Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive?

Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (Full Version)

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menowimp -> Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 4:20:02 AM)
This is something that has always bothered me a bit in BDSM. X is whipping Y. So the obvious impression is that X is the dominatory personality and Y is the submissive personality. However, let's put it into real context. We don't go around hitting each other as a normal rule. Therefore the only reason X is hitting Y in this case is because Y enjoys being hit. So X is hitting Y to satisfy Y's enjoyment. So who is serving whom?

MrBukani -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 4:33:10 AM)
I started this same discussion in a thread called master vs slave. Prepare for the onslaught![:D] But I kinda agree here on some level. They said I switch.[:D] Its sort of a contradiction that will lead some to say you start out with false ideas. I tried to dig the thread up but it seems lost.

cincydom1958 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 4:35:17 AM)
Master and Slave are simply lovers. Philisophically there can be no master slave in the modern free world. There CAN be two people who organize their companionship so that one is Master and one is Slave. I think it is more a beautiful thing, than a confusing thing.

MrBukani -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 4:49:41 AM)
Master is servant page 88 I found it pffff Have a nice read.[;)] Always nice to see what will happen next.

DrkOne -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:06:44 AM)
Fact is we all serve one anothers needs, wants, desires, what have you. By serving yourself, you serve another. Don't worry about it too much and enjoy yourselves. It'll just give you a headache

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:11:20 AM)
FR~ Maybe Y puts up with whipping because X is a sadist. Maybe X and Y got together because they are both into S&M and they fit like hand in glove? Trying to guage all pairings by one idea is useless. Maybe X only whips Y as a reward for when Y serves X othertimes, maybe X and Y only do this in public to teach others and it serves no function other than to confuse you? D/s isn't a one way street, both serve eachothers wants/needs to some degree, otherwise it would be real slavery, not a relationship.

Madame4a -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:19:39 AM)
Depends on the relationship.. and frankly, you can't just assume that if X is doing the whipping (an odd term I never use) ... that equals what you said.. they could be friends, they could be Top and bottom... or a submissive or service bottom or even service Top could be providing a service. I'm going to suggest from your various posts that you get out a bit more and see that your stereotypes aren't always going to hold up. quote: ORIGINAL: menowimp This is something that has always bothered me a bit in BDSM. X is whipping Y. So the obvious impression is that X is the dominatory personality and Y is the submissive personality. However, let's put it into real context. We don't go around hitting each other as a normal rule. Therefore the only reason X is hitting Y in this case is because Y enjoys being hit. So X is hitting Y to satisfy Y's enjoyment. So who is serving whom?

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:20:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: menowimp X is whipping Y. So the obvious impression is that X is the dominatory personality and Y is the submissive personality. However, let's put it into real context. We don't go around hitting each other as a normal rule. Therefore the only reason X is hitting Y in this case is because Y enjoys being hit. So X is hitting Y to satisfy Y's enjoyment. So who is serving whom? You really have too much time on your hands. Firstly, most (I'm not going to say "all") successful relationships are mutually beneficial. Your premise seems to imply that it's not possible that X is hitting Y to satisfy X's enjoyment. In my scenario, Y's enjoyment is a result, but not the driving force behind X's decision. In other words, there is no causality. Therefore, X is serving X, and Y's is also benefiting from X's enjoyment. In most D/s or M/s dynamics, there is going to be a bit of mutual enjoyment. However, X also has the right to do things that Y may not enjoy, or to force Y to do things that Y may not want to do. Or X may do things that Y enjoys, but X only does them when X wants to. So once again, X is in charge. No offense, but if you spent more time actually doing this stuff, you wouldn't have to spend so much time thinking about stuff that really doesn't matter. In other words, if you and your partner are both having a good time, then it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of your activities. So stop thinking about playing, and start actually playing. When you do that, most of your questions will magically answer themselves. [;)]

kitkat105 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:21:51 AM)
Just because X is a sadist, doesn't mean Y is a masochist. Y may be comply with the activity due to be submissive or a slave.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:26:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Just because X is a sadist, doesn't mean Y is a masochist. Y may be comply with the activity due to be submissive or a slave. Exactly! I am not a masochist, yet I have participated in many activities in which pain was inflicted upon me simply to satisfy a Domme's sadistic desires.

