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RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:21:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I know...I was asking for ideas... this was mine... a way to help stop voter fraud with photo ID's and still not be a burden on the poor.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:22:09 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Middle-class folks might not realize this, but not everyone has a birth certificate handy,


They should. I'd prefer to know those exercising a right held by citizens of this country are indeed citizens of this country. If they aren't, I don't want them playing a role in my country's election process.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:24:09 PM   
Greywolfe74


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/29/2010
Status: offline 		If they're not responsible enough to keep track of their own birth certificate, they probably aren't capable of voting responsibly either.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:25:50 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well you may have to show a little proof there son...you can say anything but this type of accusation needs meat...and a different thread because it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Butch

Why are you so lazy? I've seen you do this on several issues, most notably one on addiction months ago. Why can't you do some research on your own? Here' I'll help you out...
NEGATIVE VOTES? How Can This Be?


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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:32:44 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolfe74

If they're not responsible enough to keep track of their own birth certificate, they probably aren't capable of voting responsibly either.



It just so happens, that some people are not born in hospitals. If you were born at home, especially if you are elderly, you most likely don't have a birth certificate, as the first link shows. The other links are of other people who have faced problems with voting and the ID requirement. The last happens to be 55 yr. old vet.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/11/1043800/-Our-neighbor-Wisconsin-does-its-best-Tennessee-imitation

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/05/336392/96-year-old-tennessee-woman-denied-voter-id-because-she-didnt-have-her-marriage-license/

http://rt.com/usa/news/vote-tennessee-thompson-veteran-073/


(in reply to Greywolfe74)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/14/2012 9:39:12 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
You give me a link to unsubstantiated maybes and could be’s. The video itself says nothing was proven...but they made up could have happened stories anyway without proof. It was slanted and obviously politically motivated.

If you read my first post to farglebargle you would see where I said we need to worry about fraud that way too but that does not negate voter fraud as well. If there is more then one problem then we need more than one solution. Here we are talking about photo ID's if you want to talk different kinds of fraud start another thread.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 6:21:44 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		FR

This is not about voter fraud. I'm not arguing that some extremely small amount of voter fraud might exist in some areas, but that is not what this is about. Again, if you look historically at voter "requirements" they have always been used to PREVENT people who are legally entitled to vote from actually voting. The "requirements" have never been about voter fraud.

One must also think about what a law says on its face, and HOW exactly a law in enforced. On its face, a law might appear reasonable. But when you peel back the layers, you realize that the actual way that the law will play out will disadvantage certain groups in a way that is unconstitutional. Interfering with someones' constitutional right to vote is unacceptable.

We can spend all day debating about ID - but what is underlying this law is something else entirely. The Justice Dept, looking at it from the perspective of history, has no difficulty in seeing this for exactly what it actually is - not about ID, but about preventing certain types of people from voting. And that is illegal. Period.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 6:29:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		If there is one Elephant in the room that should be noted, it is this:

In the states passing these Voter IDs, we see they are overwhelmingly republican.

So, we are on the horns of a dilemma.

Either the republicans are turning over a new leaf and have decided to quit committing massive elections fraud by cleaning out their multi-voters.  (uhhh, unlikely)

Or the fraudsters, having met with limited success in these areas are in the entire scheme of things, a very low priority, and nearly non-extant.... and this is a 'chickenlittle the sky is falling' ploy to detract from their fiscal and legislative ineptitude.  (seemingly more likely)

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 6:48:51 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If they're not responsible enough to keep track of their own birth certificate, they probably aren't capable of voting responsibly either.


Who the fuck made you Ben Franklin?
Find where it says we're required to 'vote responsibly' or even vote?
It's a RIGHT.
And if there was a REQUIREMENT to vote responsibly there wouldn't be republicans.


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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 7:10:45 AM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greywolfe74

If they're not responsible enough to keep track of their own birth certificate, they probably aren't capable of voting responsibly either.



And therein lies the problem -- "if you aren't good enough in some arbitrary way then you don't have the right to vote" is what ends up happening. That's the unconstitutional part.

(in reply to Greywolfe74)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 7:16:41 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Ha. My official government-issued marriage certificate is in Japanese because I was serving in the USAF in Okinawa when I got married. I'd LOVE to get denied to register to vote because of that. But of course, living in Massachusetts, that won't happen.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/10/05/336392/96-year-old-tennessee-woman-denied-voter-id-because-she-didnt-have-her-marriage-license/

Swept up in the craze of preventing widespread voter fraud that doesn’t actually exist, Tennessee Republicans passed a voter identification law this year that they claimed would put an end to fraud and ensure fair elections. Like similar laws in other states, Tennessee’s version has come under scrutiny from voting rights advocates, civil rights groups like the NAACP and ACLU, and even Democratic senators, who oppose the laws because they will disenfranchise poor, elderly, and minority voters who are less likely to have photo IDs.

The state now has evidence that that will be the case. Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old Chattanooga resident who says she has voted in every election but one since she became eligible to vote, wanted to ensure she’d have the necessary ID to vote in next year’s elections, when Tennessee’s law goes into effect. But when she went to apply for the ID, she was denied, the Chattanooga Times Free Press reports:

That morning, Cooper slipped a rent receipt, a copy of her lease, her voter registration card and her birth certificate into a Manila envelope. Typewritten on the birth certificate was her maiden name, Dorothy Alexander.

