cause for a fee waiver.

DesideriScuri -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/14/2012 6:05:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble If anyone has an issue with getting to their polling place there are many agencies that offer free rides for voters. Generally, you can contact your county clerk for the information for free rides for voters. I also found that several places will give you free rides just to go get your ID card as well. It needn't cost you a thing and stumpers are more than happy to help you in your endeavors to cast your ballots to vote and get you the materials you need to do so. Where there is a will there is a way! Perhaps everyone should vote absentee unless they do not have a physical address (homeless). Those people could get to their closest charity to vote.

PeonForHer -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/14/2012 6:48:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen If it is a cost you choose to pay, such as those associated with driving to the polling place, those are ok because you can avoid them. Sorry - walking instead of driving? I thought we were talking about the USA here.

itsSIRtou -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 10:40:43 AM)
getting back to the OP.....lets be real here... these laws are a solution looking for a GOP problem to solve. all this talk about what people have to do, costs outside of an ID to pay and so on,.... is all background talk to the central issue that these laws arent needed other than to help the GOP keep a foot on the neck of the classes of voters who generally dont vote GOP. and Ive yet to really see anything other than "dont u wanna see this" justifications for it. Out of the 100's of MILLIONS of votes cast in each state, the handfull of fraudulent voters in each state can be found streched out over decades if at all. Everything this country has stood for - the freedom of "ONE American, ONE vote" is being compromised by these ID laws because the American people who MOST NEED to be part of this process, are going to be disenfranchised, - the party writing this crap are the only ones NOT affected by them. For instance, find Me anyone who is white and makes upwards of $200K thats going to be affected by this law? .....even $30K?? do I hear $20K? ,.....( insert their silence with sounds of crickets chirping here,...) .....any body white at even a $10K income level?? Because thats NOT who the laws are aimed at. How much more likely is the American whos going to be affected by these laws going to be a woman, a minority, disabled, poor, or homeless?? REALLY??? The civil right to vote for many Americans are going to be trampled on by these ID laws AND YOU KNOW IT. and that IS the point of these laws in the 1st place. To Cull the number of voters as much as possible through ANY means Necessary or/and possible... and again,...For those of u who have bitched about socialism of late, this is part of the same tactics that hitler used to get himself elected to chancellor. how u can go nuts hating about a health care law that GIVES rights to people ....and love a law that takes away or makes tougher to excercise the rights of people to me is a & the disturbing thing. u hate a socialist idea, but love a fascist idea? ( by the way, some of the other ideas he used were bringing down hate on gays & immigrant workers - things the GOP also does...) To borrow a quote from Abe Lincoln "voter ID laws may have many defenders, - but no defense."

Moonhead -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 11:52:51 AM)
How do the homeless figure in this? I didn't think you could vote over there without a permanent address... (No argument with the rest, though.)

itsSIRtou -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 1:27:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead How do the homeless figure in this? I didn't think you could vote over there without a permanent address... (No argument with the rest, though.) ...some states will allow the homeless to vote with a state issued ID from welfare or medical ID... or if theres prior local home onwership can be shown.... but if more homeless Americans could vote maybe better government addressing the homeless issues would result. MW

Hillwilliam -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 1:28:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead How do the homeless figure in this? I didn't think you could vote over there without a permanent address... (No argument with the rest, though.) Homeless people typically use the address of a local mission or shelter for mail, job applications, voting, etc.

Moonhead -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 1:30:39 PM)
I see. Thanks for clearing that up, chaps.

subrob1967 -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 1:38:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Lemme guess..you walk miles through sleet, rain, hail, snowdrifts umpteen feet high and uphill both ways, right? So, any cost there is for me to get to the polls (what about those incapable of walking? what do they do?) is just something I have to eat, but requiring an Ohioan to pay $8.25 every 4 years is unConstitutional. Interesting. I have to be responsible enough to get myself to the polls, however much it costs me, but my fellow Ohioans don't have to be responsible enough to have a valid, government-issue picture ID. Wow. I have never voted absentee, so I don't know if there is a cost associated with mailing it back in. If that is the responsibility of voter, is that, too, unConstitutional? Where do you draw the line? What costs are to be borne by the voter, and what costs are unConstitutional if placed on the voter? Where is it that the voter's responsibility ends and government's responsibility starts? Is it unConstitutional to charge taxpayers for the running of an election? Is that not a cost or fee for the right to vote? This is pretty simple. Any cost imposed by government in order to vote is unconstitutional. So poll taxes and voter ID laws where the only acceptable, or easily acquired, ID's have fees attached are out. If it is a cost you choose to pay, such as those associated with driving to the polling place, those are ok because you can avoid them. So are state permits to carry a gun, or laws stating you must be 21 to purchase a handgun but I don't see you guys whining about that[8\|]

