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RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/4/2006 6:07:35 PM   
mastrscait


Posts: 18
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Calandra, thanks so much for sharing, of course i thought that would be the case.  i know that it could always be the possiblity.  So far my submission and my play has not crossed the path or the line that would enter that dark unexplored territory.  But then again, can you ever really know when or what might really trigger that moment in time that you can't remember everything.  i am confused with my own possible desire to act this out though.  i have had these fantasies for some time, before i knew that there was anything there.  Yes, according to therapist i am sure the two are linked.  As time has gone buy nothing more has surfaced. i may never remember any more than i already do.  Thank you for sharing with me.
cait

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/4/2006 7:56:12 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan
With that said, the minute Tikk felt the pipe on her legs, she went , well, beserk. At that moment, all I became was an instrument for her to take her rage out on. Which is what I wanted.

There is nothing sexual, in my own eyes, about rape at all. I don't get excited about the possibility of a 'scene' in which it might play a part. If I had not felt that doing this was so important to her own survival; it never would have come into play or into discussion at all. I deal on a daily basis with brutality of all kinds. It's not something that I take lightly, or in jest.


I'm confused and I'm really not trying to be rude or pry. I may be reading your post wrong but I am getting that the re-enactment did not involve sex?

Yes, I wholly agree that rape has very little to do with sex. It is a crime of power and hate. BUT, sex is the weapon used in rape and it is also the reason for the depth of the trauma. Women who have been victims of a beating do not have the same emotional scars as those who have been raped.

If indeed sex was not incorporated in your re-enactment, I am not sure how this would be the cathartic experience you were looking for. Again, I am not trying to be rude...I really am curious as to your thoughts.

One other question if I may....you said that you consulted with specialists...may I ask what kind? Having worked in the sexual abuse field I can not imagine a professional in that area that would ever recommend such an undertaking.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TxBadMan)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 3:28:27 AM   
Gem


Posts: 100
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		Brightest Blessings Sinergy
 
Yes I would say that is right on the money, it is like a piece of you is ripped away, or hidden away, and most of us spend our whole lifetimes looking for the shattered pieces so that we can try and glue things back together.
 
I would say that you give them something very precious, the ability to take control again, it may not pick up any pieces of that shattering, but it goes a long way for them to know that they now have skills that might keep it from happening again.
 
Blessed Be
Gem

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING sorta grey SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 7:46:53 AM   
timeoutgurlie


Posts: 588
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks muchly to those ladies who replied to my question, it was good to see both sides.

I believe I'll still follow through with it at some point, barring that my partner feels it's "right" and makes it happen, for some unknown reason, it just 'feels' like unplanned is the way to go for myself personally.  I was very sorry to read the sadder experiences of the ladies who've posted and hope that since reenactment didn't work, that you will all find some way to make this easier, best wishes

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 8:11:54 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gem
I would say that you give them something very precious, the ability to take control again, it may not pick up any pieces of that shattering, but it goes a long way for them to know that they now have skills that might keep it from happening again.
 


This is very true. Many women feel empowered when they take a course and develop the skills to be more equipped to deal with it. For some, self defense classes fill that need, for others they go the Concealed Weapons route.

It's funny, I've had some of my closest friends, tell me that the fact that it happened to me made them feel more vulnerable. I am not your average kind of gal and can pretty much handle myself in most situations...and if the need for a physical confrontation arises I am fairly well prepared. They tell you to fight. When my rape happened I fought for my life and it damn near got me killed. Part of that is probably just the fact that I was dealing with two attackers. It didn't help me much then but I also realize that I would probably have been much more trouble than I was worth to a single assailant.

You often hear me tell women to get in tune with that little voice in their head and that feeling in their gut. THOSE are our best defenses. If we were all to make an effort to be more consciously aware of our surroundings and listen to our instincts....well...survivors will tell you time and time again that is where they felt they went "wrong".

If you combine those things with the skills that people like Sinergy provide and have thought out plans of action it definitely will give you a confidence boost. I know that after my surgery I had thoughts that I would best most people don't normally have following major surgery. I was very leary about going out in my "weakened state" because I knew that if push were to come to shove I was starting out from a definite disadvantage. The fact that I had a lessened ability to defend myself was more of an issue than I believe it would be for many others.

