Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist?

Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (Full Version)

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dcnovice -> Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/21/2012 7:57:48 PM)
The question of "Christian privilege" arose on another thread, and it strikes me as an interesting enough topic to warrant its own discussion. So then . . . What is "Christian privilege"? If it exists, what forms does it take?

dcnovice -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/21/2012 8:03:12 PM)
To get things rolling, I'll offer a rough-hewn definition of my own. "Christian privilege," to my eye, is the idea that Christianity occupies--or should occupy, in its adherents' minds--a special place, respected and not without its perks, in society.

dcnovice -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/21/2012 8:34:05 PM)
One might argue that there's a sense of "Christian privilege" underlying the Rev. Dennis Terry's remarks at a Santorum rally: quote: “I don’t care what the liberals say, I don’t care what the naysayers say, this nation was founded as a Christian nation,” Mr. Terry said. “There’s only one God, and his name is Jesus,” he continued. “I’m tired of people telling me that I can’t say those words. I’m tired of people telling us as Christians that we can’t voice our beliefs or we can no longer pray in public. Listen to me. If you don’t love America, if you don’t like the way we do things I have one thing to say — get out!” Thunderous applause interrupted him before he went on. Source: New York Times

GotSteel -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/21/2012 9:01:50 PM)
I posted something in a different thread before finding this one that really would have been better off here: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4069157

MrBukani -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 5:53:53 AM)
hmmm mm mmm Priests get to fuck choirboys and are protected by their masters. hmmh mmmmm Churches dont have to pay taxes. Come join my church of cannabis.[:D] hmmhmm mmmm They are forgiven off all sins. Sayin, I swear to tell the truth so help me God. dont know why somebody needs help speakin the truth. I rather think they need 'help' when they lie.

LoreBook -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 6:13:55 AM)
That's an interesting list, but something came to me while reading it. Change Christian to Hindu and put the speaker in India and most of it applies, make it a Muslim in Indonesia or Turkey and most of it applies. So I think its less a case of "Christian" Privilege than "Majority Religion" Privilege. When looked at in that light it seems a little less worrisome to me. The preceding statement represents the views and opinions of the author and the author alone, and should in no way be considered an attempt by the author to define or determine anything for anybody but herself.

Fightdirecto -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 6:28:01 AM)
As a non-denominational Christian and an American-born Caucasian, I see the concept of "Christian Privilege" as being similar to "White Supremacy/White Privilege" and “American Exceptionalism” – the concept that your group (i.e. members of organized Protestant or Catholic churches or Caucasians or American citizens) is inherently superior to all other groups and should be treated with more deference and greater consideration in all areas (employment & promotions, working and living conditions, government services, etc.). Further, any failure to acknowledge your group’s inherent superiority by anyone not a member of your group is just proof that they are inferior to you.

LaTigresse -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 7:26:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoreBook That's an interesting list, but something came to me while reading it. Change Christian to Hindu and put the speaker in India and most of it applies, make it a Muslim in Indonesia or Turkey and most of it applies. So I think its less a case of "Christian" Privilege than "Majority Religion" Privilege. When looked at in that light it seems a little less worrisome to me. The preceding statement represents the views and opinions of the author and the author alone, and should in no way be considered an attempt by the author to define or determine anything for anybody but herself. I actually have to agree with this with the addition of what Flightdirecto wrote. I think it is certainly defined by region and majority. The problem is that now, the US is NOT primarily a generically white, christian, country. Add to the changes in our population the normal human fear of anything foreign to them, and you have white supremacy and religious wing nuts spouting off about god, Jesus and country........proclaiming the US to be a christian country. It was at one time primarily occupied by christians, they are now becoming a minority and that fact scares the shit out of them. Hence the verbal diarrhea coming from the loudest of them.

Owner59 -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 7:27:28 AM)
There a phenomenon that shows it`s self in the public forum at times where "Christians".....fundies,righties, supremacists and small-minded/non-worldly types, claim that we are a "Christian nation"...SIGHTING ONLY...that "they"(Christians) are in the majority......numbers-wise. They set those raw numbers(they claim as "their own")against the other religion`s and faith`s raw numbers and figure that because there are more Christians.....Christian are therefore in charge....on top...the boss...the owner of America and can make laws based on the scriptures.....b/c after all,"they" do that in Muslim countries. In my humble opinion,I don`t think god or the founders ever invisioned Americans using religioun in these types of ways.....as leverage against or for others. There`s not much one can do about cultural norms and behaviors that are Christian in nature and show up in everyday life,nor should we. But thinking majority rules therefore Christians rule, is just not right.That`s not how America works.

