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RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:15:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No you think it is not about voter fraud... I think it is reasonable precaution if crafted properly...Better watch out... those mean old boogiemen Republicans are recording your posts now...you will be audited...

There has always been documented voter fraud...especially in my city, by both republicans and democrats, and anything that stops or slows it down is worth trying. Maybe some new ideas are warranted...I'm all for them...if you have any.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:25:20 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Stern I think there is a real problem with voter fraud in this country...I am all for alternate better ideas...do you have any?


Yeah ... Crack down on voter fraud where it really resides, in the boards of election and secretary of state offices. In Florida, one of my brother's last assignments, after tasking himself off the protection function of his agency. was to investigate fraud in the florida elections. And never mind fucking chads and specious acorn crap, he and his team came up with things that ACTUALLY MATTERED. Like the fact that someone in the Governor's office ordered up a bunch "safety checks" near all the polls in Dade county. And there were other things, but since the are not matters of public record and probably nothing I can offer the precious LINK
Now I'm no expert on being Black or Hispanic like you seem to be. Nut I'll approach it from the perspective of having been a deadhead for 30+ years and say that if I were going somewhere to do something 'civic' in nature and the man thanked me in advance by shoving cops in my face, I might say fuck it.and not play ball.

It's not an army of illegal aliens and dead people Butch... It's the appointed and elected officials and their practices. And you can't fix them with proper ID

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:32:41 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, and it's ELECTION FRAUD... that's the proper term... voter fraud implies there is some kind of massive fraud where like a significant number of people are voting two or more times... that is laughable.
They keys to election fraud are to keep the opposition away from the polls and then tamper with the count.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:35:11 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		LOL. Since you can't trust the servers, what makes you think that checking ID's is worthwhile?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:39:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am all for it Stern...If that happened in Missouri the opposing party would not let it rest. So what is wrong with both measures?

Say from the time the law is passed only new registrations or change of address would need the photo ID. Those already registered voters would not need them. Since it would be easy for the required ID organizations to add a photo there would be no problem...at least in Missouri with its existing voting requirements. Over time all voters would have a photo ID with little inconvenience.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:42:05 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		MEANWHILE, some IT tech inserts 8000 votes without you ever knowing because the computers are a fucking joke....

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:44:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Thats a whole different issue but we all worry about that...all parties

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:47:59 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And there's another 11,000 votes inserted into the database... Now, what were y'all dicking around worrying about again?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:49:16 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Another 3272 records were just inserted without any audit trail by some random IT tech.....

Now, what was the point of all this arguing again...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 6:50:49 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Well you may have to show a little proof there son...you can say anything but this type of accusation needs meat...and a different thread because it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:03:59 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I am all for it Stern...If that happened in Missouri the opposing party would not let it rest. So what is wrong with both measures?


SIMPLE ... ONE is REFORM (kicking out crooks)... and the other is HARASSMENT of people trying to exercise a right. '
I have NEVER seen documented evidence where actual "physical voters" were the problem in measurable fraud. The problem is the back end of the process.
Ask Fargle to expand upon his statement he is FAR more gifted in the area of how the actual machinery can be manipulated in UNIX and (probably) OS400 environments than I. If you REALLY want the answer, you'll ask the question.
I would like to believe you will.


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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:05:57 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

There has always been documented voter fraud...especially in my city, by both republicans and democrats, and anything that stops or slows it down is worth trying.


Here's your state:

http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/case_studies_by_state/

Missouri, 2000

The 2000 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. Many of these fraud claims were later used to support the call for restrictive ID requirements. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only six substantiated cases of Missouri votes cast by ineligible voters, knowingly or unknowingly, except for those votes permitted by court order. The six cases were double votes by four voters -- two across state lines and two within Missouri -- amounting to an overall rate of 0.0003%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Continue reading "Missouri, 2000" »

Missouri, 2001

The St. Louis primary election for mayor is generally considered the guarantor of success in the general election. In 2001, various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. Many of these fraud claims were later used to support the call for restrictive ID requirements. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded absolutely no substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted. Accordingly, none of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Continue reading "Missouri, 2001" »