The one thing that I think that Dominants can do, regardless of whether or not they wish to pursue rape re-enactments, to give their submissives more confidence is to teach them how to defend themselves. Or let them attend a class. Then give them opportunities to sharpen those skills. My ex Master and I used to wrestle and box all the time. We got into primal take down kind of play. I really felt that it helped to keep me on my toes and kept my confidence levels up. A skill is not something that you can keep long without practice.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Gem)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 9:57:19 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I'm confused and I'm really not trying to be rude or pry. I may be reading your post wrong but I am getting that the re-enactment did not involve sex?


No ma'am. And I understand where the confusion comes from. However, to go so far as to actually perform the act on her would have been not only criminal, but also extremely dangerous for her medically, and just wrong on my part. It was never my intention to take it all the way to that point. My sole intention was to get her to a point that she would fight back. If I could not do that, then I would have pulled back immediately.

quote:

Yes, I wholly agree that rape has very little to do with sex. It is a crime of power and hate. BUT, sex is the weapon used in rape and it is also the reason for the depth of the trauma. Women who have been victims of a beating do not have the same emotional scars as those who have been raped. 



Yes, in almost ALL cases the forced sex is a reason for the depth of the trauma. In Tikk's case, it was not the only reason. There were other actions that had been done to her that also contributed. I was focusing on those.
Tikk was 15 when this happened to her. The person who did this, not only used conventional sex, they first ripped her apart with a shotgun and a baseball bat sexually. I focused the whole of the re-enactment on those two, and not on the physical act of the body performing.

quote:

  If indeed sex was not incorporated in your re-enactment, I am not sure how this would be the cathartic experience you were looking for. Again, I am not trying to be rude...I really am curious as to your thoughts.



Yes, this would be hard to understand unless you understand that it was not only the physical act that harmed her; it was her reaction to it afterwards that sent her into the darkness. I wish I could go into exact detail about this, but it is not my place to tell that part; it has to come from her.

quote:

  One other question if I may....you said that you consulted with specialists...may I ask what kind? Having worked in the sexual abuse field I can not imagine a professional in that area that would ever recommend such an undertaking.



And you are correct in your thinking. However, the ones that I consulted with knew, and have known Tikk since she was 10 years old. No, they did not say 'yes, let's do this'. I was not looking for a yes or no with them. I was searching for possible reactions to such a thing happening. They were aware of our relationship, and understood my reasons for asking such questions, but no, they never condoned such an undertaking.

I do not have an email on this site, however, if you would truly like to discuss this in detail, I am more than willing to do so. If you want, feel free to ask Tikkiee for my e-mail, she will give it to you.

_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 10:38:36 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TxBadMan
to go so far as to actually perform the act on her would have been not only criminal, but also extremely dangerous for her medically, and just wrong on my part. It was never my intention to take it all the way to that point. My sole intention was to get her to a point that she would fight back. If I could not do that, then I would have pulled back immediately.

Yes, in almost ALL cases the forced sex is a reason for the depth of the trauma. In Tikk's case, it was not the only reason. There were other actions that had been done to her that also contributed. I was focusing on those.

Tikk was 15 when this happened to her. The person who did this, not only used conventional sex, they first ripped her apart with a shotgun and a baseball bat sexually. I focused the whole of the re-enactment on those two, and not on the physical act of the body performing.

I do not have an email on this site, however, if you would truly like to discuss this in detail, I am more than willing to do so. If you want, feel free to ask Tikkiee for my e-mail, she will give it to you.


I somewhat understand where it is you are coming from. In my rape that occurred when I was just 18, I was violently assaulted both vaginally and anally with a liquor bottle that actually broke off inside my rectum and had to be removed. I still am a bit confused though in regards to the non-sexual aspect of the re-enactment. My ex and I used to do violent, primal take down scenes all of the time. I don't think that I would have experienced a catharsis from them anymore if he had a whiskey bottle in his hand...unless of course he actually decided to take that all the way....(which thank God he would have never done) or if he decided to "mimic" other sexual aspects of my rape.

I really am interested in the thoughts of the two of you regarding how this scene triggered the responses that you were desiring. I would be open to dialogue if it is something that you also desire, although it is not so important to me that I would wish to do so if you believed the outcome may lead to more negative thought or emotion. I do very much appreciate the answers you have given thus far and I thank you for being so open.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TxBadMan)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 3:51:22 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I really am interested in the thoughts of the two of you regardin
g how this scene triggered the responses that you were desiring

As you already know that this re-enactment ( and you know, I really do hate using that word ) was done without my knowledge, I am going to answer from the perspective of how I felt AFTER it was over.
 
