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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 8:54:39 PM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		God.

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 8:59:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

God.



quoted for the record

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 9:01:42 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Unfortunately, there is no answer. That the current president has violated the constitution and the war powers act (put there to allow more leeway to the C-I-C so that he need not "telegraph his punch" to enemies) is fact. There's no disputing it.

I'll dispute your nonsense.
There is not a single word in the Constitution limiting the President's use of the military.
The War Powers Act is unconstitutional, Congress does not have the power to limit the President in that way. Therefore the President cannot violate a law that has no effect.


http://www.justice.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm

Quite an amazing read, actually. even though this is in response to actions in Afghanistan, it is informative in that pretty much all the power given to the CIC in the Constitution is to be used to protect American Citizens or American land. So, which was Obama doing in Libya or Uganda?

That's an opinion by the GWB DoJ OLC. The same people who said crushing children's anatomy was a good idea.

In reality the Constitution places no limits on the Presidents use of the military. Congress has only one recourse, not paying for it.

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 9:33:31 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Congress has only one recourse, not paying for it.



You forgot impeachment, followed by trial, and expulsion from the office, which is odd, since that's kind of the subject of the thread.

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 10:04:43 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Congress has only one recourse, not paying for it.



You forgot impeachment, followed by trial, and expulsion from the office, which is odd, since that's kind of the subject of the thread.

Impeachment is for high crimes and misdemeanors. While that means anything the House says it means I hope we will never see such an attempt unless the House has already cut off funding as a first step.

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/19/2012 10:09:57 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


Impeachment is for high crimes and misdemeanors.



I'm pretty sure the lawyers of the House and Senate could draft something on usurping a power that is granted exclusively to Congress.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/19/2012 10:10:18 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 6:07:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Unfortunately, there is no answer. That the current president has violated the constitution and the war powers act (put there to allow more leeway to the C-I-C so that he need not "telegraph his punch" to enemies) is fact. There's no disputing it.

I'll dispute your nonsense.
There is not a single word in the Constitution limiting the President's use of the military.
The War Powers Act is unconstitutional, Congress does not have the power to limit the President in that way. Therefore the President cannot violate a law that has no effect.

http://www.justice.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm
Quite an amazing read, actually. even though this is in response to actions in Afghanistan, it is informative in that pretty much all the power given to the CIC in the Constitution is to be used to protect American Citizens or American land. So, which was Obama doing in Libya or Uganda?

Helping people who need/needed help.


Really? So, why haven't we gone into Syria? Why haven't we gone into Iran? Why are we allowing the Chinese government to not protect their citizens? Why didn't we go to Darfur? Why are we waiting for pirates to take hostages instead of going after them and rooting them out? Why didn't we help the citizens of the USSR when the Soviet empire was crushing them?

And, "helping people who need/needed help" isn't exactly an allowable use of the US military when the people being helped aren't American citizens.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 6:11:18 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

God.



quoted for the record



Can you imagine the outrage if a republican had said something like that?

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 6:27:25 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
So, Ken, as you try to shift the focal bar with your limited statement above, what is unconstitutional is for the President to make the declaration of war, by formal note, or by remote control deed, and advise Congress about having done it. That's what Obama's Secretary of Defense is saying this administration has the authority to do. That doesn't work for me.


President Obama didn't make a declaration of war. According to the War Powers Resolution, the President is allowed to insert troops into battle prior to notifying Congress. The President has 48 hours after troops engage to notify Congress and it has to contain a provision either for a formal DoW from Congress, or Congressional approval for continued action. Without either, the troops are required to pull out in 60 days unless a 30 day extension is requested (and granted) for more time for the President to make his/her case for Congressional approval/DoW.

What Obama did in Libya (I don't know what the timeline was regarding notifications, etc. for the Uganda stuff) was completely legal, except for the reason for use of the military. He initiated military action and told Congress within 48 hours. The problem with Libya is that there was no reason for him to do so outside of UN/NATO request. Libya hadn't attacked the US, any US holdings or US citizens. Libya posed no danger at all to US National Security.

The President can send troops into battle, but the list of allowable reasons is small.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 6:35:08 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Unfortunately, there is no answer. That the current president has violated the constitution and the war powers act (put there to allow more leeway to the C-I-C so that he need not "telegraph his punch" to enemies) is fact. There's no disputing it.