GotSteel -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 8:00:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoreBook That's an interesting list, but something came to me while reading it. Change Christian to Hindu and put the speaker in India and most of it applies, make it a Muslim in Indonesia or Turkey and most of it applies. So I think its less a case of "Christian" Privilege than "Majority Religion" Privilege. When looked at in that light it seems a little less worrisome to me. Sure, it's not unique to Chistianity or even just a religious thing if you want to start looking at patterns. There's male privilege, white privilege, heterosexual privilege, etc. Thing is none of that changes the fact that in my country Christian Privilege is awful.

PatrickG38 -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 1:35:23 PM)
Generally, this privilege is actually the source of the false sense of oppression that many Christians feel. In a democracy there must to some extent be a certain privilege to majoritarian traditions (Christmas is a Federal holiday, but Yom Kippur is not) and in the United States a vague Christianity is properly normative. Nevertheless, a human rights based democracy must equally insist this privilege is limited to unimportant matters (no group can have any special claim to the law, the political process, and economic opportunity and so on). An intelligence and respectful majority also recognizes it is the recipient of some privilege and acts in a magnanimous fashion allowing non-majoritarian groups certain rights not seemly if applied to the majoritarian group (this is why the NAACP is legitimate, but a white rights group is not). Obviously, this is a complicated question.

GrandPoobah -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 1:51:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 Generally, this privilege is actually the source of the false sense of oppression that many Christians feel. In a democracy there must to some extent be a certain privilege to majoritarian traditions (Christmas is a Federal holiday, but Yom Kippur is not) and in the United States a vague Christianity is properly normative. Nevertheless, a human rights based democracy must equally insist this privilege is limited to unimportant matters (no group can have any special claim to the law, the political process, and economic opportunity and so on). An intelligence and respectful majority also recognizes it is the recipient of some privilege and acts in a magnanimous fashion allowing non-majoritarian groups certain rights not seemly if applied to the majoritarian group (this is why the NAACP is legitimate, but a white rights group is not). Obviously, this is a complicated question. I suspect at least a part of the reason this idea is floating around, or seems to be floating around more (recently) is that the pure numbers don't work any more. In pure numbers "Christians" probably outnumber any other single "denomination" in the US, but they don't represent a majority. There are likely more "non-Christians" if you lump everyone else together, and that's pretty frightening to the former majority. It's the same phenomenon we see with all sorts of things. With Gays coming out more and more, it seems like they're multiplying faster than before, although that's likely not true. Much of the brawl about immigration, setting aside the obvious "illegal" factor, is centered around "there are just to many of them and they're taking over the country" mentality. Anyone who's been in a failing majority will likely feel the same way. Change is never fun, especially if it appears that you're losing your claim to the top of the heap. So...if you can't win "the argument" any other way, you start yelling louder. I suspect that's a lot of what we're seeing as "the old way of life" feels more and more threatened. It's human nature, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

Owner59 -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 1:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 Generally, this privilege is actually the source of the false sense of oppression that many Christians feel. In a democracy there must to some extent be a certain privilege to majoritarian traditions (Christmas is a Federal holiday, but Yom Kippur is not) and in the United States a vague Christianity is properly normative. Nevertheless, a human rights based democracy must equally insist this privilege is limited to unimportant matters (no group can have any special claim to the law, the political process, and economic opportunity and so on). An intelligence and respectful majority also recognizes it is the recipient of some privilege and acts in a magnanimous fashion allowing non-majoritarian groups certain rights not seemly if applied to the majoritarian group (this is why the NAACP is legitimate, but a white rights group is not). Obviously, this is a complicated question. I want to completely associate myself with Patrick`s comments.I couldn`t have said it better. You to Mr. Poobah.Well put.