Totally, and completly furious. And when I say that, I mean to the point of not being aware of what I was doing. The minute I felt the steel slide up my leg, I went into a rage so strong that everything else was blocked out. And yes, I do remember feeling the rage sweeping over me.  
Once the haze had cleared from my mind, I found myself being rocked slowly. And all I remember is Chris saying over and over ' finally, thank god' . He told me that I actually wrestled the pipe from him and got in a couple swipes before he managed to take it from me.
Alot of crying, a lot of confusion as to WHY he did this ( Chris I mean ); but more than that, for the first time I felt able to actually...I guess the word I can use is FEEL...I felt able to feel again.
Did this all happen right away? No. This was 4 years ago; I am still in therapy, and I still go to group meetings, and I am still learning. But since that night, I feel free.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 4:57:24 PM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I've been sitting here reading your posts and Chris' posts... My god what a powerful story. I know it's not a story to you... it's trauma, and I don't mean to belittle or invalidate it but I simply cannot find words to express what your account stirred within me.
 
I'm crying and I don't know why... some good, some bad, some just honored that you were willing to share.
 
Anytime I've ever discussed this topic before, no one was ever willing to say "I've done that too" and this huge swelling tide of people who judged and criticized and claimed I was sick, or my partner was sick, etc would just shut me down.
 
Your courage, and your pain is felt personally by me, and you have my respect for being willing to open your experience to others here...
 
~soft smiles~

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/5/2006 5:19:12 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
This is very true. Many women feel empowered when they take a course and develop the skills to be more equipped to deal with it. For some, self defense classes fill that need, for others they go the Concealed Weapons route.


Thank you for the lovely compliments.

There is more to what I do than simply teach skills.  A person can go to a self defense class and learn how to hit somebody in the throat or shoot a gun.  Their ability drops off within weeks of learning it.  Additionally, adrenalin changes everything.  In the adrenalin state, your body has increased large muscle strength, loss of fine motor movements, diminished pain sensations, and higher order cognitive functions are greatly diminished.

Police officers are trained to empty their magazine (unlike TV where they take one shot) at the target.  I was reading about a shooting by police officer here in Los Angeles where the person he was shooting at 8 feet away from him, armed, was hit twice.  Our consultant for weapons tactics made the comment that that was a higher percentage of hits than normal by trained police officers.

Firing a gun is a fine motor movement.  Finding your key and putting it in the lock is another one.  Balancing your checkbook is a cognitive act.  Try doing it the next time you go skydiving if you dont believe me.

My job in the class is to adrenalize the student and she is taught to fight in that state.  She doesnt need to take refresher courses because we are locking the lessons into her limbic system.

The result, in my opinion, is the rewriting of her history.  She was in a dark and fearful and sad place at some point in her life.  Adrenalized and helpless, her body recorded what happened and how she responded to it.  So when she gets adrenalized later in life and the limbic system takes over, the only skill it has is to do what it did the last time (she did survive it) to stay alive.

She comes to our class.  I adrenalize her in the class.  She wins the fight.  Always.  We start off slow.  The fights get more intense as the class goes on.  But again, the student always wins.  Additionally, the person learns that they cannot leave until the fight is over.  There is no time-out, etc.  She has to fight as long as she is capable of fighting.  She internalizes this on a very visceral level.

In my opinion, what the class seems to do is let the cognitive part of her brain know that when the adrenalin is flying, her body will take care of her and be 100% on her side.

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 3:07:29 AM   
fldrkhorse


Posts: 158
Joined: 11/5/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Fascinating.

_____________________________

I'm not where I need to be, but I'm better than I was yesterday.

Namaste, I honor the divine in you

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 6:36:41 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Tikkie,
Thank you. I think I do understand better where you are coming from now. This act (I don't like that other word either but used it for lack of a better one) was a catalyst to emotion for you, not a cure. A beginning. It let you start to openly feel something that you were consciously or unconsciously shoving down. I am very glad that you found this helpful and that you continue on your path with therapy. Thank you once again for your openness, your honesty and your courage.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 11:19:59 AM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

I've been sitting here reading your posts and Chris' posts... My god what a powerful story. I know it's not a story to you... it's trauma, and I don't mean to belittle or invalidate it but I simply cannot find words to express what your account stirred within me.
 
I'm crying and I don't know why... some good, some bad, some just honored that you were willing to share.
 
Anytime I've ever discussed this topic before, no one was ever willing to say "I've done that too" and this huge swelling tide of people who judged and criticized and claimed I was sick, or my partner was sick, etc would just shut me down.
 
