Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: 450 Million Bullets


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: 450 Million Bullets Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 11:42:09 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People are missing the point, so I'll clarify...

For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing any high-performance bullets?

It's marketing. Pretty much all JHP rounds used by law enforcement these days can be classified as "high-performance". Federal HST is used by many local, state and federal law enforcement agencies because it offers decent expansion and limits over-penetration. You're getting your knickers into a twist over nothing. There's nothing secret or sinister about any of this.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 11:50:20 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Thats a quotum for the next 5 years.
Reduce the world population by 7%.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 1:42:49 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You're getting your knickers into a twist over nothing. There's nothing secret or sinister about any of this.

Obviously there's no "secret" about it. The story quotes a press release. But 450 million rounds is a helluva lot of ammunition for a domestic police agency. It's way more than training and normal operations would require having on hand; you don't waste high performance hollow-points for training and target practice; and there is no reason to stockpile that much ammunition unless you anticipate the possibility of needing it. So the question arises, what kind of scenario would require that kind of suppression?

K.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 2:04:46 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Maybe they simply got a good deal and decided to take advantage of it for future use? Kinda the same as people will buy tons and tons of toilet paper when it's on sale at a really good price. No one's gonna use that much tp anytime soon but why not stock up for a cheap price? LOL


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 2:46:36 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
So the question arises, what kind of scenario would require that kind of suppression?


for the next round of OWS protests? or maybe they are anticipating mass riots if the R's win the next election..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 3:16:35 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats......


IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract.

You can bet this contract includes pricing for a LOT more than just .40 caliber rounds. My guess is the IF the entire contract value was just spent on .40 caliber rounds it would give the numbers quoted.

In reality, the government has put out for bid pricing on a bunch of small items under a single IDIQ contract and will purchase a wide variety of those items instead of sinking all of the funding into .40 caliber PISTOL rounds. What's more, it's unlikely that the contract will be funded to it's limit as the government seldom purchases the full amount allowed under IDIQ contracts.


When you buy in massive bulk and try to deal with Federal procurement requirements (e.g. have to shop like the Federal government), it's a stupid waste of money to buy ammunition and other cheap items in quantities that are less than 1000 units (or sometimes 10,000 units) at a time. The IDIQ contract is a way for individual organizations in the government to buy small amounts of things like ammunition while still getting the cost savings of buying in bulk prices.

I know it's not advertised in the press, but the Government DOES do a good job of shopping around for bargain prices on many things. It's the things they screw up and pay way too much for that make the news instead. Trust me when I say that the U.S. Government knows how to get small arms ammunition (e.g. pistol, rifle, and shotgun rounds) at bargain basement prices.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 3/30/2012 3:23:06 PM >

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 3:37:27 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		what kind of a fucking answer is that muttling?
People don't want the truth or a common sense answer they want conspiracy and theory.
You're no fun at all, Kirata posted a perfectly good bit of panic inducing bullshit and you have stopped it just like that.
BOOOOOOOOOOOO

_____________________________

insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

vanilla burger flipper


(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 3:57:45 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		nm


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/30/2012 4:54:51 PM >

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 3:59:00 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

You're no fun at all, Kirata posted a perfectly good bit of panic inducing bullshit and you have stopped it just like that.

I'm sorry it scared you. I was just asking a question. Apparently your mind went somewhere wild with it.

I apologize. Try to relax.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/30/2012 4:00:27 PM >

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 4:08:42 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing any high-performance bullets?

Low or average performance bullets used to work fine until the BigMac and Fries was invented. I blame the parents.


_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 6:05:08 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Okay, I hate to fan the tinfoil-hat conspiracy flames but...

Department Of Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Bullets



The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and its Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) office is getting an "indefinite delivery" of an "indefinite quantity" of .40 caliber ammunition from defense contractor ATK.

U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over five years, according to a press release on the deal. The high performance HST bullets are designed for law enforcement and ATK says they offer "optimum penetration for terminal performance."

For precisely what the fuck does Homeland Security anticipate needing 450 million high-performance bullets?

K.