I'll dispute your nonsense.
There is not a single word in the Constitution limiting the President's use of the military.
The War Powers Act is unconstitutional, Congress does not have the power to limit the President in that way. Therefore the President cannot violate a law that has no effect.

http://www.justice.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm
Quite an amazing read, actually. even though this is in response to actions in Afghanistan, it is informative in that pretty much all the power given to the CIC in the Constitution is to be used to protect American Citizens or American land. So, which was Obama doing in Libya or Uganda?

That's an opinion by the GWB DoJ OLC. The same people who said crushing children's anatomy was a good idea.
In reality the Constitution places no limits on the Presidents use of the military. Congress has only one recourse, not paying for it.


Did you read the opinion? Did you see the sections of the Constitution in where it was delineated and further supported with references from the Federalist Papers? While I don't dispute that my link was to a Justice Department opinion supporting Bush's actions, the reasoning behind said actions doesn't line up with what President Obama is doing.

If a wrong opinion is reason to ignore all opinions from that same body, should Obama be labeled a racist for his opinions about whites, as detailed in his book?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 6:59:50 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

President Obama didn't make a declaration of war.



He didn't send a formal diplomatic note, DesideriScuri, but he publicly put the red dot on the leader of a sovereign nation, and fired missilies down the line. That's a pretty clear declaration.

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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:07:28 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

failure-in-chief


Oh good grief.



Truth hurts, eh?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:12:30 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		But not an actual declaration....if one is going to argue in legal terms.


As the boards cheif bush-apolgist.....can you tell us why the con-congress hasn`t taken any action?

General reply:

When President Clinton was firing missles down the dine at bin-laden.....we had cons chanting "No war for Monica....no war for Monica"......

Perhaps Clinton should have "declared war" on bin-laden 1st.Then maybe,the cons wouldn`t have been so helpful to that terrorist just prior to 9/11.But that would be giving the cons waaaaayyyy to much credit.





_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:13:36 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Biden, as VP has no power to impeach the president--only Congress can do that.



You, as an Obama minion, either didn't watch, didn't comprehend or chose to ignore the video in the OP.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:20:17 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

failure-in-chief


Oh good grief.



Truth hurts, eh?


So tell us......
What "failure" are you cons talking about......so far......it`s your best kept secret.

I`ll start...


Hasn`t allowed a 9/11 attack on us......like bush did.

Improving the economy where bush tanked it.

Created more jobs in his 1st year than bush`s whole 8.

Got us out of disaster-Iraq and is rapping up Afghanistan.

Saved GM and Detroit.

No one got tortured......no CIA field agents IDs revealed.....no treason commited.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/20/2012 7:21:30 AM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:25:57 AM   
RacerJim


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoreBook

A declaration of war isn't required to send troops to fight somewhere, so the OP's point, like most right-side-of-the-isle anti-Obama garbage, has no relevance or basis in fact, its just the result of being misguided and ill-informed.

The preceding statement represents the views and opinions of the author and the author alone, and should in no way be considered an attempt by the author to define or determine anything for anybody but herself.


A Congressional declaration of war is indeed not required for the president to send troops to fight somewhere, but Congressional authority to do so damn sure is required...either prior to or in a timely manner after sending troops. Like most left-side-of-the-isle pro-Obama garbage, your ignorance of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Act renders your opinion irrelevant.

(in reply to LoreBook)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:27:48 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

... says they lady who obviously didn't watch the video and doesn't understand the point. Hearings are already being held. But, why bother yourself with factual details.

Go back to your "War BY Women".



We're done here.



Michael

Indeed.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:29:06 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

failure-in-chief


Oh good grief.



Truth hurts, eh?


So tell us......
What "failure" are you cons talking about......so far......it`s your best kept secret.

I`ll start...


Hasn`t allowed a 9/11 attack on us......like bush did.

Improving the economy where bush tanked it.

Created more jobs in his 1st year than bush`s whole 8.

Got us out of disaster-Iraq and is rapping up Afghanistan.

Saved GM and Detroit.

No one got tortured......no CIA field agents IDs revealed.....no treason commited.




Delusional at best. Explaining is futile.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:29:35 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Truth hurts ...eh?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: A War That The Press Isn't Talking About. I Wonder ... - 3/20/2012 7:32:18 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Truth hurts ...eh?



What truth? Inquiring minds want to know

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 80
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