"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions?

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 2:47:14 PM)
When you buy health insurance you get a tax credit. Am I the only one who sees this?

Arturas -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 3:44:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle When you buy health insurance you get a tax credit. Am I the only one who sees this? No. Because fifty percent of Americans pay no taxes now. Are you suggesting this decrease? I'm for that.

mnottertail -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 3:49:55 PM)
Well, 30% of Americans under 18 years old or so, and 24% of Americans over 65 years old, and about 10% unempolyment.....yeah, I guess that easily 50% of americans dont make enough to be taxed.

SoftBonds -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 4:14:26 PM)
No, Arturas is complaining that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay income taxes, while ignoring the fact that they still pay FICA taxes, FICAMED taxes, Gas taxes, state taxes, county taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, etc. Therefore they don't pay taxes...

tazzygirl -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 4:48:38 PM)
Agreed. Huge difference between paying federal income taxes and paying "taxes".

erieangel -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 6:31:02 PM)
After earning $millions in profits in 2010, GE got a huge refund. And you complain that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay any federal income taxes??

tazzygirl -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 6:47:36 PM)
Actually, that story was not true... So how did the Times get the story so wrong? Well, thanks to a ludicrous American tax code, it’s extremely complicated to analyze any company’s tax liabilities even from the inside, let alone from the outside. The Times apparently got confused by a report showing a $3.2 billion “tax benefit” in 2010, which they mistook for an after-profit credit. The term actually refers to estimated pre-profit deductions and credits, which lower the eventual taxable income number on which GE gets billed by the IRS. It’s roughly analogous to mistaking personal itemized deductions on a tax return for a refund figure. That doesn’t mean that the issue of actually getting $3.2 billion in deductions and credits in a single year isn’t an important topic, and the lack of clarity on GE’s tax situation — even at GE, which Fortune and ProPublica describe in some detail — once again show the need for a flat, simple, and reasonable tax code that allows businesses to compete evenly without Congress picking winners and losers through hidden subsidies and penalties enforced at the IRS. But the Times’ reporting gave a completely false impression of GE’s actual status, and should be corrected. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ge-paid-taxes-in-2010-after-all/

Hillwilliam -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 6:50:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle When you buy health insurance you get a tax credit. Am I the only one who sees this? No. Because fifty percent of Americans pay no taxes now. Are you suggesting this decrease? I'm for that. BULLSHIT No taxes? That means they buy no gas, no goods and don't have a job. Quit parroting the crap you hear on FOX it makes you look as intelligent as they are.

DesideriScuri -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 7:52:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel After earning $millions in profits in 2010, GE got a huge refund. And you complain that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay any federal income taxes?? Be totally honest about this, erieangel. GE lost money on it's domestic businesses and made lots of profits in it's non-domestic businesses. Since they pay taxes in the country they are earning the money, they paid lots of taxes on their profits. Since the lost money in the US, they got a refund. Fucked up? Yup. Need to be fixed? Yup. Should an international company have to pay US taxes on profits made outside the US? No. You do know what they'll do if we start that, right?

DesideriScuri -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/5/2012 8:00:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle When you buy health insurance you get a tax credit. Am I the only one who sees this? See, now you're not telling the whole story, here. quote: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; Congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises. But, only for the enumerated purposes. Congress can't just collect a tax simply because it wants to. The General Welfare clause was not intended to mean what liberals are claiming, so PPACA isn't a Constitutionally enumerated power of the Federal Government. And, since it's not an enumerated power (nor is it a necessary and proper extension of an enumerated power), the Feds can't lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises.

joether -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 1:48:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri The General Welfare clause was not intended to mean what liberals are claiming, so PPACA isn't a Constitutionally enumerated power of the Federal Government. And, since it's not an enumerated power (nor is it a necessary and proper extension of an enumerated power), the Feds can't lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises. And the 2nd Amendment was never intended to allow crazy lunatics free and uncontrollable access to muskets that could fire 30 musket balls in under 3.4 seconds and being reloaded with another 30 musket balls 8 seconds later. In fact, they never intended anyone to have access to a musket; only those that belonged to 'A well regulated militia...' whose purpose was "...to the security of a free state..."; not for some phony 'neighborhood watch' idiot wasting a teenager with a bag of skittles and a can of ice tea! If conservatives are going to be 'liberal' with the viewpoint of the 2nd Amendment, Liberals can be 'liberal' with the ACA. One thing the founding father did understand is that as the country grew, so to should the constitution. As we better understood ourselves, the land beneath our feet, and what it meant to be a free nation....the constitution would grew with the nation. If we applied your view point that the constutution is unable to change and it is in fact, set in stone, then we have created 17 amendments that shouldnt be there. Why not go tell all the women they are now second class citizens and the blacks they are 3/5th of a white person. The goverment back in the late 18th century was to be a limited goverment for two reasons: 1) They didnt like goverments in Europe lording over the peons without mercy and 2) The USA wasn't exactly sitting on any huge deposits of gold, silver or precious stones (aka, they were dirt poor). Compare that to the USA of 2012, and it has a budget worth $3.2 trillion dollars. More than any nation in Europe's budget. Bigger than....ANY....other nation on the planet! If the foundering fathers were alive today, would they wish to see fellow Americans suffer when there was an easy solution at hand? They were God fearing men (well, most of them) that believed fellow Americans should take care of one another as per the 'Good Book'. The founding fathers didn't believe in a standing army for the country, and yet, we have the world's most ass-kicking military for the last seventy years! There is no way the founding fathers could even forsee the future with perfect accuracy. Nor any of the obstacles we would face as a nation. However, they did state the US Constitution could be changed to keep up with said times. If most Americans feel 'Provide for the General Welfare' means 'Take care of Americans with good health coverage', so be it. I'm curious DS. Which side of the health care 'fence' are you on? A) The side that says we should have the best laws and rules to govern good health care for all Americans. B) Allow only 'for profit' organizations to 'tax' the ill or eldarly and laugh all the way to the bank regardless of people's misery. I wonder what the founding fathers would say.

