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RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 5:47:31 AM

xssve

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See now, atheism has simply become your "repository of evil" - it vexes you and you speak as if you would have it eradicated - so your first priority as gods mouthpiece is to start the inquisition up again to silence of your critics, that's the language you're using: you aren't defending your beliefs in a positive way, you're attacking he beliefs of others in an aggressive way.

You think it's because we're too benighted to understand - on the contrary, I understand perfectly.

And in the end, you're gonna find that your "enemies" are everybody and everything that is not you.

Good luck selling that bitch.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 101

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 5:58:08 AM

MrBukani

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Find me an atheist suicide bomber.

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 102

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:11:06 AM

Kainundeva

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Joined: 2/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kainundeva

the state HAS to be secular because if he is not, he has to choose which religion it supports... and that leaves the other religions second class.

This is certainly the conventional wisdom, the so-called pillar of present day Western society. It is deceptively false, however. I will not merely claim that it is false, I will provide argument.

Such a government is a theocracy by necessity since atheism is a religion. Atheism is inconsistent with all religions. There is inconsistency and there is inconsistency. This is a strong inconsistency much like a rejection of hypocrisy with solidarity is a strong inconsistency. We can live with the weak inconsistencies.

Secularism is not the solution to the problem. There is another solution candidate which is known as compromise which I believe is the road that was taken by Freemasonry. Modern politics, in the United States at least, is broken.

Failure to strive to achieve a balance is a sign as well that the actors are atheists and have only given lip service to their faith if they have professed a faith.

it is not necessary that a government has to be atheist if it is secular. because it does not deny god... it just does not interfere with him/her. if it is secular, it just is neutral. which does not make it atheist.
it´s just not taking sides. it does not say there is a god, it does not say there is no god. so it is not atheist. it is maybetheist-and-if-dunno-which.

i myself, after thinking about that, do not consider myself as atheist. i consider myself as maybetheist.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 103

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:11:51 AM

MrBukani

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If God is perfect, it is impossible for God to create something imperfect, you are only as good as your creation.

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Post #: 104

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:15:03 AM

BenevolentM

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Joined: 11/15/2006
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I was going over A Bright Idea page 6 post 109. Some of the posts in that thread were nicely fact filled and there was lots of intelligent discussion. One of the problems that I confront is the belief that only humble arguments filled with detail are valid. A significant problem stems from the overturning of the geocentrism model of the universe centuries ago. My arguments are reminiscent to those that were advanced by Aristotle. I believe I know how to address this problem. It will likely be an uphill battle due the amount of prejudice I will have to overcome. There are a lot of people who have built their careers on nonsense and I will have to unseat these people.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 105

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:29:15 AM

BenevolentM

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Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

If God is perfect, it is impossible for God to create something imperfect, you are only as good as your creation.

I have already done work on this problem interestingly enough. It is hard enough just to get what I've written here across let alone explain this to everyone. Man, give me a break! Be reasonable. You're a sadist! That was meant as a joke.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 106

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:31:42 AM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
I have already done work on this problem interestingly enough. It is hard enough just to get what I've written here across let alone explain this to everyone.

Why is theodicy hard to explain?
That's a daft argument the Catholic church has been dumbing down for the hard of thinking since before muslims were invented.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 107

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:40:02 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

No This is being a sadist

Is the bible historically accurate?
It cant be all fiction?
How many opposing historical accounts exist?
Why mix fiction and fact?
How to seperate fiction from fact?

Why does Jesus talks of love and God talks of fear?
What did Jesus learn of the world views?
Was Socrates influenced by Buddha?
Did Jesus know of greek philosophy?
What philosophy was there before the greeks?
Is buddhism a philosophy?
When did chinese knowledge come to the west?

Who profits most of religion?
How do I make men fight my war?
How many wars were not fought under the religious banner?

Did Mozes really need to talk to God to write down ten commandments?
Did Mozes think before he went up the mountain that stealing was good?

Who introduced monotheism first?
monotheism versus polytheism?
Is there any atheism in prehistory?

