Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Blending politics and religion


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Blending politics and religion Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/20/2012 7:09:13 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		<fr>

I think the relationship between politics and religion is much thornier and complex than the soundbites suggest.

Those of us on the left tend to forget that the antislavery and Civil Rights movements were saturated in religion and largely powered by people of faith. In South Africa, Desmond Tutu explicitly drew on Christian principles during his leadership of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. His account of that work, No Future Without Forgiveness, is one of the most powerful things I've ever read.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/20/2012 7:11:27 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

That was a sarcastic dig on how bush used to claim god talked to him.......


Not surprised it went right over your head......



Well, the other thread is still active, so I'm sure you'll be popping right over to provide a straight answer to the question then?


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/20/2012 7:25:14 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		It's not the question of whether somebody is a person of faith. What bothered me most about Bush was that he wore his faith on his sleeve. He even said on more than one occasion that God directed him to invade Iraq. Michelle Bachmann talked about praying to ask God if she should enter the Republican primary.

God sent an angel to tell Mary that she will give birth to His son, and yet people like that actually God is concerned about the course of politics in this country so much so that He speaks to them directly.

And then there is this: http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/864955/%27muslims_%26_buddhists%3A_get_out!%27_says_preacher_applauded_by_santorum/#paragraph3

If you don’t love America, if you don’t like the way we do things, I have one thing to say — get out!”

“We don’t worship Buddha! I said we don’t worship Buddha, we don’t worship Muhammad, we don’t worship Allah, we worship God, we worship God’s son Jesus Christ.”

Santorum applauded this bile. He has forgotten that the "way we do things" in this country is to grant everybody the freedom of religion. Santorum may not worship Buddha, but some do and it is not an anti-American thing. Santorum may not worship Muhammad or Allah--but those who do are not anti-American. As for worshiping "God's son Jesus Christ"...If I remember my catechism correctly, Jesus warned against people worshiping him rather God.

I'd like to see the right wing justify this after their hate fest over Obama sitting in Wright's church, where Obama eventually spoke out against the rhetoric Wright preached...when Santorum is applauding even more vile rhetoric.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/20/2012 8:44:37 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fr>

I think the relationship between politics and religion is much thornier and complex than the soundbites suggest.

Those of us on the left tend to forget that the antislavery and Civil Rights movements were saturated in religion and largely powered by people of faith. In South Africa, Desmond Tutu explicitly drew on Christian principles during his leadership of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. His account of that work, No Future Without Forgiveness, is one of the most powerful things I've ever read.

That`s a great point...

It`s impossible for us to divorce ourselves from of spirituality....and we shouldn`t try.....IMHO.

The issue that`s at the root of mixing politics and THE POWER OF BIG "G" GOVERNMENT is that both are power centers....one(governemnt)...with power over people`s lives and liberty and well-being,property and prosperity.....



And the other power center(religion) with power over people`s souls and their salvation,controlled my mere men(and women,occasionally)....



Now combine those two and almost every time.....people get hurt.

There may be times when a super concentration of power does good things but the potential for doing harm is also bigger.

And the two are diminished.....not improved.....by the mixing.....

It`s a toxic mix with no checks and balances.

This is why the FFs didn`t want the mixing......and why they rejected the Church Of England that was headed by the King of England.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/20/2012 9:36:53 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Historically, this is true. It seems to me that mainstream religion has become far less tolerant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fr>

I think the relationship between politics and religion is much thornier and complex than the soundbites suggest.

Those of us on the left tend to forget that the antislavery and Civil Rights movements were saturated in religion and largely powered by people of faith. In South Africa, Desmond Tutu explicitly drew on Christian principles during his leadership of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. His account of that work, No Future Without Forgiveness, is one of the most powerful things I've ever read.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 7:00:33 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Can`t defend your party imposing their religion on others......in this case rape victims......or maybe you beleive "chuck" when he says women are "claiming" to have been raped to get an abortion?!

Your lack of words/thoughts is indicative.


My lack of words? You have proven over and over that you hate anything on the right and are willing to paint the entire party based on what individual members of the party do. Why would I bother trying to tell you anything. It would be like trying to teach a ball to bounce on it's own. You can say what ever you like and it will still just lay there and be a bigo.....errr ball.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 7:04:44 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

It's not the question of whether somebody is a person of faith. What bothered me most about Bush was that he wore his faith on his sleeve. He even said on more than one occasion that God directed him to invade Iraq. Michelle Bachmann talked about praying to ask God if she should enter the Republican primary.


So they were bad because they said they turn to god before making major decisions, but it's ok that

"President Barack Obama said his Christian faith is a driving force behind his economic policies, from Wall Street reform to his calls for the wealthy to pay higher taxes."