farglebargle -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 3:50:38 AM)
quote: But, only for the enumerated purposes. Congress can't just collect a tax simply because it wants to. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? I don't see that qualification written down. Unless you mean "Promote the General Welfare", but that's really a pre-amble thing and not Section I. So, please cite the text from the Constitution which says that.

MusicalBoredom -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 4:09:29 AM)
quote: Because fifty percent of Americans pay no taxes now. You do realize that 27% of the population is made up of children and 13% of the population is over 65 right? So this 50% of the population that don't pay taxes that certain groups keep talking about is made up mostly of people who are outside of the generally accepted working age group. I claim my kids as dependents. I pay their taxes. I don't consider them freeloaders. ETA: Sorry Ron, I just saw you already covered this.

thishereboi -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 5:11:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds No, Arturas is complaining that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay income taxes, while ignoring the fact that they still pay FICA taxes, FICAMED taxes, Gas taxes, state taxes, county taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, etc. Therefore they don't pay taxes... My ex roommate used to claim that he paid no taxes. He said that because he always got a refund every year. No clue whatsoever where that refund came from. [8\|]

Musicmystery -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 6:07:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: But, only for the enumerated purposes. Congress can't just collect a tax simply because it wants to. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? I don't see that qualification written down. Unless you mean "Promote the General Welfare", but that's really a pre-amble thing and not Section I. So, please cite the text from the Constitution which says that. The part that says we elect them.

Arturas -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 6:50:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds No, Arturas is complaining that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay income taxes, while ignoring the fact that they still pay FICA taxes, FICAMED taxes, Gas taxes, state taxes, county taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, etc. Therefore they don't pay taxes... Let me remind those posting here that the OP suggests a credit for buying insurance. Next, let me educate you in how credits work. Credits pertain only to Income Tax. In other words, theree are no sales tax credits, credits agains sales tax or county taxes or anything else mentioned. So, meantioning sales and other taxes has no bearing on the subject. Naturally. But it is a good dodge for a minute or two. So, back to the OP, what do we do with those who pay no taxes and therefore will have nothing to credit?

Arturas -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 6:53:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds No, Arturas is complaining that 50% of Americans are so poor they don't pay income taxes, while ignoring the fact that they still pay FICA taxes, FICAMED taxes, Gas taxes, state taxes, county taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, luxury taxes, etc. Therefore they don't pay taxes... My ex roommate used to claim that he paid no taxes. He said that because he always got a refund every year. No clue whatsoever where that refund came from. [8\|] I know. Many Americans make too little to tax. He included. Soooo, let me see if I got this right, yes, I think so: they make too little to credit for Obamacare mandatory premiums also.

mnottertail -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 7:00:40 AM)
Yup, you got that right, and therefore they will not pay the penalty, now you are catching the drift, you are almost at a gradeschool level of comprehension in this matter.

Arturas -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 7:01:32 AM)
quote: ....the constitution would grew with the nation. If we applied your view point that the constutution is unable to change and it is in fact, set in stone, then we have created 17 amendments that shouldnt be there. Yes. No. The original (base) Consitution is set in stone. The amendments do not change the base Constitution. They add things to it that do not conflict with the original base Constitution. These are called the "Bill of Rights" and spell out Rights. Sooooo, one can make amendments to the Consitution but one cannot erase or redefine the Consitution, for example, one cannot change the intent of the orignial Commerce Clause to require Americans to buy something they do not want to buy, but one could extend commerce regulation to future space commerce, to prevent illegal activities in commerce, so the Consitution can "grow" but cannot "change" in meaning.

mnottertail -> RE: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..." Any questions? (4/6/2012 7:08:08 AM)
The original commerce clause has no prohibition on the government forcing you to buy something you don't want.....so that argument is puerile. And the folly of the notion that amendments do not change the base constitution may be summarily dismissed by a simple reading (at gradeschool comprehension levels) of Art 1, Sec 2, and then sort of waltzing on down to the 14th amendment and give that one a little lookie see.

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