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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:26:17 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:


you have him convicted hung and buried and none of you even know the facts yet LMAO


HORSESHIT.

The entirety of my demands are this. George Zimmerman must be arrested and sit in jail awaiting his trial on murder charges.

And **EXACTLY** what other facts do you need to know other than:

1) We have an innocent dead kid, murdered while coming back FROM THE CANDY STORE!

2) George Zimmerman was standing over the him LITERALLY holding a smoking gun.

Please enlighten us all as to why George Zimmerman shouldn't be in jail awaiting trial?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/21/2012 12:27:13 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:27:19 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't think you can get someone to beg for their life and murder them without brandishing a firearm.

Wow, mind-reading AND a crystal ball. You're a regular magic show, just without the pretty girl.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:28:32 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
I did not state outright that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

I quoted you saying it.


No, you quoted me paraphrasing the Florida law on 'stand your ground' as might potentially have implications regarding this case in response to those proposing the 'stand your ground' law as some flailing defense for Zimmerman's actions. You did not quote me from that post saying specifically that Zimmerman attacked Martin (prior to drawing and shooting) because I never said it in that post.

quote:

One detail you omit, for example, which just came up in the other thread, is that Martin was in someone's back yard. Not a good place to be. That's trespassing, and would only have tended to confirm Zimmerman's suspicion that Martin was up to no good.



All accounts by witnesses have the imbroglio as occurring along the pathway between the back of townhouses facing each other. Given that the victim was being pursued by a red-shirted wacko, we cannot assume that the pursuee would necessarily be going the same route as he normally might, in the first place. But the event happened along that route of pathway between back of residences used by many and used normally.

Is your only resort to complete fatuousness here in claiming that Martin "was in somebody's back yard, not a good place to be"?

That's where the conflagration might have spilled into, even if it wound up there at all. But you use another poster's reference to the incident occurring in "somebody's back yard" in his description for the intra-residence pathway where it actually occurred as evidence that Martin was sneaking around in somebody's back yard.

So yeah, pardon me for omitting that little detail.


OK, just who is "making it up" here?




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/21/2012 12:52:12 PM >

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:29:52 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, Zimmerman shot a kid dead as he was coming back from the candy store.

I'm pretty sure that he took the gun out first before firing it. It's possible he just assassinated the kid with his hand in his pocket, but I don't think he really had the balls for that, myself.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:31:25 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		If he wanted to prevent a crime....he would have stayed in the car and waited for the cops.......there was no imminent danger or crime happening that needed action.

As the shooter said......"these ass-holes always get away".....

Zimmerman just wanted to catch the guy......He wasn`t going to let "the ass-hole " get away......and he didn`t.

There was no call to give case........none.

So WTF did Zimmerman think was going to happen when he eventually did catch the "ass-hole"?

Did he think a gun in hand would just make the world start obeying him without question?

There`s a lot of punk-assed douche-bags out there that equate having a gun with having power and sway.

Would Zimmerman have chased after a guy he thought was a armed criminal on drugs if he didn`t have a gun?

You can bet your balls that that would be a hell no.




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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:32:25 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
There`s a lot of punk-assed douche-bags out there that equate having a gun with having power and sway.

Well, he is hispanic...

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:37:50 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		And so it goes. This thread has me more convinced than ever that I am glad that the cops and State's attorney are treading very carefully on this one. I am assuming they are carefully investigating and formulating a legal opinion. This is going to be a difficult case and could lead to some Rodney King level violence if it is not handled appropriately. Personally, I would rather see the State get its ducks in a row and make sure they have a winnable case before making some knee jerk arrest just to appease the public.

Having said that, what a stupid law. Of course it is going to result in shootings in the street and really bad legal results.

_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:40:52 PM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Remember, the Stand Your Ground law SPECIFICALLY exempts George Zimmerman from it's protections due to his own actions.

The law isn't bad. The Sanford Florida Police Department is laughable. The FBI is going to ream them but good...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:47:07 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I think we should let Owner handle Zimmerman's defense. Obviously, he knows what Zimmerman was thinking and doing. I say: Go for it!



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:55:38 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I quoted you saying it.

You did not quote me from that post saying specifically that Zimmerman attacked Martin because I never said it in that post.

