A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And The 2nd Amendment

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A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And The... - 3/25/2012 7:37:47 AM

Fightdirecto

Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
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At least once a week, it seems, there is an op-ed or editorial regarding guns, gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. Some say that we need fewer privately owned firearms, some say we need more individuals to be armed, some propose an equivalent “Firearms Operator’s License” similar to a “Motor Vehicle Operator’s License”, and many other, often conflicting positions/arguments.

I now add another proposal, and solicit your comments:

The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:

quote:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

PROPOSED:

A FEDERAL LAW REQUIRING THAT ALL HANDGUNS, RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS MUST BE VISIBLE AT ALL TIMES, WHEN CARRIED BY ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN.

CONCEALING A FIREARM ON ONE’S PERSON WOULD BE A FELONY UNDER LAW, SUBJECT TO FINE OR IMPRISONMENT AND CONFISCATION/DESTRUCTION OF THE FIREARM WHICH HAD BEEN CONCEALED.

Such a law would not violate the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as it would not prevent people from keeping and/or bearing firearms - just prevent them from hiding them from public view. Public safety would be enhanced if every American citizen could tell, at a glance, which of their fellow American citizens was armed and potentially dangerous to them.

For example, who would try to cut in front of another person at the check-out counter at the supermarket if they could see that the person they might be cutting in front of had a visible .44 Magnum revolver hanging from their belt?

What New York Yankees fan would speak badly of the Boston Red Sox if he could clearly see that the man standing next to him was carrying a .12 gauge shotgun and wearing a Boston Red Sox baseball cap?

Would someone try to rob a bank if they could see, at a glance, that 50% of the customers in the bank all had assorted handguns holstered to their belts?

< Message edited by Fightdirecto -- 3/25/2012 7:38:39 AM >

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

Post #: 1

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 7:40:34 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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One of the things I like about concealed carry is the perpetrator never knows if his potential victim is carrying or not. By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 2

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 7:44:55 AM

Iamsemisweet

Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline

All joking aside, my state is an open carry state. Meaning you have to have a permit to carry concealed, but it is outright legal, except in places where alcohol is awe Ed and government buildings, to open carry. About a year ago, a guy got charged with menacing, when basically his only crime was walking into a grocery store with a gun on his hip.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 3

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 7:56:57 AM

Fightdirecto

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Joined: 8/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a sign on those who choose to carry saying "Stay Away - I'm potentially your murderer".

Sort of like the sign janitors put up after they've just mopped the floor "Dangerous - Slippery Floor" or the road sign in mountainous areas "Danger - Watch Out For Falling Rocks".

BUT (keeping the 2nd Amendment under consideration) you are not preventing them from carrying - just requiring them to effectively warn others of the potential danger from them.

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 4

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 8:07:34 AM

driver61

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Joined: 9/10/2011
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What is known as "open carry" is already legal in many states. Pennsylvania being one of them,where i live. I believe it shows only that one is willing to defend oneself, to protect themselves with any force necessary.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 5

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 8:12:48 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

It could also say "shoot me in the back without warning, THEN take my gun and loot."

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to driver61)

Post #: 6

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 10:25:09 AM

LoreBook

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Joined: 2/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

One of the things I like about concealed carry is the perpetrator never knows if his potential victim is carrying or not. By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

This is my objection to the idea.

_____________________________

WITHOUT "ART" THE EARTH IS JUST "EH"

LLT

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 7

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 10:40:32 AM

hardcybermaster

Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

One of the things I like about concealed carry is the perpetrator never knows if his potential victim is carrying or not. By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

Brilliant, so everyone not carrying a gun is a victim.
I guess I shouldn't complain. With a bit of luck all the sensible people will stay out of harms way and all the stupid people will shoot each other.

Ah well, doesn't hurt to dream a little

_____________________________

insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

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(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 8

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 10:43:35 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a sign on those who choose to carry saying "Stay Away - I'm potentially your murderer".

If you open carry there are two signs on your back, and that ain't either of them.

1. Blindside me.

2. Wanna free gun?

K.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 9

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 10:47:17 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Brilliant, so everyone not carrying a gun is a victim...

With a bit of luck all the sensible people will stay out of harms way and all the stupid people will shoot each other.

Good luck with that. Do you favor any particular kind of flowers?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3676008

K.

(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 10

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 10:48:41 AM

ShibsStories

Posts: 132
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline

Seeing guns a lot more commonly visible is likely to freak a lot of people out.
Even when those carrying do not mean to be intimidating, they will be.

I feel there are other reasons to not like the idea, but they are still swirling around in my head.

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(in reply to hardcybermaster)

Post #: 11

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 11:28:41 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

My modest sugestions...

Anyone,reguardless of who they are or not.....who shoots someone......for any reason.......

Anyone,regardless of who they are or not.....who shoots someone......for any reason.......

1. Must call 9/11 immediately.No excuses.Not doing so means automatic arrest and charges.This is in reference to the guy shot by his neighbor arguing over trash who was left to bleed-out while the shooter gloated over him.

2.Must be drug tested immediately.If they`re going to blood test welfare recipients.....they should at the very least be blood testing characters like Zimmerman.

3. Anyone carrying a gun MUST have a liability insurance policy....much like car insurance.A double policy if you want to conceal your weapon.

4.A shifting of the burden of proof to the shooter.....to justify the shooting.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to ShibsStories)

Post #: 12

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 1:37:44 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

At least once a week, it seems, there is an op-ed or editorial regarding guns, gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. Some say that we need fewer privately owned firearms, some say we need more individuals to be armed, some propose an equivalent “Firearms Operator’s License” similar to a “Motor Vehicle Operator’s License”, and many other, often conflicting positions/arguments.

