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Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/3/2012 6:53:05 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/74779.html


"They tell it like it is at the beauty shop or barbershop.

I went for a haircut on Saturday. My hairdresser Carmelita and I got to talking about health care and the decision now in the hands of the Supreme Court

“Do you have health insurance?” I asked.

“No,” she said softly.

“Why not?”

“Are you kidding? It’s just too expensive. No way can I afford it.”

“Would you buy it if you could?”

“Of course!” she said, her brow furrowed at the idiocy of the question. “I’m still paying off a $3,000 health care bill from last year when I had walking pneumonia and finally went to see the doctor.

They ordered an X-ray of my chest, and my life hasn’t been the same since, trying to pay that medical bill. Of course, I’d have health insurance if I could afford it! Anybody would.”

And then she said something that turned the “individual health care mandate” opponents’ argument on its head: “I’m already forced to buy health care – but it’s in the emergency room. It’s almost bankrupting me. Do these guys think that’s my choice?”

A “health care mandate,” it seems, is in the eye of the beholder

And let’s be honest about where the pre-“Obamacare” emergency-room mandate is coming from.

That mandate comes from congressional acts, too — for example, the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which requires hospitals to treat anyone needing emergency care regardless of ability to pay.

Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market



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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/3/2012 11:53:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		No one is demanding free health care. What we are demanding is affordable health care. Last time I checked, stitches were 600 a piece in the ER.

Thats to pay for the new wing, the redecorated offices, the lovely paintings people see when they walk by too distracted over loved ones to bother to look, the nice water fountains on the outside, ect ect ect.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:16:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market





oh but if they are going to fix that problem they want a piece of everyones ass by forcing them to buy services provided by the gub. I cnat wait to see what they will force us to buy 50 years from now in the name of repairing their assinine negligence and disregard to their duty to PROTECT rights not abolish them.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:19:17 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No one is demanding free health care. What we are demanding is affordable health care. Last time I checked, stitches were 600 a piece in the ER.

Thats to pay for the new wing, the redecorated offices, the lovely paintings people see when they walk by too distracted over loved ones to bother to look, the nice water fountains on the outside, ect ect ect.


if you think that is high wait till they get done fucking that all up.

what has the gub EVER done that ran in the black?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 4:25:10 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		The part I get a chuckle at is when I hear some moron say "I dont want to pay for someone else's healthcare!". It shows just how dumb the person is on the subject of 'US Goverment 101". When you pay taxes to the US Goverment, that money is no longer your money, its the US Goverment's money. That money is used on a wide range of things from bullets, toilet paper, road construction, to paying medical doctors. $3.2 Trillion was the budget for 2012. Only a subsection of that total funding was applied towards medicine. Its misleading when people say "Last year, Americans paid, through the US Goverment 'X' dollars", because some whacko simply took how much was paid for medicine and divided by the total number of taxpayers. You and I, did not pay for Farmer Bob's health care; the US Goverment did.

Now, you as the individual taxpayer can contact your representative and senator(s) to plead that you dont want your money being spent "on someone else's healthcare". But once the money is in the US Goverment's hands, its the US Goverment's money.

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 4:26:11 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market





oh but if they are going to fix that problem they want a piece of everyones ass by forcing them to buy services provided by the gub. I cnat wait to see what they will force us to buy 50 years from now in the name of repairing their assinine negligence and disregard to their duty to PROTECT rights not abolish them.


Do you have to insure your car?


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 4:33:21 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The part I get a chuckle at is when I hear some moron say "I dont want to pay for someone else's healthcare!". It shows just how dumb the person is on the subject of 'US Goverment 101". When you pay taxes to the US Goverment, that money is no longer your money, its the US Goverment's money. That money is used on a wide range of things from bullets, toilet paper, road construction, to paying medical doctors. $3.2 Trillion was the budget for 2012. Only a subsection of that total funding was applied towards medicine. Its misleading when people say "Last year, Americans paid, through the US Goverment 'X' dollars", because some whacko simply took how much was paid for medicine and divided by the total number of taxpayers. You and I, did not pay for Farmer Bob's health care; the US Goverment did.

Now, you as the individual taxpayer can contact your representative and senator(s) to plead that you dont want your money being spent "on someone else's healthcare". But once the money is in the US Goverment's hands, its the US Goverment's money.

It would be quite simple to include a checklist and tick boxes on the back of the tax return forms. Just have the people paying the taxes mark where they want the money going. I'd suspect more of them will be happy with it going on social programmes (including other people's medical care) than being pissed away on military spending that doesn't produce anything useful (that bloody comanche helicopter and the chimp's attempt to relaunch the SDI programme are cases in point here).

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 5:16:09 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Good article. Here's more:

Walk the streets of D.C. and ask people who are working for minimum wage at the coffee shops whether they “choose” to not have insurance or whether the system essentially mandates it for them. Being forced out of the insurance market doesn’t mean one is absent from the health care market.

In fact, a person without insurance is arguably a disproportionately oversized player in the marketplace of health care, most likely having more impact on commerce — uncompensated care, debt, bankruptcies, collections, cost shifting — than the person with an insurance policy.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/74779_Page2.html#ixzz1r4bVMmB1

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 7:31:01 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I don't want to be mandated to contribute to defense spending through the IRS either.