“But I didn’t have my marriage certificate,” Cooper said Tuesday afternoon, and that was the reason the clerk said she was denied a free voter ID at the Cherokee Boulevard Driver Service Center.

“I don’t know what difference it makes,” Cooper said.

Cooper doesn’t have a driver’s license — she never learned to drive — and has never needed identification to vote, and her lack of a valid marriage license is likely due to the fact that she’s outlived two husbands

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 7:21:50 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

If they're not responsible enough to keep track of their own birth certificate, they probably aren't capable of voting responsibly either.


I see you missed this part of our other thread: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012

The problem is this: Before the 1970s, many women in rural South Carolina didn't go to hospitals at childbirth. They used midwives. Often, though, midwives did not file birth certificates. Or their information might be wrong, or incomplete.

Going back to correct a name or collect the documents needed to get a delayed birth certificate is time-consuming and expensive.

Joseph and Brenda Williams have plenty of stories about people's birth records: The midwife who tried to sound out the name "Naomi," spelling it "Llnoie"; the child named "Baby Girl Kennedy" because her folks couldn't come up with a first name right away.

Other patients don't have birth certificates at all, simply using the year of their birth, said Joseph Williams, himself delivered by a midwife.

"It's a very common thing," he said, noting that such problems and practices were common throughout the South and involved black and white families alike.

Sure enough, 64 percent of S.C. voters without an ID are white, according to the S.C. Election Commission. About 53 percent are age 45 or older.

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2011/07/18/2283993/sc-husband-and-wife-doctor-couple.html#storylink=cpy

(in reply to Greywolfe74)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 7:30:24 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

In the states passing these Voter IDs, we see they are overwhelmingly republican.



Big surprise, this...


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 7:32:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		begs the question of their apparently massive fraudulent elections, dunnit?  (dunnit is yank version of limey innit, for my friends across the pond)

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/15/2012 7:33:38 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 8:08:11 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		FR

If someone else has addressed this already, forgive me for repeating, but I just do want to clarify one thing.

The way the Constitution was written, and then subsequently amended over time, has extended the right to vote to essentially all people over the age of 18 (independent of religion, wealth, race, gender). In some parts of the country, even non-citizens can vote for local elections (school board, etc.). Voting qualifications are left to the jurisdiction of the states, however, the state laws cannot run afoul of either the Constitution or the Constitutional amendments regarding voting.

Originally, only white, property-owning males of any religion were allowed to vote. And I believe the voting age was 21 (?) because the 18 year old extension was a result of the Vietnam war. Since the original Constitution, constitutional amendments were made to extend the vote to poor whites, all blacks, women, 18 and older.

State laws on voter qualifications cannot run afoul of these extensions. States can place restrictions to vote that do NOT run afoul of the Constitution and the amendments - in other words, the state law must NOT restrict the vote of people of any particular religion, or the poor, blacks, women, young adults. If it can be shown that the EFFECT of enforcing the state law would disadvantage any of these groups then the state law, however reasonable it may seem on its face, is unconstitutional.




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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 8:20:17 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

You have broadband...which is more important?

choices choices.


Man, that's a Fuckin leap.... How do you know how Spirited gets on the internet? Maybe she gets on at work, the library, or the neighbor's kind enough to let her wifi onto their router. OR MAYBE, she's got school aged kids and "no internet " is not an option.I can think of half a dozen scenarios that nullify your inference. And not having discretionary income doesn't mean you're some stereotypical 'freeloader'. like some of the cons here and elsewhere love to make out to carve higher ground out of thin suppositions.
Personally, I think you owe the lady an apology.


< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 3/15/2012 8:23:20 AM >

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 9:17:24 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		This is where I think you are wrong...at least about the motivation. There are two ways of looking at this issue.

The first and most prevalent here is this is a Republican plot to limit Democratic voters…This view is usually held by liberal Democrats.

The second is many Republicans, with history on their side, think voter fraud is prevalent amoung some groups of Democratic voters. This group is usually the less educated and inter city populations…This view is usually held by Republicans…mostly county and out state.

I believe the second is closer to the truth…but it is exaggerated and not as big a problem as Republican campaign managers would have them believe.

You must remember 55,000,000 Republicans and many independents and some Democrats tend to believe there is often voter fraud and they want assurances it will not influence an election. Now rant all you want but with that many people wanting changes it will happen and it is not an evil secret Republican scheme to hold down poor, black, and Hispanic voters.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/15/2012 10:13:09 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 9:19:17 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Nor do you know if she can afford the $36.50 and a ride to the DMV or post office.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/15/2012 9:20:13 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 9:40:23 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The Governor of Texas should do exactly what Obama has often done when he hasn't agreed with Congress...issue an Executive Order, in this case, declaring the DoJ of no consequence just like Obama has done to Congress on more than one occassion.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Justice Dept. blocks Texas photo ID law - 3/15/2012 9:54:01 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		can you get some numbers, and post them here on those executive orders where he declared the congress of the united states of no consequence?   I would bet that would have him out of office, since he did not uphold and defend the constitution in that matter.

Hell ----any old birther, neo-con or teabagger could point that one out to a hot lawyer lookin to make a name for themselves.  He would be outta here clown, TODAY!!!! 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 60
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