Missouri, 2004

The 2004 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. At the same time, Missouri citizens were debating a proposal to require restrictive identification of each voter at the polls, and the fraud claims were used to support the call for ID. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only two substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted -- two voters, each voting twice. This amounts to a rate of 0.0001%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Continue reading "Missouri, 2004" »

Missouri, 2006

The 2006 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. At the same time, Missouri citizens were debating a proposal to require restrictive identification of each voter at the polls, and the fraud claims were used to support the call for ID. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded absolutely no substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted. Accordingly, none of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Continue reading "Missouri, 2006" »


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:06:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I see we will not agree... My proposal above would not be harassment in my opinion...but then again it is not the bill we were talking about either.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:17:13 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		If you run a search on fraud in Missouri yours is only one... there are many many more that support it.

HERE is one.
and ANOTHER

one MORE
This is the St Louis board of elections... a Democratic stronghold...not Republicans..so your link is wrong.

There are many more...we could go on and on but people have gone to jail in Missouri for voter fraud.
To say voter fraud is inconsequential is not only wrong but dangerous.

But please tell me what is so wrong and unfair about what I proposed? It is different than Texas but would help to minimize fraud with few problems.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/14/2012 7:30:31 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:45:16 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I see we will not agree... My proposal above would not be harassment in my opinion...but then again it is not the bill we were talking about either.


Provide me with this data if you really want buy-in from me. Show me when your id law was enacted. Show me what the voter turnout (overall) was in the presidential and gubernatorial elections before and after that date.
I would at least reconsider my thinking on it if you could show how there has been no impact or positive impact. Otherwise it's just making it harder for poor people who can't tell their boss "please keep me on the clock while I go register to vote" .... cause with the poor IT CAN COM DOWN TO THAT

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 7:50:14 PM   
nighthawk3569


Posts: 283
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now why should blacks Hispanics and the poor have trouble getting a photo ID...are you saying they are too stupid or something...Come on there is nothing wrong with a photo ID law. To me as long as it is spelled out where an ID can be obtained and it is free then what is the problem?

Butch


Not stupid...apathetic. Rather 'beat the system'...by crying 'prejudice'... than work with the system.
'hawk

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 8:09:36 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		You are talking about ID required to REGISTER, the TX bill is ID to VOTE--there is a difference.

In PA, no ID is required. Ever. When a person registers to vote, the elections office mails that person a "voter ID card"--which isn't even needed to vote. If the person does not exist, no longer lives at the address on the registration, or the address is bogus, the PO does not forward, but returns to sender-the elections office and that name is then taken off the rolls. When I go to my polling place, I state my name, sign on the dotted line and vote. It is quick, efficient and private.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 8:16:56 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		Keith Olbermann did an interview last night on this with Heather McGhee (whomever she is, I'd never heard of her before).

They had some astonishing numbers:

Texas' own data shows that Hispanic voters are at least 47%--and at least 120%--more likely to not have the valid ID. That would make more than 600,000 currently registered voters ineligible to exercise their constitutional right to vote.

For some people, it would be a 175 mile round trip to obtain the required ID.

The TX AG has bragged that in the past decade there have been 50 cases of election fraud of any kind.

So...TX wants to deny 600,000 voters their rights due to 50 cases of fraud in THE PAST DECADE!!

http://current.com/shows/countdown/blog/heather-mcghee-weighs-in-on-rulings-that-protect-voters-rights-in-texas-and-wisconsin


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 8:57:44 PM   
SpiritedRadiance


Posts: 1341
Joined: 3/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now why should blacks Hispanics and the poor have trouble getting a photo ID...are you saying they are too stupid or something...Come on there is nothing wrong with a photo ID law. To me as long as it is spelled out where an ID can be obtained and it is free then what is the problem?

Butch

quote:

owed to vote, vote. It has always been about PREVENTING those who are legally allowed to vote from actually exercising their right to vote.


Because a Photo ID in the state of PA is 36.50 Cents, You need to have a birth certificate (15 dollars) And a social security card (free) only 3 dmvs in my area all over 15 miles away have saturday hours, Otherwise its going to the dmv during a normal work day.. meaning lost work..

If I DONT have a car, Or access to one...


Hmm... Do the math there..... THATS what the problem is.

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:19:32 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You have broadband...which is more important?

choices choices.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to SpiritedRadiance)
Profile   Post #: 40
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