Madame4a -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:31:29 AM)
Yay! quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Just because X is a sadist, doesn't mean Y is a masochist. Y may be comply with the activity due to be submissive or a slave. Exactly! I am not a masochist, yet I have participated in many activities in which pain was inflicted upon me simply to satisfy a Domme's sadistic desires.

MrBukani -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:43:22 AM)
Yep there you go some slaves do things they dont enjoy. Maybe they dont even enjoy serving their master or mistress. Now that would be oldschool roman slavery. Some slaves dont want to be loved either, just used. To each their own pleasures.

kitkat105 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 5:56:27 AM)
If you do enjoy it, that's just a bonus. [;)]

MissImmortalPain -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 6:04:25 AM)
In my case I am X and the livin is y. I can assure you he hates pain. He hates being hit, whipped, poked, anything of the sort. I do it anyway, mostly because I think it's funny. We all for the most part do things for our own reasons. I think you are trying to hard to understand everyone else when the only thing you really need to understand is yourself and the other person, or persons, you are in actual realationships with.

chatterbox24 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 6:33:26 AM)
someone else's pleasure might be someone else's pain. Thats what is fun about the lifestyle. Its so varied from relationship to relationship. Someone elses view on the same subject, there is usually another relationship that is on the other side of the spectrum as to why they do the things they do. Is a Dom less a Dom if they give pleasure along with discipline? SOunds pretty well rounded to me but then again thats my interpretation.

OsideGirl -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 7:19:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: menowimp This is something that has always bothered me a bit in BDSM. X is whipping Y. So the obvious impression is that X is the dominatory personality and Y is the submissive personality. However, let's put it into real context. We don't go around hitting each other as a normal rule. Therefore the only reason X is hitting Y in this case is because Y enjoys being hit. So X is hitting Y to satisfy Y's enjoyment. So who is serving whom? BDSM = bondage/discipline-Sado-masochism. You can engage in BDSM and never engage in D/s. You can engage in D/s and never engage in BDSM. You're equating an act with orientation.

menowimp -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 8:37:46 AM)
I you don't enjoy it you won't be doing it. I quite liked LadyNTrainer's response except that in the case of a dog or a car they won't leave you. A sub can usually walk out of the relationship if they are not getting what they want out of it. Having thought it over, where the "top" is really in control over the "bottom" is in the detail, otherwise it really doesn't work. If the bottom is "calling the shots", telling the top where to strike and how, they are really controlling the whole situation. This might work for a "domme in training" where they are temporarily a "subs" role to their trainer but in session it just doesn't really work properly.

Madame4a -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 8:56:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: menowimp Having thought it over, where the "top" is really in control over the "bottom" is in the detail, otherwise it really doesn't work. If the bottom is "calling the shots", telling the top where to strike and how, they are really controlling the whole situation. While it varies, you're assuming there is a power exchange in Top bottom dynamics.. and there isn't always... there is likely to be power exchange in D/s dynamics... most likely a Dominant will be in control... a Top isn't always going to be in that type of situation...uhmmm... you do need to get out more and learn if all of the complexities of relationships are of interest to you and.. on the "if you don't enjoy it... " ... its not really that simple and doesn't always apply in all situations

GreedyTop -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 9:30:41 AM)
IME: I have bottomed as a maso purely for the satisfaction of the top. I have topped purely for the satisfaction of the bottom. I have done both purely for MY satisfaction. I have done both for the others satisfaction. so. as others have said: get thee out and EXPERIENCE stuff without clinging tightly to pre-conceived notions.

Greta75 -> RE: Whipping, etc. Domination of submissive? (3/16/2012 9:31:37 AM)
I don't know what the issue is here. Is it a problem that Y enjoys whippings? If so, then maybe X needs a sub who does not enjoy whipping, but tolerates it because of their kink of submission. There are subs who endure whippings even though they hate it. In this scenerio if that is what X requires, then..., that's what X needs to find.

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