LoreBook -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 3:23:09 PM)
quote: Sure, it's not unique to Chistianity or even just a religious thing if you want to start looking at patterns. There's male privilege, white privilege, heterosexual privilege, etc. Thing is none of that changes the fact that in my country Christian Privilege is awful. That's very true, I wasn't meaning to try deny the problem here, it was just an observation that popped into my head while reading your list. I agree that Christian Privilege is getting worse here, especially since we, unlike so many other countries, were specifically founded as a non-denominational country. I'm sure that if I was a practising Jew, I'd find it even more troubling. Edited to remove an extra "I'm sure". [;)]

GotSteel -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 7:20:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 Generally, this privilege is actually the source of the false sense of oppression that many Christians feel. Yep, having gotten used to the status quo equality feels like oppression to them.

GotSteel -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 7:30:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Come join my church of cannabis.[:D] Thing is that's a real thing: quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_spiritual_use_of_cannabis Sacramental, religious and spiritual use of cannabis refers to cannabis used in a religious or spiritual context. Cannabis has an ancient history of ritual usage as an aid to trance and has been traditionally used in a religious context throughout the Old World. Herodotus wrote about early ceremonial practices by the Scythians, thought to have occurred from the 5th to 2nd century BCE. Itinerant Hindu saints have used it in India for centuries, and in modern times it has been embraced by the Rastafari movement. Rastafarians are among the largest consumers of cannabis as part of their religious and spiritual rites. Why is it that Christians can pray their kids to death for Jesus but the rest of us can't even smoke for Shiva [image]local://upfiles/566126/D838BDC811044D5E8883F95043DE96DD.jpg[/image]

dcnovice -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 7:38:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: PatrickG38 Generally, this privilege is actually the source of the false sense of oppression that many Christians feel. Yep, having gotten used to the status quo equality feels like oppression to them. I'm always struck by this during the annual, tedious discussions about whether department store clerks should say "Happy Holidays!" or "Merry Christmas!" My family discusses this at length each December. There are folks who become seriously affronted at the former greeting, as if it's a personal slight. Of course that's just one skirmish in The War on Christmas.

Real0ne -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 10:07:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani hmmm mm mmm Priests get to fuck choirboys and are protected by their masters. hmmh mmmmm Churches dont have to pay taxes. Come join my church of cannabis.[:D] hmmhmm mmmm They are forgiven off all sins. Sayin, I swear to tell the truth so help me God. dont know why somebody needs help speakin the truth. I rather think they need 'help' when they lie. ask any dumb assed american and they will tell you they won the war! quote: ARTICLE. 1.st There shall be a firm, inviolable and universal Peace, and a true and sincere Friendship between the most Christian King, his Heirs and Successors, and the United States of America; and the Subjects of the most Christian King and of the said States; and between the Countries, Islands, Cities, and Towns, situate under the Jurisdiction of the most Christian King, and of the said United States, and the people and Inhabitants of every Degree, without exception of Persons or Places; & the Terms herein after mentioned shall be perpetual between the most Christian King his Heirs and Successors and the said United States. ART. 2.nd The most Christian King, and the United States engage mutually not to grant any particular Favor to other Nations in respect of Commerce and Navigation, which shall not immediately become common to the other Party, who shall enjoy the same Favor freely, if the Concession was freer made, or on allowing the same Compensation, if the Concession was Conditional. ART. 3.d The Subjects of the most Christian King shall pay in the Port Havens, Roads, Countries I lands, Cities or Towns, of the United States or any of them, no other or greater Duties or Imposts of what Nature soever they may be, or by what Name soever called, than those which the Nations most favoured are or shall be obliged to pay; and they shall enjoy all the Rights, Liberties, Privileges, Immunities and Exemptions in Trade, Navigation and Commerce, whether in passing from one Port in the said States to another, or in going to and from the same, from and to any Part of the World, which the said Nations do or shall enjoy. ~name that tune for 200

CaptJosh -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/22/2012 11:52:34 PM)
That's the treaty that brought France into the American Revolution on the side of the United States, isn't it?

Kirata -> RE: Christian Privilege: What Is It? Does It Exist? (3/23/2012 1:57:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel Why is it that Christians can pray their kids to death for Jesus but the rest of us can't even smoke for Shiva If you want to start a movement, I'm in. K.

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