Your courage, and your pain is felt personally by me, and you have my respect for being willing to open your experience to others here...
 
~soft smiles~


Thank you Ma'am, however let me say this. ALL traumatic experiences are powerful, no matter which side of the fence you may be seeing them from. I said before; I'll say it again. Men and women who survive have a strength unlike any that I have ever seen in a person. God forbid that strength should ever be belittled or unnoticed.

quote:

  Tikkie,
Thank you. I think I do understand better where you are coming from now. This act (I don't like that other word either but used it for lack of a better one) was a catalyst to emotion for you, not a cure.


You do understand  

I don't excuse myself for what I did, or how I went about it; and I would never tell someone to try this themselves. I don't agree with rape scenes; whether a person has actually been through the trauma or just wants to 'try it out'. I do however believe that when two people understand each other enough, that sometimes one person has to take a risk at helping the other.


_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 2:30:35 PM   
doll


Posts: 296
Joined: 7/10/2005
From: Middle Georgia
Status: offline 		Not actually responding to any one person.  I was very moved by this thread as well.  I was raped at 17, lost my virginity in this act and have never had therapy or anything to help me through this.  I talked to my counselor in school about this and friends and family who had gone through it.  I am 30 now and I still get flashbacks as everyone else talked about and recently had blocked images come to surface.  I am not sure if reenacting it will help me or not, but it is something that has been discussed between me and my bf.  I give kudos to the Doms that have done this to help their subs....it takes a lot for someone to take on that responsibility.

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(in reply to TxBadMan)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 3:18:51 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		What would really help me, is to play a scene where I could pull out a .38 and blow the guys fucking brains out after he was finished.
 
Sadly, there is no collarme website for that.

(in reply to doll)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 3:24:25 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

What would really help me, is to play a scene where I could pull out a .38 and blow the guys fucking brains out after he was finished.
 
Sadly, there is no collarme website for that.

Would you like to know something. I doubt very much that it would help. 9 months after I was raped, I went to the man who did this to me ( by the way, he managed to get out of jail after 3 weeks due to a technicality ), stood on his doorstep; and when he opened the door, I shot him point blank. Then calmly sat down and waited for the police to arrive.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 3:30:44 PM   
doll


Posts: 296
Joined: 7/10/2005
From: Middle Georgia
Status: offline 		I saw the guy a few days after it happened.  He came to my work and I hid in the backroom crying hysterically until he left.  My twin sister went out and confronted him about it and he denied everything.  Good for you Tikkiee...I wish I had had the guts to do that.

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(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 3:37:05 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Good for you Tikkiee...I wish I had had the guts to do that.

No doll. NOT good for me. I took the cowardly way towards dealing with what had happened. There is no honor, there is no happiness, and there is no courage in that.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to doll)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/6/2006 4:10:29 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

Good for you Tikkiee...I wish I had had the guts to do that.

No doll. NOT good for me. I took the cowardly way towards dealing with what had happened. There is no honor, there is no happiness, and there is no courage in that.


And thank you immensely for being honest enough to say so. While killing your attacker is certainly something that I would bet nearly every survivor at least contemplates or fantasizes about...it is NOT the answer and will not erase the trauma or even leave you satisfied.

In my opinion it is much better to work through it to the point where you no longer have those extreme feelings of hate and revenge. The men who raped me got free rent in my head for far longer than they were ever worth....when their ghosts come ringing my bell today my answer is "sorry but there's no room at the inn". I refuse to give them one more second of power over me, including my emotions, as long as I have any say in the matter. There are still the very rare times when, as I said, something will inadvertantly trigger a memory....but I take great satisfaction in the fact that I am still here and I am a stronger person today as a result of my unfortunate stumble into their path. If I were to see them today the only thing I would have to say to them is "I fucking won....and karma is going to kick your ass!".

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Rape scenarios: WARNING VERY DARK SUBJECT - 6/7/2006 5:20:26 PM   
doll


Posts: 296
Joined: 7/10/2005
From: Middle Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

quote:

Good for you Tikkiee...I wish I had had the guts to do that.

No doll. NOT good for me. I took the cowardly way towards dealing with what had happened. There is no honor, there is no happiness, and there is no courage in that.

Sorry I didn't mean it in that way, I meant good for you that you could confront him, even if it was so negatively.  Violence is never the answer, I apologize if I made it out to sound that way.

_____________________________


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(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 80
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