Why is God a man?
Why did he make a man first?
Why take the cross a symbol of death to represent the light?
Priests have been guides for the people, how can I trust someone's opinion who does not have first hands on experience about marriage?
If we are born with sin there is no innocence?
Why did God choose the jews to be his people?

Why is it called the dark ages
Why did the catholics inherit the roman empirical titles.
What if Jesus was just a man and he looks down right now on a billion people who venerate him like God. How would Jesus feel about that?
Why is Jesus the son of God, what purpose does that serve
Who decided that Jesus is the son of God

Why do women believe more
Who has the moral highground, man or woman
Why do you believe what you believe. Your faith depends on where you were born.
Whats the difference between the 3 faiths
Why does every faith fragment as soon as its launched

Who taught Jesus
Who taught Mohammed (besides God)
Who taught Moses
How is knowledge passed down to the PP

What is the end of the BigBang theory?
What alternative scientific creation theories exist?
Space Time and Matter?
Space is dependent on time or vice versa?
Is Space considered matter?
Is timetravel possible?

Is God a good and wise father?
Did God create man in his own image?
Is God perfect?
Why would God create something imperfect?
Who created God?
Who or what is God?
What languages did the prophets/philosophers spoke?
Why did the P/P did not write themselves?
Is the vatican library a public domain?
Where does the roman catholic dress code come from?
Can we test texts to what the P/P really said and what is questionable?
How many contradictions are there in scripture?

What is a soul?
How do we prove an afterlife?
What is good to bad?
What is wrong to right?

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 108

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:45:20 AM

BenevolentM

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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Why is theodicy hard to explain?
That's a daft argument the Catholic church has been dumbing down for the hard of thinking since before muslims were invented.

Because I am discussing my work. I am not regurgitating stuff that was invented since before ... . It is personally important to me that my work should not deviate from the teachings of the Church. If you are willing and enable to enlighten me as to what as you put it "daft argument the Catholic church has been dumbing down for the hard of thinking since before" I would appreciate it. I'm just a humble mystic.

I am not interested in politics per se. I am not interested in what is usually sufficient to win converts. I want the truth man. If you help me find it, I would regard that as a good thing. I will even give you a blessing.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 109

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:46:07 AM

Kainundeva

Posts: 79
Joined: 2/12/2012
Status: offline

42

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 110

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 6:47:18 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

You were doing fine until the "blessing" thing.

I will merely suggest that you google teodicy and confirm that you're reinventing a wheel that even Terry Gilliam has taken the piss out of...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 111

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 8:07:53 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kainundeva

42

I thought it was 43, but maybe you're right before you posted it was 42.

(in reply to Kainundeva)

Post #: 112

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:08:14 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

It looks like Moonhead is taking me to school.

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy Retrieved 15 March 2012

The term theodicy has no universally agreed upon definition, but usually refers to an attempt to resolve the evidential problem of evil and reconcile God's traditional characteristics of omnibenevolence, omnipotence and omniscience (all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing) with the occurrence of evil in the world.

On Terry Gilliam what I got was that he is a member of the Monty Python comedy troupe. I gather from what you are saying is try not to blunder in such a way that all one need do is make a reference to a Monty Python skit to undermine my credibility.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 113

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:16:01 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

This must be your list of everything you have wanted to ask God. "How many contradictions are there in scripture?" That is an interesting question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Is the bible historically accurate?
It cant be all fiction?
How many opposing historical accounts exist?
Why mix fiction and fact?
How to seperate fiction from fact?

Why does Jesus talks of love and God talks of fear?
What did Jesus learn of the world views?
Was Socrates influenced by Buddha?
Did Jesus know of greek philosophy?
What philosophy was there before the greeks?
Is buddhism a philosophy?
When did chinese knowledge come to the west?

Who profits most of religion?
How do I make men fight my war?
How many wars were not fought under the religious banner?

Did Mozes really need to talk to God to write down ten commandments?
Did Mozes think before he went up the mountain that stealing was good?

Who introduced monotheism first?
monotheism versus polytheism?
Is there any atheism in prehistory?

