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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.collarchat.com/m_4068902/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4075136

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

My my my.....This isnt ending anytime soon......


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/22/arizona-republican-wants-to-force-women-to-witness-an-abortion-before-having-one/


"Arizona Rep. Terri Proud is an extremist anti-abortion conservative. She supports HB 2036 , which would ban abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. She also supports HB 2635, which would allow employers to refuse to cover birth control, and all they need is to declare a religious reason for the refusal. Arizona Republicans also want to force women to tell their employer what they use birth control for before an employer will cover it, and are considering legislation (HB 2800) that would slash funding to Planned Parenthood. It’s safe to say that Arizona, perhaps more than any other state, has declared war on women. But Republicans aren’t through yet, and if Terri Proud has her way, women in Arizona will have to watch an abortion procedure before they can go through with an abortion themselves.

In an email response to a constituent who opposes HB 2036, Proud said she thinks women should be forced to watch a doctor perform an abortion before being allowed to get the procedure as well."

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And he has to carry it for 25+ years

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Yeah, she has to carry it....well.....I'm guessing (it's a gut feel) she knew that once he stuck his dick in her....she had a fairly cognizant grasp of the realities of the potential outcome.

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I'm presuming the woman has an adequate brain....capable of seeing beyond Friday night, a hot guy, her pussy's needs and.....whatever else comes up.

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You want to blame men because they only think with their dick?

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In the end....the child belongs to two people. Not just the woman.

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Yeah, she has to carry it....for 9 months, and he has to carry it for 25+ years.

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I'd say, the girl because she gets a nice ride.....and he gets to live in his Mom's basement.

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The SECOND that sperm hits the egg.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

As one who is ENTIRELY against abortions, I can only say, the laws need to be respectful, but they also need to include men's rights.

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I can't count how many times a man wanted to keep the child, only to be barricaded by law because....."it's the woman's body".

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Is that child not the mans equally? As well?

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Yeah, she has to carry it....well.....I'm guessing (it's a gut feel) she knew that once he stuck his dick in her....she had a fairly cognizant grasp of the realities of the potential outcome. I'm presuming the woman has an adequate brain....capable of seeing beyond Friday night, a hot guy, her pussy's needs and.....whatever else comes up.

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Either way, whichever side you're on....it's life.

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The SECOND that sperm hits the egg.

It's life.

Period.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Good point, Tazzy. Both the sperm and the egg are alive.

Imho, opinion the serious question about abortion is not when "life" begins but when legal personhood starts. I do not have an easy answer to that.

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ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

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And he has to carry it for 25+ years

.

He does, Lookie?  Please explain.  I think it is also fair to say that in most cases, the mother's responsibility doesn't end when the kid is born.  I am not sure why you think she only has to "carry it . . . for nine months."  A related question I have is, what if she does give birth and wants to put the baby up for adoption?  Does he have the right to prevent that, since it "belongs to both of them"?

In any case, I think principled people can certainly be against abortion, so I wouldn't dream of arguing with you about what you believe.  I do think, though, that if you are going to give a man veto power over a woman's right to make reproductive choices, he should have to put his money where his mouth is.  It seems only fair that he should have to post a financial responsibility bond, $200,000 maybe.  I think the woman has the right to the assurance that she is not going to be spending the next 20 years trying to chase down some deadbeat, don't you?  And I think the taxpayers have the right to know that they are not going to be stuck with the financial responsibility for a kid that some guy insisted could not be aborted, because it was his kid, but then refused to be responsible for.

My years in family court have shown me that motherhood is a commitment, but fatherhood is kind of fluid.  I worked for a while for support enforcement chasing down deadbeat dads, perhaps that has made me kind of cynical.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

As one who is ENTIRELY against abortions, I can only say, the laws need to be respectful, but they also need to include men's rights.

I think that since so many men are irresponsible with their sperm, that unless there's an explicit contract granting him ANY rights, he's just going to have to regret his negligence in not securing the privileges he wants BEFORE letting his sperm negligently loose.

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I can't count how many times a man wanted to keep the child, only to be barricaded by law because....."it's the woman's body".

Blastocysts aren't children. People don't have legal right's until they're BORN. That's the whole point of a BIRTH CERTIFICATE, right?

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Is that child not the mans equally? As well?

Blastocysts aren't children. People don't have legal right's until they're BORN. That's the whole point of a BIRTH CERTIFICATE, right?

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Yeah, she has to carry it....well.....I'm guessing (it's a gut feel) she knew that once he stuck his dick in her....she had a fairly cognizant grasp of the realities of the potential outcome. I'm presuming the woman has an adequate brain....capable of seeing beyond Friday night, a hot guy, her pussy's needs and.....whatever else comes up.

What women do with their bodies is none of your business, and you're extremely offensive and rude to speculate on what other people choose to do or not do.

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Either way, whichever side you're on....it's life.

So is cancer. Do you advocate fettering cancer treatment services?

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The SECOND that sperm hits the egg.

It's life.

Period.

Actually, since the SPERM is alive, and the EGG is alive, live doesn't BEGIN. It's a continuum.

I believe what you would rather say, instead of this scientifically laughable "Life begins at conception" nitwittery, is that "Once G-d implants a SOUL in the blastocyst, then it's a PERSON, and therefore special."

Of course, that's crazy talk too, but you know... Anti-Family-Planners have never been known for their Action Science chops...

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I can't decide whether poor Lookie is trying to be funny or serious.

I also can't decide which option is less disturbing.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

Uh, it has nothing to do with when the fetus becomes human, per se, which by lengthy tradition, has always been held to be at "quickening", or basically, when the baby begins to move in the womb.

No, this is about creationism v traducianism, as I mentioned in one of the other threads: in creationism the soul is created by god at the moment of conception.

They aren't debating cellular growth, they're debating about when the soul enters those cells, hence the confusion.

Of course as soon as they have souls, those souls are damned by original sin, so they either repent or go to hell.

I think it would be more fair to wait to call them human when they understand what repentance is, but that's just me.

Carry on.

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Uh, it has nothing to do with when the fetus becomes human, per se, which by lengthy tradition, has always been held to be at "quickening", or basically, when the baby begins to move in the womb.

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Uh, it has nothing to do with when the fetus becomes human, per se, which by lengthy tradition, has always been held to be at "quickening", or basically, when the baby begins to move in the womb.