The only difference I see between the two is the r or d attached to the name.

thanks for proving my point.



< Message edited by thishereboi -- 3/21/2012 7:05:32 AM >

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 7:50:23 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Can you understand the difference between having Christian values that guide your life and believing you are talking to god directly, and he is telling you what to do? Probably a little subtle for you, boi, but think about it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

It's not the question of whether somebody is a person of faith. What bothered me most about Bush was that he wore his faith on his sleeve. He even said on more than one occasion that God directed him to invade Iraq. Michelle Bachmann talked about praying to ask God if she should enter the Republican primary.


So they were bad because they said they turn to god before making major decisions, but it's ok that

"President Barack Obama said his Christian faith is a driving force behind his economic policies, from Wall Street reform to his calls for the wealthy to pay higher taxes."

The only difference I see between the two is the r or d attached to the name.

thanks for proving my point.




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 7:54:26 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Can you understand the difference between having Christian values that guide your life and believing you are talking to god directly, and he is telling you what to do? Probably a little subtle for you, boi, but think about it.


Praying is talking to god directly. And why would it be a little subtle for me? What are you trying to imply without actually coming out and saying it?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 8:11:58 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Praying is talking to god directly.


The problem is with those who think that the voices in their heads are G-d talking back...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 8:13:04 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		That from what I can tell from these threads, you have a ham handed approach to both religion and politics.
Praying to god can be comforting to those who are so inclined. Thinking that it is a two way conversation is just insane and scary.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 9:04:55 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

<fr>

I think the relationship between politics and religion is much thornier and complex than the soundbites suggest.

Those of us on the left tend to forget that the antislavery and Civil Rights movements were saturated in religion and largely powered by people of faith. In South Africa, Desmond Tutu explicitly drew on Christian principles during his leadership of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. His account of that work, No Future Without Forgiveness, is one of the most powerful things I've ever read.

...and it cuts both ways: Southern churches broke with their Northern counterparts during reconstruction, grew exponentially until the sixties, while spreading throughout the West following public works programs during the depression while the Northern Churches shrank - the SBC, the largest and fastest growing, drafted "The Fundamentals", from which we derive the word "fundamentalists", but the Presbyterian, Methodist, and Lutheran churches split off as well.

Evangelical, exceptionalist and millennialist, they are the demographic George W. was speaking to in code, and the demographic the current republican front runners are fighting over - a candidate has to carry the South to win anymore, going back to Nixon - Every president since has been some species of Southern religion - Reagan was Assembly of God I believe, a Cali branch of Southern fundies, and he presaged (Methodist) Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech (codewords for the antichrist) in his "Empire of Evil" speech, and spoke portentously about "Wedgewood", by which most presume he meant "Wormwood", a reference to Revelations.

Again, there are liberals in the mix, but they tend to get marginalized by the holy rollers - Prop 8 passed by mobilizing large numbers of African-American Southern Baptist Church ladies, and most of the pro-prop 8 funding came from the Southern fundies, which peripherally includes the Mormons, although there is a bit of friction remaining there, as we saw early in Romney's campaign.

You really ought to read Kevin Phillips's American Theocracy to get an idea of just how complex the issue is.

_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 9:34:13 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

That from what I can tell from these threads, you have a ham handed approach to both religion and politics.
Praying to god can be comforting to those who are so inclined. Thinking that it is a two way conversation is just insane and scary.

In fact, it should probably be a disqualifier from standing for any political office in a sane and rational society. These days we have another term for gnosis, after all: the shrinks call it "schizophrenia"...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 5:47:38 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You really ought to read Kevin Phillips's American Theocracy to get an idea of just how complex the issue is.


I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads-up!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 5:51:38 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

That from what I can tell from these threads, you have a ham handed approach to both religion and politics.
Praying to god can be comforting to those who are so inclined. Thinking that it is a two way conversation is just insane and scary.

Thank you semisweet......

"Ham handed".......perfect.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Blending politics and religion - 3/21/2012 8:47:30 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I have seen the hate start spewing whenever a repub implies he might be turning to god for guidance. I wonder if this will get the same reaction?
"He starts each morning with a brief prayer, then spends time reading scripture. Sometimes, he said, pastors come to the Oval Officer to pray with him, for his family and for the country."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/02/obama-national-prayer-breakfast-speech_n_1249631.html


It is more likely to get the following reaction from the political Right:

"Every morning President Obama starts the day with a brief prayer to Allah, then spends time reading the Koran. Sometimes, he said, Christian pastors come to the Oval Officer to pray with him, for his family and for the country. This , of course, is all a smokescreen to hide the fact that President Obama is really a Muslim. In public, President Obama fakes being a Christian to hide his true religion, which is Islam."



_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 36
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Blending politics and religion Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078