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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 6:52:33 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		This entire fight is ridiculous. When Clinton tried to overhaul this country's sick care system, the Republicans wanted the mandate. Newt Gingrich was all for it. Clinton wanted a public option--which is why his endeavors failed (that and he put Hilary in charge of writing the proposal).

We pay more for health care in the US than any other country. We are also the only country that does not ensure every citizen has comprehensive, preventative care. Medicaid no longer works, not since Congress passed, and Clinton signed, a bill that allowed private insurers to stick their hands into the Medicaid pot via HMOs.

If the mandate is overturned, the only options would be to also overturn the law that says anybody who shows at an emergency room gets treated or provide a public option. But I've read some stats that say that only 10% of the population would actually be affected by the mandate. The rest of us are already covered in some way or will qualify for a subsidy.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:04:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		[image]http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2009/06/17/horsey-health-insurance_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a332b26[/image]

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/27/2012 7:06:54 PM >

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:07:04 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		If the individual mandate is declared unconstitutional, why not just go with federal tax funded state managed single payer? I wish the Supreme Court could change it to single-payer instead of having to go through the bickering do nothing Congress again. Even when Democrats controlled the House and Senate, the stupid Blue Dogs aka Republicans in disguise blocked the public option. I hate the US and so wish I had been born in a country where health care is considered a right. A country without cruel greedy people complaining about paying for someone else's healthcare knowing innocent people are dying every day because they're poor and sick.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 3/27/2012 7:09:48 PM >

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:10:40 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		It's really sad, isn't it, how selfish many people in this country are.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:12:36 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Well, technically, if it's a mandated payment, according to previous SCOTUS decisions, it's a tax - i.e., Social Security payroll taxes are taxes.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:18:49 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		FR

Yeah, it MUST be selfishness. It couldn't possibly be because the feds are overstepping their boundaries again


What the government can GIVE you, they can TAKE AWAY from you.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 7:29:23 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Yep, they can sell your job to China, tank the whole fucking economy and then foreclose on your house, just like that, the bastards.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 8:11:32 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

Yeah, it MUST be selfishness. It couldn't possibly be because the feds are overstepping their boundaries again


What the government can GIVE you, they can TAKE AWAY from you.


So if the government provided someone without heathcare insurance ...healthcare services...that,would be worse that getting no care at all?

Please explain how healing someone is evil or bad government or not good somehow?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/27/2012 8:12:14 PM >

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 8:15:26 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		IF, and it's a great big, all caps IF, we are going to have the government running healthcare, then I think single-payer would be the greatest invitation to fraud and abuse possible, ushering in a spiral of ever increasing bureaucracy, and diminishing quality and comfort of care.

We would need to nationalize, and that comes with a whole host of issues, itself.



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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/27/2012 8:22:44 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		And I can see how it would reduce a whole lot of fraud.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 5:16:13 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Obama on Obama -

But back during the 2008 campaign, Obama argued strenuously against the individual mandate. In a debate in South Carolina, he said: "A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasises lowering costs."

In February 2008, he said that you could no more solve the issue of the uninsured with an individual mandate than you could cure homelessness by ordering people to buy a home:

Obama felt so strongly about the issue that he even cut an ad attacking Clinton for her support of the individual mandate. "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan?" the April 2008 ad asked. "It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't."

We need Batman. Twoface is back in town.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/28/2012 5:25:56 AM >

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 5:31:55 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		DefiantBadGirl, It's not to late. If you don't like living in the United States you can always move. I hear that Cuba has a wonderful health care system.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 5:45:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Obama on Obama -

But back during the 2008 campaign, Obama argued strenuously against the individual mandate. In a debate in South Carolina, he said: "A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasises lowering costs."

In February 2008, he said that you could no more solve the issue of the uninsured with an individual mandate than you could cure homelessness by ordering people to buy a home:

Obama felt so strongly about the issue that he even cut an ad attacking Clinton for her support of the individual mandate. "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan?" the April 2008 ad asked. "It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't."

We need Batman. Twoface is back in town.


LOL.  It doesnt pay to try to have discussions with teabaggers, they lie, they pontificate, but without any sort of logic, reason or fact.

