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Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimmerman... - 3/31/2012 4:47:53 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

quote:

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/31/2012 4:48:21 PM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 3/31/2012 5:48:34 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
quote:

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.
His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.



But, but, but....what about all the blood from his broken nose and gashed head? These voice dudes must be racists.
(sarcasm, btw)

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 6:51:53 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		The usual routine at trial seems to be dueling expert witnesses.
Absent that, the case just got much much darker for Zimmerman.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 7:00:56 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The usual routine at trial seems to be dueling expert witnesses.
Absent that, the case just got much much darker for Zimmerman.

Not necessarily. Trayvon Martin's father couldn't identify the voice as his son's. And this super-duper "Easy Voice Biometric" software is a new and untested product. It was only just released on March 1st, the website is kinda dorky, there is no technical information of any substance, and in particular no indication of any rigorous testing of the program's fitness for its advertised purpose.

K.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 7:21:24 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		Yes.
There is a lot of air between Tom Owen and, say, an FBI analysis.
I also noted that Owen said he got a 48% voice match, and expected 90% or more for a positive identification, concluding with "reasonable scientific accuracy" that the screams were not from Zimmerman. I suspect that "reasonable scientific accuracy" is a term of art of Owen's own creation and would be ripped apart by any competent defense team. A simple failure to make a positive match is far from an exclusion, a possible problem I anticipated in another thread
My distrust of the media is such that I even wonder if the Sentinel could have consulted three or four "experts" before getting the results they wanted.
Even so, I think Zimmerman will want his own "expert" if tried, and I am confident he can find one more to his liking.

Right now, though, it's the only voice analysis we have....

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 8:36:02 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The usual routine at trial seems to be dueling expert witnesses.
Absent that, the case just got much much darker for Zimmerman.

Not necessarily. Trayvon Martin's father couldn't identify the voice as his son's. And this super-duper "Easy Voice Biometric" software is a new and untested product. It was only just released on March 1st, the website is kinda dorky, there is no technical information of any substance, and in particular no indication of any rigorous testing of the program's fitness for its advertised purpose.

K.


"couldn't identify"

Really.....?

And where did he say that?

Now, you`ll back up that particular piece of your bullshiting blather?


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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 9:17:20 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Now, you`ll back up that particular piece of your bullshiting blather?

The initial report suggested that Trayvon's father said it wasn't his son. The family's lawyer, however, denied this, correcting the information to the father saying only that he couldn't be sure. My post went with the lawyer, i.e., that he "couldn't identify," rather than claiming that he definitively said it wasn't. I can't find the full story with the lawyer's correction at this point, the coverage of the case has been so overwhelming that there are tons of links since then. But it is mentioned in the Examiner, which links to the WESH2 News report (video) at Yahoo News.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/1/2012 9:33:15 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 9:52:39 AM   
Owner59


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Read other piece of crap entitled "Was Trayvon Martin a drug dealer?


They`re only asking a question?




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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 9:53:53 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		You know, since the voices screaming for help don't appear to be George Zimmerman.

That means Trayvon Martin was screaming for help and "no no" before George Zimmerman executed him.

Fuck the slam-dunk manslaughter charge. Add this to the 'convenient' way Zimmerman ended his 9-1-1 call after being told he shouldn't pursue Trayvon Martin, so there wouldn't be any evidence of the coup-de-grace.

This is an argument for the death-penalty phase of sentencing for murder 1. I now understand the apparent slowness of the State's Attorney.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/1/2012 9:56:12 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 9:57:25 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"suggested"





Read other piece of crap entitled "Was Trayvon Martin a drug dealer?


They`re only asking a question?




I accept your apology. Next time (I may have mentioned this before) have the cards before you bet.

K.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 10:25:46 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		The tape of the screaming is excruciatingly long.There`s is no doubt that they are screams of fear and desperate cries for help.

It`s high pitched,like a young boy`s voice.It`s not the voice of a mature male.

Anything is possible tho.If George goes to trial speaking falsetto,it`s possible the screams are his.

George also says he was near unconsciousness.........when he pulled his trusty '9' to save his own life......

The screams we hear are NOT those of someone near unconsciousness.....they are quite lively,sharp and shrill and don`t let up,AT ALL.........until the shot.

George....... is just an average slob with average intelligence, with below average ability to lie.

He started lying the moment he shot the boy,to himself and then to the police and then to the media.

There are some many now, we`ve lost track of them.