Why is God a man?
Why did he make a man first?
Why take the cross a symbol of death to represent the light?
Priests have been guides for the people, how can I trust someone's opinion who does not have first hands on experience about marriage?
If we are born with sin there is no innocence?
Why did God choose the jews to be his people?

Why is it called the dark ages
Why did the catholics inherit the roman empirical titles.
What if Jesus was just a man and he looks down right now on a billion people who venerate him like God. How would Jesus feel about that?
Why is Jesus the son of God, what purpose does that serve
Who decided that Jesus is the son of God

Why do women believe more
Who has the moral highground, man or woman
Why do you believe what you believe. Your faith depends on where you were born.
Whats the difference between the 3 faiths
Why does every faith fragment as soon as its launched

Who taught Jesus
Who taught Mohammed (besides God)
Who taught Moses
How is knowledge passed down to the PP

What is the end of the BigBang theory?
What alternative scientific creation theories exist?
Space Time and Matter?
Space is dependent on time or vice versa?
Is Space considered matter?
Is timetravel possible?

Is God a good and wise father?
Did God create man in his own image?
Is God perfect?
Why would God create something imperfect?
Who created God?
Who or what is God?
What languages did the prophets/philosophers spoke?
Why did the P/P did not write themselves?
Is the vatican library a public domain?
Where does the roman catholic dress code come from?
Can we test texts to what the P/P really said and what is questionable?
How many contradictions are there in scripture?

What is a soul?
How do we prove an afterlife?
What is good to bad?
What is wrong to right?

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 114

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:31:53 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

I dont think God will answer me.

Its just a little list I made up for a thesis some time ago.
Kind of a balancing between science, religion and philosophy.

I didnt take the time yet to really put it in an orderly fashion.

I kinda like the question about Moses goin up the mountain to recieve the ten commandments.
Its always been a biggie for me. Like do you really think that without any of the 3 books people would not attest to these?

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/15/2012 10:35:59 AM >

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 115

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:38:40 AM

MrBukani

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Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

The contradiction is to eliminate the twists, later/post writers put on the books.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 116

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:43:42 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Why do you believe what you believe. Your faith depends on where you were born.
Whats the difference between the 3 faiths
Why does every faith fragment as soon as its launched

By 3 faiths you must mean the three Abrahamic Religions: "The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam."

Why does every faith fragment as soon as its launched? The obvious answer seems to be, it is almost impossible for this not to happen. Just look at what the Church had to do to retain its integrity. In the long run this tendency to fragment does appear to be problematic. Religions do seem to struggle against this tendency. The cost of survival is often high. So what you must be asking is, Was it really worth it? This question is strongly related to other sorts of life questions, however, which trivializes the question's alleged significance. Was getting up in the morning worth it? Was starting a family worth it? Survival involves struggle. The question also appears to have another aspect. If the natural tendency is to fragment, why not just let it fragment?

Why do you believe what you believe. Your faith depends on where you were born. It seems like you are indirectly asking why believe in Jesus if you were born in India and raised in the Hindu faith.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 117

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:52:42 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

All my questions are personally super imposed, since my knowledge is very limited of course.

I wonder about the fragmentation in the abrahamic faiths in relation to others. Like egyptian, babylonian, celtic, did those faiths fragment also. And to be precise, so fast?

And the location question is one that has come up in discussions with friends. It is pretty confronting to personal perception.
Plus it just is to most.
Since the 3 big ones are very simular in origin.
It is easy to imagine how personal your perception really is.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/15/2012 10:55:33 AM >

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 118

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 10:53:28 AM

BenevolentM

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Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

Given the state of the world, I think it may be pointless to deliver an argument that is easily dismissed.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 119

RE: Benevolent's Taxonomy of Atheism - 3/15/2012 11:06:30 AM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

Look at Ireland, you are either born a protestant or catholic depending on your family.
So it can hit real close at home as well.
And like you said yourself, why would we fragment, when it is much easier not to.
Answer is probably the state of control when religion and satan sorry state

were still one.
Hence why many theologists state religion should only be a personal thing.
When you organize it, it will lead to war.
Thats why a lot of people see the vatican not as a church, but a warmachine to control souls.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 3/15/2012 11:07:49 AM >

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 120

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