RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 11:28:13 AM

sabswife

Posts: 188
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

It's also why most female subs enjoy being called "MY SLUT" but cannot be comfortable just calling themselves "A SLUT." The possessive form of "my" allows them to feel secure and desired without the negative connotations of being an actual slut.

not this sub, being sexual doesn't make me a slut

< Message edited by sabswife -- 6/4/2006 11:29:19 AM >

_____________________________

"If you look inside your heart, You don't have to be afraid--Of what you are. There's an answer, If you reach into your soul--And the sorrow that you know Will melt away."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 21

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 11:35:37 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sabswife
not this sub, being sexual doesn't make me a slut

No it doesn't. But then I wasn't trying to say that being sexual makes someone a slut.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sabswife)

Post #: 22

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 11:40:58 AM

sabswife

Posts: 188
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

i can see what you are saying.. if someone is in to that type of thing-- for me-- i am not. what D/s has done for me is validate that the things i want and feel are normal and not slutty or kinky.. its who i am and there is nothing wrong with that. to me calling someone a slut for these things, is vanilla.

my Dom doesn't call me these things or feel the need to call me these things. i am who i am, and He is who He is.

i am getting totally off topic here tho, my apologies-- my thoughts on the OP have already but expressed quite eloquently by other posters. :)

_____________________________

"If you look inside your heart, You don't have to be afraid--Of what you are. There's an answer, If you reach into your soul--And the sorrow that you know Will melt away."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 23

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 12:56:49 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Crappy and LA, I agree that people have the same hangups in as they do outside of the lifestyle.

Perhaps it is my own personal growth and not my discovery of D/s is the reason I have not attracted men with this issue in several years myself. It just seems to correspond with in my life with finding WIIWD that I date men that are much more accepting of me sexually (and in other ways).

As far as sabswife is concerned, I made that point about humiliation on another thread, not all submissives are into that or enjoy it.. it is just one more kink. I can take or leave it myself and it used to be a larger thrill for me because it was one of those things that vanilla people can dabble in too (one of my vanilla kinks used to be verbal humiliation at least). So your point is extremely valid.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 24

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 1:11:57 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The reason I bring it up on the forum is because I wonder at times if vanilla men that look for submissive women for kinky sex have ended up in a sexless vanilla marriage precisely because of this complex. They sought out a woman for marriage that was the "good girl" and they cannot express their "needs" to her, so they look for one of those "slutty" submissives to date on the side.

I think this is very true. I've found that many men I've known have been very interested in bdsm, but when it comes down to having a relationship, they walk away from the kinky girl, and end up with very sexually inhibited women.

I've often wondered if it's the Madonna/Whore thing, or whether they subconciously fear that they will not be able to satisy, and hold onto, a "wild woman" in the long run.

The interesting thing is I've also seen it in the BBW community. Men who love to have sex with large women, but will not date or marry one. For most of them there's that social stigma of not being with a woman everyone else considers acceptable.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 25

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 1:27:22 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

I think this is very true. I've found that many men I've known have been very interested in bdsm, but when it comes down to having a relationship, they walk away from the kinky girl, and end up with very sexually inhibited women.

I've often wondered if it's the Madonna/Whore thing, or whether they subconciously fear that they will not be able to satisy, and hold onto, a "wild woman" in the long run.

The interesting thing is I've also seen it in the BBW community. Men who love to have sex with large women, but will not date or marry one. For most of them there's that social stigma of not being with a woman everyone else considers acceptable.

My experience would validate this.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Post #: 26

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 2:03:51 PM

WhiteRadiance

Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I must say that your posts are ALWAYS dead center. You guys rock!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The cause is simple. Whether it's a vanilla marriage or an alternative relationship; people are so insecure that they lack the confidence to be who they are. Instead of releasing those feelings and trying to become more self-aware, they instead seek 'approval' by acting as they think others want them to. They act as 'society' decides, their work place, their parents, their spouse; expects them to act. It turns out that their whole life is a result of that 'act'. So begins the rationalization, that unfortunately for some, only dies when they do.

There is no 'Madonna/Whore' complex from the inside. External pressures create the conflict. "I love you too much to make love to you." "I see you as the mother of our child and can't see you as my sexual partner." A man who uses these excuses with a partner is using them to rationalize the end result of years of 'acting'. The people who may need to see an 'act' are the people outside the relationship. The employers, the parents, the children contingent upon their age all may need to see an 'act' sometimes at some point. Your partner in a relationship can never be dealing with an 'act'.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 27

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 4:19:25 PM

ladyseekinglord

Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline

I find this somewhat depressing. I was raised as a "good girl", Catholic and everything. I also definitely have the slut inside. I am both.