Americans should rail against that--we could afford all kinds of stuff then, including tax cuts.

(in reply to kalikshama)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 7:35:11 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market

oh but if they are going to fix that problem they want a piece of everyones ass by forcing them to buy services provided by the gub. I cnat wait to see what they will force us to buy 50 years from now in the name of repairing their assinine negligence and disregard to their duty to PROTECT rights not abolish them.

Do you have to insure your car?


Not until I want to drive.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 7:38:54 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
I don't want to be mandated to contribute to defense spending through the IRS either.
Americans should rail against that--we could afford all kinds of stuff then, including tax cuts.


Agreed, except for the "we could afford all kinds of stuff then" part. Close our foreign bases. Bring our troops home. Slash the shit out of the Defense budget. Stop being World Cop.

Just don't take that money and spend it somewhere else. That doesn't help the budget at all. It is still spending more than we have.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 7:45:18 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I meant "afford" as opposed to "borrowing."

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 8:01:23 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Do you mean " not until I am in a car wreck" DS? Because that is a more apt analogy to the health care situation.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market

oh but if they are going to fix that problem they want a piece of everyones ass by forcing them to buy services provided by the gub. I cnat wait to see what they will force us to buy 50 years from now in the name of repairing their assinine negligence and disregard to their duty to PROTECT rights not abolish them.

Do you have to insure your car?


Not until I want to drive.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 10:21:41 AM   
Truthiness


Posts: 251
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Do you mean " not until I am in a car wreck" DS? Because that is a more apt analogy to the health care situation.



I think it's safe to assume he meant exactly what he said, seeing as that's kinda how the law works and all.

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 11:08:06 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The law governing car wrecks?

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:26:41 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Indeed, Congress has enacted over the years a complex web of authorizing statutes and rules that regulate health care and allow insurance companies to price people out of the market





oh but if they are going to fix that problem they want a piece of everyones ass by forcing them to buy services provided by the gub. I cnat wait to see what they will force us to buy 50 years from now in the name of repairing their assinine negligence and disregard to their duty to PROTECT rights not abolish them.


Do you have to insure your car?



Yup. Because I wanted to drive. I choose to drive therefore I must pay what it takes to do so.
With Obamacare I must pay even if I do not have the money or do not want health insurance or do not want health care.

We clear on the dramatic difference yet? Here is it again: Free person chooses. Un-free person must. Constitution keeps us free. Obamacare removes freedom. Therefore, Obamacare un-Constitutional.

Simple. This is why it will be a slam dunk. THis is why Obama must attack the Supreme Court who he oviously knows have made a decision the mandate is un-Constitutional, because he knows this failure will destroy him and he will go down in the history books as the President who was a Constitutional law professor who also spent two years enacting an un-Constitutional law and then tried to intimidate the Supreme Court with no success and then lost the election in November by a landslide, because who wants to vote for an obvious incompetent and a loser?

Not you I imagine.

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:31:17 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, other than all the other foolishness you wrote, who will he lose to in November?  Who don't we know about on the horizon?



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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:36:30 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		So, Aturas, are we to believe that the anti individual mandate people who don't want insurance or health care will refuse medical treatment if they need it? If they are in a car wreck, for example, and in an ambulance on the way to the ER, will they croak out with their last breath that they want to be left on the street corner instead?

I doubt it. I think the more likely scenario is that their dumb ass will get hauled into an ER, and if they don't have insurance, the hospital will be mandated to care for them, with the costs passed on to other patients, like me. That doesn't sound so free to me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Yup. Because I wanted to drive. I choose to drive therefore I must pay what it takes to do so.
With Obamacare I must pay even if I do not have the money or do not want health insurance or do not want health care.




_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:55:30 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

So, Aturas, are we to believe that the anti individual mandate people who don't want insurance or health care will refuse medical treatment if they need it? If they are in a car wreck, for example, and in an ambulance on the way to the ER, will they croak out with their last breath that they want to be left on the street corner instead?

I doubt it. I think the more likely scenario is that their dumb ass will get hauled into an ER, and if they don't have insurance, the hospital will be mandated to care for them, with the costs passed on to other patients, like me. That doesn't sound so free to me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Yup. Because I wanted to drive. I choose to drive therefore I must pay what it takes to do so.
With Obamacare I must pay even if I do not have the money or do not want health insurance or do not want health care.





I don't know, but they are certainly free to not take healthcare or not pay for something they don't want.

You are free not to pay for something you don't want and you are free to refuse treatment. You are taxed for what the founders called the "common good" and Congress thinks hospitals should not refuse treatment for extreme injuries for those who have no money and thinks this is a "common good" use of taxes. Does this make me "not free' since I pay taxes and so does that support making me 'not free' some more by forcing me to pay for insurance with the Obama mandate?

You bet. And if your example is wrong, two wrongs don't make a right. (pun not intended).

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RE: Being uninsured is a mandate, too...... - 4/4/2012 12:59:14 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, other than all the other foolishness you wrote, who will he lose to in November?  Who don't we know about on the horizon?





I also said by a landslide. Obama's presidency just collapsed. I saw it on nationwide TV last night.
Remember my post warning about the left coming unglued in November after the election? I was wrong. It is starting now.

I said by a landslide. Don't forget that.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

(in reply to mnottertail)
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