Cute.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

All accounts by witnesses have the imbroglio as occurring along the pathway between the back of townhouses facing each other... who is "making it up" here?

I don't fucking make shit up.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kirata
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
    Force him down the street and into someone's back yard

    If Martin WAS in someone's back yard, then at that point he was trespassing. But nevermind that, where did you get the information that he was in anybody's back yard in the first place? I didn't see that detail in any of the stories I read.

    It's on the 911 transcripts.

And it is in the transcript...
    Dispatcher: "Is he right outside?"

    Caller: "Yes. Pretty much out the back, yes."

    Dispatcher: "Is he in front of it or behind it?"

    Caller: "He's behind my house."
But, thanks for the clarification. I wondered about the conflict until you explained it.

K.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 12:55:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
There`s a lot of punk-assed douche-bags out there that equate having a gun with having power and sway.

Well, he is hispanic...

That doesn't have squat to do with it.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 1:01:40 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		This has no relevance to George Zimmerman's stalking and murdering of Martin, as Martin was returning from the candy store when Zimmerman stalked and murdered him.

See, Zimmerman's defense all falls apart because he HUNTED MARTIN DOWN LIKE AN ANIMAL.

"We don't need you to do that"


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/21/2012 1:03:35 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 1:07:26 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
There`s a lot of punk-assed douche-bags out there that equate having a gun with having power and sway.

Well, he is hispanic...


Yep. No racism there. Completely ignorant.

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 1:17:16 PM   
Edwynn


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Yeah well, it doesn't escape notice here that the ONLY way to defend Zimmerman's actions whatsoever depend entirely on a great presumption of knowing Zimmerman's every act and intention immediately prior to and during the subsequent battle, and essentially the know-all and be-all of the entire affair.

Nor does it escape notice that those making these very presumptions by defending Zimmerman in any way only respond to others having counter perspective and alluding to evidence at hand thus far with the thumb-nosing response of "how do you know what actually happened?"

Go back to your nap, kids.



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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 1:23:18 PM   
Kirata


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Nice try, but the only people making any presumptions are the ones screaming murder.

K.

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 2:04:14 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Are native New Yorkers actually this sheltered from reality or even logic or simple comprehension as exists in the rest of the world or is it just you?



Not me.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 2:05:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Nice try, but the only people making any presumptions are the ones screaming murder.

K.


Well, there's that dead kid lying on the ground. And Zimmerman, with no legal authority, standing over his lifeless body holding a literally smoking gun.. What part ISN'T murder?

If Zimmerman has a defense, he can tell it to a jury. Until then, like every other alleged murderer, he can make his case for bail.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/21/2012 2:07:49 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 2:58:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Innocent until proven guilty.

Of course, since Zimmerman's not sitting in jail, compelling his appearance to answer charges MIGHT be an issue...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 4:03:27 PM   
Edwynn


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And as much crap as the Sanford Police are, it is actually the local DA that is responsible for there being no arrest yet, even with or even especially because any 'stand your ground' defense by Zimmerman would be more forcefully counteracted by no less presumption of 'standing your ground' on the part of Martin.

If we are going to make presumption, as the police and the local DA apparently are regarding Zimmerman and his story, let's just carry it through to Martin's cause for legal 'stand your ground' regarding whatever action he might have pursued in response to a real threat.  

To reiterate: Martin was no threat to Zimmerman or anyone else in the community, at the outset. Zimmerman presented himself as a threat to Martin. The exact details of initial confrontation are not needed to understand that there was somebody being followed and then accosted by a conspicuously non-LEO strange person. Even by Florida law, there is hardly any action taken as response to real threat (being followed by a complete stranger here) as such response might be taken by Zimmerman as 'self defense.'

The right of the aggressor to defend himself as response to response to his aggression will likely not play well in civil court, tough ta tas, Sanford police and Sanford DA.





(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Stand your ground - 3/21/2012 4:16:06 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

The exact details of initial confrontation are not needed... there was somebody being followed and then accosted

Previously you pointed out to me that (per the girlfriend) it was Martin who initiated the confrontation: "Why are you following me?"

Would that be a detail?

K.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 80
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