DomKen -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 2:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Lemme guess..you walk miles through sleet, rain, hail, snowdrifts umpteen feet high and uphill both ways, right? So, any cost there is for me to get to the polls (what about those incapable of walking? what do they do?) is just something I have to eat, but requiring an Ohioan to pay $8.25 every 4 years is unConstitutional. Interesting. I have to be responsible enough to get myself to the polls, however much it costs me, but my fellow Ohioans don't have to be responsible enough to have a valid, government-issue picture ID. Wow. I have never voted absentee, so I don't know if there is a cost associated with mailing it back in. If that is the responsibility of voter, is that, too, unConstitutional? Where do you draw the line? What costs are to be borne by the voter, and what costs are unConstitutional if placed on the voter? Where is it that the voter's responsibility ends and government's responsibility starts? Is it unConstitutional to charge taxpayers for the running of an election? Is that not a cost or fee for the right to vote? This is pretty simple. Any cost imposed by government in order to vote is unconstitutional. So poll taxes and voter ID laws where the only acceptable, or easily acquired, ID's have fees attached are out. If it is a cost you choose to pay, such as those associated with driving to the polling place, those are ok because you can avoid them. So are state permits to carry a gun, or laws stating you must be 21 to purchase a handgun but I don't see you guys whining about that[8\|] Those are explicitly Constitutional despite your fantasies. See D.C. v Heller.

DesideriScuri -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 7:38:05 PM)
Gimme a break. This isn't about voter suppression. You are whining about the law not being aimed at these supposedly disenfranchised groups, and bring in race and socio-economic status. Why? This law applies to them as much as it applies to the others. They have to have their ID's, too, do they not? Lemme guess...you have no problem with laws aimed at those that earn more, though, right? I agree that everyone has the right to vote. Absolutely. Is there not any requirements or responsibilities that go along with that? If you want every American Citizen to have the right to vote, don't you have to make sure those who are voting are American Citizens? I have to wonder how many "likely voters" can't comply with this law as we argue back and forth. To be honest, I support voter ID laws. I believe it's that important (and every one of my precincts has asked for photo ID prior to allowing me to vote anyway). I do, unlike this law, believe that a photo VA ID card should be adequate. I agree that school ID's should not be acceptable. I also believe that State ID's should be free (not DL's). Is that going to make me a hatemonger elitist because I'm still forcing people to go to the DMV to get an ID?

erieangel -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/26/2012 9:17:54 PM)
You really don't get it. I recently helped a client obtain a state ID. It took three months. Prior to applying for the ID, he had to obtain a copy of his birth certificate, which cost him almost $50 because his mother couldn't locate the original. And because his step father adopted him, the name on his birth certificate is different than the name which he uses, so he had to get a copy of adoption certificate (his mother lost that, too). That was $20 and then the state ID was 13.50, but he had buy a money order which cost him $1.00. So, in reality, the state ID cost him (add it up with me, please) 50+20+13.50+1=$84.50. In all fairness, the $50 fee could have been avoided if he had obtained the adoption paperwork first, or if his parents had actually changed his name on the birth certificate. After I had lost my kids birth certificates in a fire, it cost me something like $35 to replace each of them. And I don't care what anybody says. $84.50 is a lot of money to somebody on SSI.

