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RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 7:55:31 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I do think he pulled the gun to scare the shit out of the kid.


When you pull a gun on someone, the other guy gets the 'self-defense' claim.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 8:01:55 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		I agree. It was Martin screaming for help unless Zimmerman's voice never fell. While it would be rare for such a big man to have such a high pitched scream, it is possible, I suppose. A lot of gay men would sound like women on the phone. However, the tape of the 911 call, Zimmerman clearly is identifiable as a man.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/1/2012 9:52:29 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I do think he pulled the gun to scare the shit out of the kid.


When you pull a gun on someone, the other guy gets the 'self-defense' claim.


Not necessarily.  Especially if you pull your gun because someone is attacking you.  I'm not saying that is what happened, but I am saying that your rhetoric is really nothing more than you trying to spin anything anyone says to be "evidence" that Zimmerman is guilty.

You weren't there, neither was I or any of us here.  The only "evidence" we have seen so far is what has been published in the media, NOT the most reliable source for objective facts.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 1:33:35 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		The best examination I have yet read of this questionable "journalism" is found here: Screaming etc

Bottom line: Long on hype, very very short on track record; some serious internal contradictions...

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 1:40:25 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.


Out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 3:09:11 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.


Out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.


I hadn't read that the autopsy report was back anywhere.  Do you have a link?  Regardless of them finding THC in his system (if this is indeed true), it does not mean that Martin was high at the time of the incident.  We all know (or should) that unlike alcohol, THC can be found in your system well after the high is long gone.

Also, the "legal authority" issue is not so simple.  Zimmerman certainly didn't have any right to try to detain or question Martin, without first identifying himself as neighborhood watch (wouldn't THAT have been a novel idea).  At the same time, as a "mere" civilian, it would be unwise to follow someone you believe is on drugs.  Of course, since Zimmerman was carrying a loaded weapon, he no doubt felt that he could be "in charge" of the situation.  And therein lies the whole problem.  Even the residents of the community had complained about him being self appointed neighborhood watch.  Everything we have read about Zimmerman seems to imply this man was looking to be a hero in some way, shape or form.  It appears that all the complaints about him just served to egg him on to want to catch someone, anyone, doing something wrong so he could justify his past actions to his neighbors.

ETA:  Did my own search for a link on the autopsy report, and since this is still an active investigation, that report has not been released.  Therefore, it would be unlikely that you read a reliable source stating there was THC in his system.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 4/2/2012 3:17:05 AM >

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 4:17:47 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I do think he pulled the gun to scare the shit out of the kid.


When you pull a gun on someone, the other guy gets the 'self-defense' claim.


Not necessarily.  Especially if you pull your gun because someone is attacking you.  I'm not saying that is what happened, but I am saying that your rhetoric is really nothing more than you trying to spin anything anyone says to be "evidence" that Zimmerman is guilty.

You weren't there, neither was I or any of us here.  The only "evidence" we have seen so far is what has been published in the media, NOT the most reliable source for objective facts.


How do you get from my stated position:

"Zimmerman needs to explain to a Judge why Trayvon Martin is dead", and my pointing out that 776.041 OVERRIDES everything else in 776 UNLESS Zimmerman meets the requirements of 776.041, therefore Zimmerman's self defense claim becomes an active defense again, requiring him to explain his actions to a Judge.

to your characterization:

quote:

"you trying to spin anything anyone says to be "evidence" that Zimmerman is guilty."



PAY CLOSE ATTENTION:

**MY OPINION IS IRRELEVANT TO ZIMMERMAN'S ACTUAL GUILT. THAT'S WHY THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND DA FUCKING-UP FLORIDA CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW IS SO EGREGIOUS. BECAUSE THEY DENY ZIMMERMAN THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN WHY HE KILLED TRAYVON MARTIN TO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MATTER: JUDGE AND JURY***

**MY OPINION IS IRRELEVANT TO ZIMMERMAN'S ACTUAL GUILT. THAT'S WHY THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND DA FUCKING-UP FLORIDA CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW IS SO EGREGIOUS. BECAUSE THEY DENY ZIMMERMAN THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN WHY HE KILLED TRAYVON MARTIN TO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MATTER: JUDGE AND JURY***

**MY OPINION IS IRRELEVANT TO ZIMMERMAN'S ACTUAL GUILT. THAT'S WHY THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND DA FUCKING-UP FLORIDA CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW IS SO EGREGIOUS. BECAUSE THEY DENY ZIMMERMAN THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN WHY HE KILLED TRAYVON MARTIN TO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MATTER: JUDGE AND JURY***

**MY OPINION IS IRRELEVANT TO ZIMMERMAN'S ACTUAL GUILT. THAT'S WHY THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND DA FUCKING-UP FLORIDA CRIMINAL PROCEDURE LAW IS SO EGREGIOUS. BECAUSE THEY DENY ZIMMERMAN THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN WHY HE KILLED TRAYVON MARTIN TO THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO MATTER: JUDGE AND JURY***

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/2/2012 4:21:08 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 4:24:18 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.


Out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.


Well, "he's on drugs or something" isn't real an articulation of the element of any criminal act. And of course, we'd have to question Zimmerman as to why he came to that conclusion, and any professional training he may have. Given that THC tests out 30+ days, there's no indication that any was involved that night.

Of course, this ignores the fact that anyone who considers weed an issue is a total fucking moron, only fit for scorn and derision. I men, it's not 1957 or anything. It's the fucking 21st Century, and some research is saying that smoking pot prevents cancer. So OMG. NEGROS SMOKING MARIJUANA just makes those who attract attention to themselves by saying it look like ignorant fucking retards.

