quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Damm but you are a limber sort of guy,watching you twist yourself into all sort of contortionist positions in order to somehow defend the indefensible would be amusing,were it not so damm telling.
Do the flip test pal,make it a white "kid"(or young man since you seem to object so strongly to the use of kid,while on that subject,let me ask you something do black youths become men at an earlier age than white youths ?.Does it have something to do with a threat quotion ?)and a black man who gets out of his car.
White kid winds up shot in the chest.
Are we even having a discussion here,are just waiting for the death sentence to be imposed?

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How am I admitting my logic doesnt hold up? the shooting took place 'some distance from the car' Did they fucking TELEPORT? Either Zimmerman pursued him or the kid dragged him out of the car and down the street?

You're admitting your logic doesn't hold up because in an earlier post, you said you'd run from someone wielding a gun. However, in this case, there was a physical altercation. Meaning, most likely, that Martin did not run back home and call the cops (evidenced by there being no 911 call by him or his parents). So, if there was a physical altercation between a "140 lbs kid" and this man with a gun, either A) Zimmerman didn't have his gun out while following Martin or B) Martin was a threat, not to mention insane, because he confronted an armed man with only candy and a can of tea in his hand.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for "pursued to contact" Zim was in the car. The fight and death occurred some distance away. How do you get there without PURSUING as he had been told not to do by the dispatcher.

Actually, in the tapes, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, not pursuing, and he said yes.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You've claimed ceveral times to be CHL qualified. It's a shame but a few always slip thru the cracks.

And it's a shame you can't disagree with someone without resorting to attacking them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Bottom line. It isn't self defense if you chase someone down.

Bottom line: following and chasing are not the same thing. (Really? you've gone from pursuing to chasing now? Sheesh.)

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
When someone runs away, you have defended yourself.

And when someone initiates a physical confrontation with an armed man, they are not running away.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59
In most states.....one MUST retreat from a criminal and can only use deadly force if there`s no escape.

quote:

It's not a stretch to say there's no evidence to negate the claim of self defense.

quote:

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Actually, according to florida's case-law:

quote:

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Kid didn't even have a garden hose...

If an repelling an attack with a garden hose doesn't rise to self-defense, then repelling an attack where the attacker is bare handed certainly doesn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


You're admitting your logic doesn't hold up because in an earlier post, you said you'd run from someone wielding a gun. However, in this case, there was a physical altercation. Meaning, most likely, that Martin did not run back home and call the cops (evidenced by there being no 911 call by him or his parents). So, if there was a physical altercation between a "140 lbs kid" and this man with a gun, either A) Zimmerman didn't have his gun out while following Martin or B) Martin was a threat, not to mention insane, because he confronted an armed man with only candy and a can of tea in his hand.

Actually, in the tapes, the dispatcher asked him if he was following, not pursuing, and he said yes.



Bottom line: following and chasing are not the same thing. (Really? you've gone from pursuing to chasing now? Sheesh.)

And when someone initiates a physical confrontation with an armed man, they are not running away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
In most states.....one MUST retreat from a criminal and can only use deadly force if there`s no escape.

Florida isn't one of those states.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
In most states.....one MUST retreat from a criminal and can only use deadly force if there`s no escape.

Florida isn't one of those states.

Darque is correct in this. You may stand your ground in FL. It's been that way for at least 2 decades.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
In most states.....one MUST retreat from a criminal and can only use deadly force if there`s no escape.

Florida isn't one of those states.

Darque is correct in this. You may stand your ground in FL. It's been that way for at least 2 decades.

Of course, your 'me-too! circle jerk' might be more effective if you actually provided some evidence to support your claim. And since I've provided a citation showing the deadly force wasn't authorized in this instance, you're really not in any position to say that without refuting my prior claim.

While you're at it, address these too:

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.

790.15 Discharging firearm in public.

790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.

790.153 Tests for impairment or intoxication; right to refuse.

790.155 Blood test for impairment or intoxication in cases of death or serious bodily injury; right to use reasonable force ( my favorite!)

790.29 Paramilitary training; teaching or participation prohibited.

and

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.--The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
That's right, I said I'd run from someone with a gun. I also said "If he caught up with me..............." Oh, you conveeeeniently forgot about that. Nice try at twisting.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You claim a distinction between following and pursuing. If you are pursuing someone, are you not also following? It's kinda hard to pursue and NOT follow. That is truly funny logic. "Well officer, I pursued him by NOT following him"

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
As for initiating a confrontation. the confrontation was initiated when Zimmerman got out of the car and approached.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You mentioned in an earlier post about the homeless guy running toward you across a parking lot and how you would have shot him had you been carrying.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
If you're walking back from the store in an unfamilar neighborhood in the dark and you are carrying as you are allowed to and some guy gets out of his car and comes your way yelling at you, are you going to draw your firearm?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
You have already indicated multiple times that you feel you have a duty to shoot without warning. A 240# hispanic guy comes at you yelling at you, are you going to blow him away? After all, HE is the agressor.

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ORIGINAL: erieangel
Wow Darque, you are afraid of men running in dark parking lots?? You'd better not come to my neighborhood, then. We have a saying around here--"Once you show fear, you become a victim". The trick is to never show fear, but to keep an eye out.

Years ago, I used to walk these streets at 2-3 in the morning, after getting off work several blocks away and no bus service that time of night. I was accosted more often AT work than on my way home FROM work.