But one that will stick and stick good, is Zimmerman`s claim that those horrible,frightening and desperate cries for help.....are his screams.

~~~~~~~~~

General reply:

I know I`m going to get it in the neck but I feel sorry for this guy.

Yes,he put himself there and he was the one who killed another,but I don`t think he had racial issues or any of that crap.

He was just dumb.And dumb and guns put together are always going to end bad.

And this "stand your ground" law.....like every other NRA fantasy revolves around the mistaken notion that everyone is intelligent and careful with/around guns and will act responsibly.

Jesus if anything is true,it`s that there`s a whole lot of dumb people out there.lol....Who don`t get any smarter with a 9mm in their waist.


For example....Bill Zimmerman....the guy who had to move after people started to think shooter Zimmerman lived at his home:

"William Zimmerman said he used his mother and stepfather's address to register a car, get a drivers license and vote when he lived there after college.

"This is really scary, and I'm concerned for my family," William Zimmerman said. "It's scary because there are people who aren't mentally right and will take this information and run with it

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/28/elderly-couple-forced-out-home-after-tweet-claims-killer-trayvon-miller-lives/#ixzz1qoIwgH2h



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/1/2012 10:30:22 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 10:44:38 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The tape of the screaming is excruciatingly long.There`s is no doubt that they are screams of fear and desperate cries for help.

Good point. After George pulled his gun, he must have stood there and let Trayvon yell for bit in order attract as much attention as possible to the scene before executing him.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/1/2012 11:08:48 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 11:11:24 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Always with the extreme and over the top......Over compensating is also a coping method for failure......

I think he pulled the gun out thinking like most dumbasses who pull guns,that the kid would submit.

Ask anyone in law enforcement ant they`ll tell you that that doesn`t always happen.Thieves and thugs who pull guns sometimes get attacked and or disarmed and their asses kicked.

Sometimes people don`t just do what you`re ordering/asking at gun-point.

They struggled over the gun and it went off.

That`s ten times more plausible than the man bites dog stories coming from the Zimmermans.

Zimmerman brought the gun into the picture.Saying he then needed to protected himself from being shoot said gun by shooting a law abiding citizen is bridge to far.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/1/2012 11:17:07 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 11:24:10 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think he pulled the gun out thinking like most dumbasses who pull guns,that the kid would submit...

They struggled over the gun and it went off.

So you think it was a tragic accident, you're just quibbling over the details? Okay, that's a possibility. According to Zimmerman's brother, Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun. But when asked, the brother didn't seem absolutely certain where exactly the gun was at that moment. He appeared to me to be assuming it would have been in Zimmerman's IWB holster, but maybe not.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/1/2012 11:26:38 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 11:49:58 AM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think he pulled the gun out thinking like most dumbasses who pull guns,that the kid would submit...

They struggled over the gun and it went off.

So you think it was a tragic accident, you're just quibbling over the details? Okay, that's a possibility. According to Zimmerman's brother, Trayvon went for Zimmerman's gun. But when asked, the brother didn't seem absolutely certain where exactly the gun was at that moment. He appeared to me to be assuming it would have been in Zimmerman's IWB holster, but maybe not.

K.

Tragic ?...yes.....very....for everyone, including Zimmerman......it`s really dopey how some folks take gun play so casually and don`t think about the consequences.


Accident ?......mmm not really.

More like criminal negligence...the same as giving a car to a drunk would be.

That dope brought the gun into it.

What happened with it is on him.

If he had brought a vile of poison and then claimed he had to kill someone he confronted with it because well.....there was a vile of poison in play...........that just doesn`t fuck`n pass the smell test.

He fucking brought the instant irretrievable death-maker and oops.......fucked up real bad with it.Why do you think the NRA rags have ads for "Accidental Death and Dismemberment" insurance on the back pages?

It`s because guns go off all the time when we don`t really want them to.And they don`t care where they are pointed.

But you`re correct in that George may have a teenaged boy`s voice ,a broken nose that doesn`t bleed and like most gun toters,little control(or liability) over what happens with his gun.






< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/1/2012 11:57:32 AM >

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 1:48:57 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I think he pulled the gun out thinking like most dumbasses who pull guns,that the kid would submit...

They struggled over the gun and it went off.

So you think it was a tragic accident,
K.


George Zimmerman choosing to arm himself is no accident.

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.

When you carry a gun, there are no accidents. There's just negligence.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 3:24:02 PM   
PeonForHer


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I'm inclined to put little emphasis on this voice recording. Nobody in great fear, and screaming, sounds anything like they do when they're in any other state of mind, I think. I could believe, easily, that it was Martin's. But, also, to me, it seems perfectly possible that the terrified voice was Zimmerman's: everything about the events leading up to Martin's killing smacks of Zimmerman having gone into some over-reactive terror. Inordinate fear *is* the sort of thing that happens with racists: that's why it's called a phobia.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 5:20:43 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
But you`re correct in that George may have a teenaged boy`s voice ,a broken nose that doesn`t bleed and like most gun toters,little control(or liability) over what happens with his gun.


Bullshit. More rhetoric. Are there idiots with guns? Yes. Are there idiots with knives? Yes. Are there idiots with slingshots? Yes. Let's ban everything, right?

The only people who would comply with a gun regulation and disarmament law would be the ones who are currently law-abiding.

I don't believe Zimmerman shot the kid because he was black. I do think he pulled the gun to scare the shit out of the kid. I think the kid went for the gun and Zimmerman shot him on accident, during the struggle.

Zimmerman is still liable for the death of Trayvon. Zimmerman is going to get seriously ass-fucked in court, and will probably have many "boyfriends" in prison, if he doesn't get the death penalty.


_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 5:31:55 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		I listened to the recording and in my opinion it is the boy who screams in a panic.

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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 6:43:30 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


Zimmerman is still liable for the death of Trayvon. Zimmerman is going to get seriously ass-fucked in court, and will probably have many "boyfriends" in prison, if he doesn't get the death penalty.



This qualifying as a death penalty case in Florida would be a stretch.

It's understandable that people want to see justice served should all the information being presented against Zimmerman turn out to be true.  However, there is so much lack of understanding of the law, regardless of how many times one or another person quotes Florida Criminal Code.

Same goes for the concept of prosecuting this as a hate crime.

Prosecutors are not going to enhance any charges simply due to public outrage.  If there is going to be a prosecution of this case (which I believe there will be), prosecutors are going to go for what they can reasonable expect a jury to return a guilty verdict.

Apparently, people have learned nothing from the Casey Anthony trial and the jurors who openly stated that had the charges been different (not enhanced, and asking for the death penalty although that case clearly qualified), they would have returned a guilty verdict.

I want to see justice served in this case, however, I do not want to see the prosecution throw in a bunch of enhancements that are going to make the case more difficult to "win."  It is better to go for a lesser charge and get a guilty verdict, and time needing to be served than to enhance the hell out of the event and have Zimmerman walk away with a not guilty verdict.

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