"I watched George Zimmerman smoke crystal meth while sitting in his vehicle. When finished Zimmerman put his stash, pipe and lighter away in the center console." WOULD BE an articulation of an element of a criminal act, however.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/2/2012 4:27:16 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 5:50:13 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Did my own search for a link on the autopsy report, and since this is still an active investigation, that report has not been released.  Therefore, it would be unlikely that you read a reliable source stating there was THC in his system.


I cannot track down where I read this. I do know Florida is an "open records" state; everything should be available soon.
At any rate: mea culpa. My bad.

Now can you tell me what law Zimmerman broke if he followed Trayvon?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 5:52:34 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.


Out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.


Well, "he's on drugs or something" isn't real an articulation of the element of any criminal act. And of course, we'd have to question Zimmerman as to why he came to that conclusion, and any professional training he may have. Given that THC tests out 30+ days, there's no indication that any was involved that night.

Of course, this ignores the fact that anyone who considers weed an issue is a total fucking moron, only fit for scorn and derision. I men, it's not 1957 or anything. It's the fucking 21st Century, and some research is saying that smoking pot prevents cancer. So OMG. NEGROS SMOKING MARIJUANA just makes those who attract attention to themselves by saying it look like ignorant fucking retards.

"I watched George Zimmerman smoke crystal meth while sitting in his vehicle. When finished Zimmerman put his stash, pipe and lighter away in the center console." WOULD BE an articulation of an element of a criminal act, however.


If you're through sitting up your strawmen: out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 5:55:41 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Did my own search for a link on the autopsy report, and since this is still an active investigation, that report has not been released.  Therefore, it would be unlikely that you read a reliable source stating there was THC in his system.


I cannot track down where I read this. I do know Florida is an "open records" state; everything should be available soon.
At any rate: mea culpa. My bad.

Now can you tell me what law Zimmerman broke if he followed Trayvon?


By just following. None. Of course, that doesn't mean he doesn't incur liability for his NEGLIGENCE in following Martin, nor his responsibility for anything happing as an effect of negligence.

But the most likely scenario here is, Martin just IGNORED Zimmerman. And that wound Zimmerman up, because in Zimmerman's mind, he's totally reasonable. ALL HE WANT'S is for Martin to wait for the cops. That's it. And Martin ain't listening.

So, what does Zimmerman do to get Martin to listen? Well, he's got a gun, and he's expressed frustration at people getting away all the time. So, isn't it's not beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin. THAT'S a crime.

If you're going to engage in speculation that is...

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/2/2012 5:56:02 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 6:03:17 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

George Zimmerman choosing to pursue Trayvon Martin without legal authority is no accident.


Out of idle curiosity, if I decide to follow a suspicious acting person (Zimmerman: "like he's on drugs or somethin" Fact: Trayvon was positive for THC), what "legal authority" is it that you think I need? Anywhere will do, but Florida will be most helpful.

I havent seen the toxicology report. Do you have a link?

Our friendly neonazis at "Stormfront" have been releasing a lot of fraudulent things about the case. That's where some of those "Thug boy" pictures came from. They weren't of the same kid.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 6:08:53 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Did my own search for a link on the autopsy report, and since this is still an active investigation, that report has not been released.  Therefore, it would be unlikely that you read a reliable source stating there was THC in his system.


I cannot track down where I read this. I do know Florida is an "open records" state; everything should be available soon.
At any rate: mea culpa. My bad.

Now can you tell me what law Zimmerman broke if he followed Trayvon?


The law against homicide.

Which I`m pretty sure is not an "if".

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 6:10:25 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		OMG! NEGROS SMOKING MARIJUANA SOMETIME IN THE PAST 30 DAYS!!!

Join the rest of us in the 21st century, Daddy-O. Time to leave SQUARESVILLE!

I thought the whole racist/marijuana thing was over in the 50's... Guess not.

Talk about a limp-dicked pathetic argument. I guess it goes over well in the usual racist circle jerks, eh?


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/2/2012 6:12:33 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 7:12:58 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

By just following. None. Of course, that doesn't mean he doesn't incur liability for his NEGLIGENCE in following Martin, nor his responsibility for anything happing as an effect of negligence.


You're funny. Negligent following, indeed.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 7:19:32 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

I agree. It was Martin screaming for help unless Zimmerman's voice never fell. While it would be rare for such a big man to have such a high pitched scream, it is possible, I suppose. A lot of gay men would sound like women on the phone. However, the tape of the 911 call, Zimmerman clearly is identifiable as a man.


You should have heard one of the ballplayers that lived in the house last summer. 6'5 and around 260 but when he laughed (which was often) it sounded JUST like a girl. Of course, that would get everyone else around laughing and it would feed and......Suffice to say there were a lot of sore ribs around the house last summer.

Fear makes your voice go up a couple of octaves as well.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 7:21:50 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Withdrew that in post #29......

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 7:33:13 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Withdrew that in post #29......

ty, I didn't see it until I had already posted.

I'll call your mea culpa and see it with one of my own.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/2/2012 12:00:37 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I thought the whole racist/marijuana thing was over in the 50's... Guess not.



I must say, I'm a bit baffled by the hoo-hah over THC anyway. Since when did being stoned make people more aggressive? From my experience, it works the other way, if anything.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Orlando Sentinal: 2 experts say screams ain't Zimme... - 4/12/2012 7:30:12 AM   
VideoAdminGamma


Posts: 2233
Status: offline 		Fast Reply

There is now an "All Things Zimmerman" compilation topic. Please post replies there and post a link back to this topic to reference what you are replying to.

Thank you for being a part of CollarMe,
VideoAdminGamma

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Profile   Post #: 40
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