That's really only fewer than 2 million bullets per each if you consider there's only a few hundred of these guys.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 3/30/2012 6:39:37 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 6:05:14 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling
As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats......

IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract.

no doubt but.. why the friggin press release? The govt buys a lot of shite, does it send out press releases on all of them??? It seems to be an odd purchase to do that with.. or is it illogical to expect the govt to be logical?

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 7:12:31 PM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling
As a government contractor, I can shed some understanding on this contract to those who are willing to listen instead of wear tin foil hats......

IDIQ contracts such as this one aren't uncommon. They are a way for the government to set up bargain prices for things they need in large quantity, but have trouble giving a single large order to obtain. An IDIQ contract creates a list of items they can purchase as needed at prices set by the contract and gives an overall not to exceed amount for the contract.

no doubt but.. why the friggin press release? The govt buys a lot of shite, does it send out press releases on all of them??? It seems to be an odd purchase to do that with.. or is it illogical to expect the govt to be logical?



There's a press release with every major contract award. It's part of public notification requirements under Federal procurement regulations.


This said, the government hasn't actually purchased anything yet. An IDIQ contract just establishes prices with which the government can purchase things. It's not uncommon for companies to with "blue ribbon" IDIQ contracts (e.g. contracts where you win but the government doesn't actually buy ANYTHING so all you get is the letter saying you won which we call the "blue ribbon.")


You can go with a man who has done contracting with the government for 15 years or put the tin foil hat back on. Either way, this is my last response to this thread. Have a nice day.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 7:33:54 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

You can go with a man who has done contracting with the government for 15 years or put the tin foil hat back on. Either way, this is my last response to this thread. Have a nice day.

Excellent. I hope you're a man of your word, because the way you've been insulting anybody who doesn't fall for your question-begging was starting to make me think this was becoming a religion thread. You have a nice day too.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/30/2012 7:35:58 PM >

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/30/2012 8:09:58 PM   
jessica6


Posts: 18
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Cumberland, MD, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

There's a third: the factory is in somebody's district.


lol! there's one like twenty minutes from here, I went on a tour once, had to get security clearance :-p
I'm not sure if they make the bullets there, I think the one near here they build the bigger stuff like tank shells to missiles, ATK makes like everything though

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/31/2012 12:16:46 AM   
VanessaChaland


Posts: 362
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		Its just the continuation of the government contracts for quid pro quo. You elect me, I'll award you contracts.

_____________________________

If you want to know more about me and my interests, Google my name.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/31/2012 7:16:19 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling
There's a press release with every major contract award. It's part of public notification requirements under Federal procurement regulations.

I expect any company that bids needs to know who they lost out to and at what price... and i expect the govt puts that on its website.. Maybe this was more a case of the press wanting something a little more sensational to report on.. bullets and what they can do to a person's body do tend to be a tad sensational.. ya know, compared to how many toilets they just bought..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/31/2012 7:53:20 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent.

That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years.


People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/31/2012 8:32:34 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent.

That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years.

People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE.

Yes, I'd say it seems excessive. Anticipating a possible need for thousands of agents to expend 7500 rounds of ammunition per agent per year suggests a scenario of some seriousness. But perhaps more troubling is the fact that some people are so frightened by anybody asking questions that they need to find some way to cast aspersions on their mental state or motives.

K.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 450 Million Bullets - 3/31/2012 10:18:00 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

There are 20k ICE employees. it's a 5 year contract. So that's 4500 rounds per ICE employee. I think it's safe to assume all ICE employees are not armed so assume say 7500 rounds/year/agent.

That seems excessive but it is the top end of a contract meant to provide their ammo needs for at least the next 5 years.


People who are frightened by big numbers are a bigger threat to the US than ICE.

People who miss the point concern me more.

The DHS is nothing but theater. They don't need ANY bullets. They don't need personnel. They don't need funding. They are a paper tiger to create the illusion of doing something.

That this something involves stocking up on ammo suggests the theater would like to be a threat. I'd rather they didn't go that route. But this genji is long out of the bottle, and we've going to have to learn to live with what our over-reactions have created.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: 450 Million Bullets Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094