DesideriScuri -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/27/2012 3:39:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel You really don't get it. I recently helped a client obtain a state ID. It took three months. Prior to applying for the ID, he had to obtain a copy of his birth certificate, which cost him almost $50 because his mother couldn't locate the original. And because his step father adopted him, the name on his birth certificate is different than the name which he uses, so he had to get a copy of adoption certificate (his mother lost that, too). That was $20 and then the state ID was 13.50, but he had buy a money order which cost him $1.00. So, in reality, the state ID cost him (add it up with me, please) 50+20+13.50+1=$84.50. In all fairness, the $50 fee could have been avoided if he had obtained the adoption paperwork first, or if his parents had actually changed his name on the birth certificate. After I had lost my kids birth certificates in a fire, it cost me something like $35 to replace each of them. And I don't care what anybody says. $84.50 is a lot of money to somebody on SSI. You are quite correct. However, do people need ID to cash a check? Do people have to prove identification when applying for SSI and/or other welfare programs? SSI can be given through direct deposit, but I'm fairly certain you have to show ID to set up an account. I have no issue with "one Citizen, one vote." None. I do believe the key here, though, is "Citizen." It's not one person, one vote. It's one Citizen, one vote. Since gathering the adoption paperwork first would have cut out the $50, you're really only talking about $34.50. And, even then, you're only talking $13.50 going forward (unless it's a different cost for replacement of the expired card). I don't understand how people can be "in the system" and not have some form of State ID. I'm not saying it's impossible for that to happen, but I'm also saying that it's highly improbable unless someone else isn't doing their due diligence.

joether -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/27/2012 4:29:12 AM)
Ok folks, this shouldn't be more complicated than it really needs to be. The GOP is pushing for Voter ID. That should be the first clue they are up to no good. These are the same folks that gave us George W. Bush, phantom WMDs and screwed with the regulations that ultimately blew apart both the economy and the good citizens within it. Do I need to mention that they define 'torture' only to be actually torture IF "the torturer believes the torturee is actually being tortured!'. In essense, you take someone that hates someone else and they will NEVER think the person they are actually torturing is being tortured. They are also the folks that gave us the 'one step from treason' Tea Party morons with Sarah Palin at its head. The idea of having a Voter ID card is actually in direct violation with the 4th Amendment. Every citizen is allowed to vote, PERIOD. They are each given one vote, PERIOD. They state who they are and where they live. If someone objects, its the responsibility and requirement of the objector to state who the person is and/or where the person lives that is in conflict. I know it seems like a weird concept for some of you that a 'person is innocent until proven guilty' also applies with voting. Its a late 18th century concept that has been lost through the years by ignorant masses. A citizen should NOT have to 'Show Their Papers' just to vote. It is up to the objector(s) to show evidence to the local goverment (i.e. the police officer in modern times) that clearly shows the person in question is commiting fraud and should be arrested. The 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable searchs of one's self and property. However, the GOP conviently forgets about this, since it servers their agenda. Citizens should be very wary of a national organization that seeks to tip the balance of power towards shadey and otherwise untruthworthy individuals. Since if a tyrannical goverment was formed from the efforts of conservatives, would those supposive 'gun rights folks' stand up and oppose the goverment they just elected through tricky and crime? Of course not! More likely they wouldnt be even dimly aware of such a thing taking place. They werent aware of even half the bad stuff the previous Republican president did to the nation for eight years.... So getting back to Voter ID. I feel such things are simply a way of removing citizens their ability and right to have the people they want representing them in goverment. These laws (sponsored by the GOP) target individuals whom routinely vote for the Democrats. Since the Republicans consider the Democrats their enemies, they need to do anything and everything to weaken and/or nulify the ability of Democrats to get elected to office. And if that means creating laws that violate the US Constitution, than its 'alright'. Since in order for a citizen to challenge it, would take place well after the election (cus our Supreme Court is 'oh so quick' with handling decisions on many pending cases). By the way, how often does voter fraud ACTUALLY take place in EACH state/commonwealth of the country? Is it higher than 10%? That might warrent such laws. But if its less than 5% its simply a waste of taxpayer money chasing an Boogey Man. After all, in each election not even half of eligible voters, show up to the polls and vote. So where is the jusitfication for the waste of money from the very individuals that BITCH THE MOST when money is being wasted?

joether -> RE: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012 (3/27/2012 4:48:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri I have no issue with "one Citizen, one vote." None. I do believe the key here, though, is "Citizen." It's not one person, one vote. It's one Citizen, one vote. Thanks to the US Supreme Court, companies and corporations are citizens too! Therefore if your going with the 'One Citizen, one Vote' idea, before you know it, 28,293,294,192,395,302,295,571,205,847,202,111,793,829 corporations suddenly come into existance in all fifty states and terroritories in time for the vote. And if there is a recount, would you REALLY want to have to recound EVERY ONE OF THOSE BALLOTS BY HAND? Yeah, there IS a wisdom of setting it to 'One Person, One Vote' (not to mention keeping things serious instead of silly). Since Corporations and companies are NOT considered persons.

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