I now add another proposal, and solicit your comments:

The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:

quote:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

PROPOSED:

A FEDERAL LAW REQUIRING THAT ALL HANDGUNS, RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS MUST BE VISIBLE AT ALL TIMES, WHEN CARRIED BY ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN.

CONCEALING A FIREARM ON ONE’S PERSON WOULD BE A FELONY UNDER LAW, SUBJECT TO FINE OR IMPRISONMENT AND CONFISCATION/DESTRUCTION OF THE FIREARM WHICH HAD BEEN CONCEALED.

Such a law would not violate the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as it would not prevent people from keeping and/or bearing firearms - just prevent them from hiding them from public view. Public safety would be enhanced if every American citizen could tell, at a glance, which of their fellow American citizens was armed and potentially dangerous to them.
yeh need to know who is going to shoot back when they rob the bank or rape your little girl.
For example, who would try to cut in front of another person at the check-out counter at the supermarket if they could see that the person they might be cutting in front of had a visible .44 Magnum revolver hanging from their belt?

What New York Yankees fan would speak badly of the Boston Red Sox if he could clearly see that the man standing next to him was carrying a .12 gauge shotgun and wearing a Boston Red Sox baseball cap?

Would someone try to rob a bank if they could see, at a glance, that 50% of the customers in the bank all had assorted handguns holstered to their belts?

it infringes on the right to bear by telling me HOW to bear.

I have the right to bear any damn way I want to bear.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 13

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 1:42:08 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a sign on those who choose to carry saying "Stay Away - I'm potentially your murderer".

awww really? here I thought it painted the picture they were my protector! whats up with that murder shit anyway?

Sort of like the sign janitors put up after they've just mopped the floor "Dangerous - Slippery Floor" or the road sign in mountainous areas "Danger - Watch Out For Falling Rocks".

BUT (keeping the 2nd Amendment under consideration) you are not preventing them from carrying - just requiring them to effectively warn others of the potential danger from them.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Fightdirecto)

Post #: 14

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 4:07:47 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir
One of the things I like about concealed carry is the perpetrator never knows if his potential victim is carrying or not. By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a target on those who choose not to carry saying "choose me -- I'm a victim".

This.

And passing a law that is only going to affect law abiding citizens is as effective as taking attendance by asking everyone who isn't there to raise their hand.

I have a friend who is a cop in Cleveland. His opinion is that anyone who open carries (which is legal in Ohio) is a complete moron since then everyone will know you are carrying. His recommendation is to get your CCW so the criminals don't know if you're carrying or not.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 15

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 4:19:23 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

NC has a constitutional provision stating that the right to keep and bear does not allow for the carrying of arms concealed. Yet the cops have always done it (no constitutional exception for LEO). We have state sponsored carry permission (CC) too. Law? What law?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to DesideriScuri)

Post #: 16

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 4:27:19 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

My modest sugestions...

3. Anyone carrying a gun MUST have a liability insurance policy....much like car insurance.A double policy if you want to conceal your weapon.

4.A shifting of the burden of proof to the shooter.....to justify the shooting.

Requiring insurance, under any circumstance, is much like a poll tax. It can keep people from exercising their rights (and/or privileges). It also shifts the responsibility away from the person to the insurance policy.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/25/2012 4:28:44 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 17

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 4:45:43 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

A FEDERAL LAW REQUIRING THAT ALL HANDGUNS, RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS MUST BE VISIBLE AT ALL TIMES, WHEN CARRIED BY ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN.

CONCEALING A FIREARM ON ONE’S PERSON WOULD BE A FELONY UNDER LAW, SUBJECT TO FINE OR IMPRISONMENT AND CONFISCATION/DESTRUCTION OF THE FIREARM WHICH HAD BEEN CONCEALED.

Just at first blush: What about when I'm in my car, my weapon in my holster on my hip (not to mention the bitch it would be to get the seat belt buckled)? Do I unholster the weapon and brandish it, out the window or does every cop who pulls me over for a speeding ticket automatically have a "built-in" criminal charge against me?

Also, what others have said; (paraphrasing) in states with lax gun laws, there's less crime just because the potential perps have no idea who may or may not be carrying. They're not as brazen.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/25/2012 4:47:02 PM >

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Post #: 18

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 4:49:33 PM

hardcybermaster

Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

Brilliant, so everyone not carrying a gun is a victim...

With a bit of luck all the sensible people will stay out of harms way and all the stupid people will shoot each other.

Good luck with that. Do you favor any particular kind of flowers?

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3676008

K.

as usual you missed a bit, I did say it was a dream.
Anyway, just planted my sweet peas, they smell lovely and just keep on flowering if you cut them.
America has so many good things going for it, if only it would chill the fuck out on guns and religion.
Doesn't anyone ever see the irony of such a religious god fearing country killing so many other people and letting it's own citizens kill each other so easily?
It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad

_____________________________

insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

vanilla burger flipper

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 19

RE: A Modest Proposal Regarding Guns, Gun Ownership And... - 3/25/2012 8:28:59 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

By requiring the weapon to always be visible, you are painting a sign on those who choose to carry saying "Stay Away - I'm potentially your murderer".

If you open carry there are two signs on your back, and that ain't either of them.
1. Blindside me.

2. Wanna free gun?
K.

Agreed.

Incidentally, we've had one robbery around here in the 25 years I've lived here. They stole...my neighbor's gun collection.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 20

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