Its hard finding someone with whom I can be all of myself with. The guys who want the good girl and heart stuff don't satisfy the slut. The guys who want the slut don't satisfy the good girl and the heart stuff.

Haven't given up yet though.

lady

_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 28

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 6:59:58 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irishbynature

That could be the caselLevel...however; many new people come to the forum and being told it is an archived discussion (in my opinion), is the same as saying, "This topic is finished..go read here and find out what we discussed..." No offense was meant at all. Juliaoceania is a dear friend of mine in real-life, and referring to her post as one that's been discussed, seems to lessen the impact of what she's trying to examine to the group, esp newbies.
Respectfully
Irish

I see your point, Irish. And it is a good topic. *smiles*

Level

(in reply to irishbynature)

Post #: 29

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:06:18 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyseekinglord

I find this somewhat depressing. I was raised as a "good girl", Catholic and everything. I also definitely have the slut inside. I am both.

Its hard finding someone with whom I can be all of myself with. The guys who want the good girl and heart stuff don't satisfy the slut. The guys who want the slut don't satisfy the good girl and the heart stuff.

Haven't given up yet though.

lady

lol, lady. No, don't give up, just the fact that you know what you are puts you ahead of the curve. And there are guys who crave the totality, the "whore" and the sweet and loving woman.

(in reply to ladyseekinglord)

Post #: 30

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:07:49 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyseekinglord

Its hard finding someone with whom I can be all of myself with. The guys who want the good girl and heart stuff don't satisfy the slut. The guys who want the slut don't satisfy the good girl and the heart stuff.

Hello A/all,

I call women sluts and whores and bitches and whatever in one of my day jobs. The emotional aspect of any of those words is pretty much flat in my psyche. If she enjoys it, I will say it. The words I prefer to use as I am preparing to use her are words like "darlin" and "strumpet."

I am not sure I can speak to the psychological implications of people who date those they say they are not attracted to over and over again.
Some people know what they want and cannot get it.

Some people dont know what they want and get it repeatedly.

Some people dont know what they want, get it repeatedly, but dont feel worthy to have it and mess it up.

The older and more decrepit I get the more I come to the conclusion that most people dont really understand their desires and motivations.

As usual, this is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to ladyseekinglord)

Post #: 31

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:09:41 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

Julia....the Complex does exist..you are correct. Sometimes it is plainly a person who does not want sex and other times it's the idea that wives are not to be sexy and they "stop" sex due to "mother issues" ...Vanilla or BDSM...don't care..seen it happen on both ends of the spectrum.

Julia knows this because it happened to me. (in both a Vanilla and a D/s situation)..odd, huh?

Julia ROCKS! *You go girl..keep blowing minds with that intellect of yours* (Whispers....not just because you are my best friend..lol)
Hugs!
Irish

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:12:16 PM

xxmstrchasxx

Posts: 423
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I am talking about men that believe they should marry the "good girl" and have sex with "whores".

julia,

I apparently am the exception to the rule. I would lots rather marry the "whore" and have a great sex life than marry a "good girl" and not get anything. Why argue about sex with someone?

_____________________________

XxMasterChasxX

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:15:09 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

Personally, as a sub, I enjoy being called "Whore or Slut" and have no problem referring to myself this way! (Is there another way? LOL)

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to xxmstrchasxx)

Post #: 34

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:15:59 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

julia is certainly very bright and interesting, but I was a little disappointed that she couldn't find a way to work George Bush into this thread

(in reply to irishbynature)

Post #: 35

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:16:45 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

Thanks Level! It's all good as well.

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 36

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:18:59 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

julia is certainly very bright and interesting, but I was a little disappointed that she couldn't find a way to work George Bush into this thread

LOL Level....working GW into any thread would lessen the value of the intellect of the discussion...(grins)..Besides, we all have an IQ on CM...Bush? He thinks "Our children is learning!" LOL...sorry, couldn't resist.....(and did it for Julia too!)

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 37

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:20:19 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

julia is certainly very bright and interesting, but I was a little disappointed that she couldn't find a way to work George Bush into this thread

Would the Simian In Chief be considered the Madonna archetype or the Whore archetype?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 38

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:22:52 PM

aurora31

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Its hard finding someone with whom I can be all of myself with. The guys who want the good girl and heart stuff don't satisfy the slut. The guys who want the slut don't satisfy the good girl and the heart stuff.

Yes exactly....this is how I feel too. How do you find one who satisfies both?

aurora

(in reply to ladyseekinglord)

Post #: 39

RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex - 6/4/2006 7:23:22 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

lol...Sinenergy...so glad you didn't call him a "Chimp"..besides, I like chimps and there's no reason to put them down.....

"Simian" is great...I'm laughing here!
Irish

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: The Madonna/Whore Complex

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.082