It may surprise you to know that the president does not introduce legislation into congress (we have laws against that you see) and while he can write up a bunch of proposals, nobody has to pay attention to them (and they didn't) this was not what he had proposed for healtcare, and congress came up with something really much less in terms of actual fix, with some pretty hefty help to the insurance industry (who lobbied the fuck out of it and wrote most of the actual language) but it is the law of the land at the moment.

Now, the rat-poison republican bills, the Republican destroyers of the country bills, the capitulist sniveling servile teabagger neo-con corporate welfare bills, went by other names.

This got tagged colloquially as Obamacare, but was not what he proposed.

So, as we examine any hypocrisy here, lets focus in the right place.

The twoface is from the minority party in the senate and majority party in the house.



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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:12:06 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I hate the US and so wish I had been born in a country where health care is considered a right. A country without cruel greedy people complaining about paying for someone else's healthcare knowing innocent people are dying every day because they're poor and sick.


Innocent people die every day in various ways. I'm sure you could devise a plan to protect them all from whatever folly might befall them.

Here's an example. Swimming pools. All pools, public or private, are required to have a lifeguard at all times. If a lifeguard cannot be afforded the cost shall be shifted to those who can pay; taxpayers. Problem solved.

Cost shifting is a prerequisite where "X" is declared a right, as not everyone shall be capable of affording to exercise that right. Anything can be declared a right which enriches the life and longevity of the individual.

Physical exercise is a right, right? So, say, all golf greens fees fall under the prerequisite of cost shifting. Same for ski lift tickets. Snorkeling excursions to the Bahamas. Running shoes.

It's just right, right? Why should only cruel greedy people who complain about paying for someone else have access to all the good stuff?

I mean, it isn't greed that's behind people demanding the cost shifting onto others so as they can enjoy it too, now is it? How could it be? They have a right to it. Forcing Jack to pay for Jill's Right is hardly cruel. Matter of fact, the more Jack pays for Jill the better he should feel. He's just paying his fair share.






_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:24:39 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Obama on Obama -

But back during the 2008 campaign, Obama argued strenuously against the individual mandate. In a debate in South Carolina, he said: "A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasises lowering costs."

In February 2008, he said that you could no more solve the issue of the uninsured with an individual mandate than you could cure homelessness by ordering people to buy a home:

Obama felt so strongly about the issue that he even cut an ad attacking Clinton for her support of the individual mandate. "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan?" the April 2008 ad asked. "It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't."

We need Batman. Twoface is back in town.


LOL.  It doesnt pay to try to have discussions with teabaggers, they lie, they pontificate, but without any sort of logic, reason or fact.



Keep on




_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:30:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		QED.  And the logic and fact contained therein was?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:33:32 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

[image]http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2009/06/17/horsey-health-insurance_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a332b26[/image]

Lemme help ya out there...



K.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:33:46 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Obama on Obama -

But back during the 2008 campaign, Obama argued strenuously against the individual mandate. In a debate in South Carolina, he said: "A mandate means that in some fashion, everybody will be forced to buy health insurance. ... But I believe the problem is not that folks are trying to avoid getting health care. The problem is they can't afford it. And that's why my plan emphasises lowering costs."

In February 2008, he said that you could no more solve the issue of the uninsured with an individual mandate than you could cure homelessness by ordering people to buy a home:

Obama felt so strongly about the issue that he even cut an ad attacking Clinton for her support of the individual mandate. "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan?" the April 2008 ad asked. "It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't."

We need Batman. Twoface is back in town.

This is a silly game, on both sides. For years, Republicans argued the "mandate" was a "responsibility." Insurance rates are a $1000/year higher than they need to be because we're covering people who walk into the emergency room w/o insurance. And the "Obama" plan is the Republican answer to Clinton's plan.

The title of this thread is asinine -- some justices are skeptical, others are not. Yet another silly game.

We'll have to wait and see. But having a plan in place is 70 years overdue.

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RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:34:24 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

QED.  And the logic and fact contained therein was?



That you're evidently not tall enough for this ride.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: MSNBC: Supreme Court expresses skepticism over cons... - 3/28/2012 6:35:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

DefiantBadGirl, It's not to late. If you don't like living in the United States you can always move. I hear that Cuba has a wonderful health care system.

If you can't have a discussion with the grownups, go watch the talk shows. Or perhaps the cartoons.

The average person in the U.S. has a net worth of $47,000. The average person in OMG Socialist Canada has a net worth of $97,000.

Guess why.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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