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RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/12/2012 10:30:13 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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I, of course, have zero experience with the breakup of a D/s dynamic -- not in the way you're talking about anyway. But I think a bit of common sense applies anyway.

In the end, I never had all the answers and neither did you. Both of us just stumble along doing the best we can to be something resembling wise. Don't mistake this situation as being any different than what came before. It isn't. It's just more confusing than most... largely driven by the deeply personal emotions which make it difficult to see clearly. Often times we are forced into making decisions were we don't have some.. or even all.. of the data we'd really like. In those cases, what else can be done but bowing to reality and making the decision? Generally, I like to leave about 600 exit strategies in such decisions if at all possible then monitor actual results closely. But sometimes you don't get to look. You just have to leap. So you do.

I don't think that was particularly relevant to your post. I'm not actually sure anything would be. I don't think there's a real question in there but I sympathize with your worry and I cringe at the burden of responsibility you bear right now. But hey, that was the price of the job, right?

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 21

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/12/2012 11:51:15 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I did have an early response written to address several comments made here. The computer ate it. The other place I kind of fail in these things.

One thing I do want to say is that people have been exceptionally kind to us about this whole thing. I want everyone to know how I appreciative I've felt about that.

There were other questions in there that I wanted to address to try to give a better picture of the situation. I may be taking them out of order. If I miss any, just ask again.

Yes, part of the problem here is that new information came to light. That's part of why this reassessment is going on in the first place. I agree with the poster who said if nothing changed, stand firm in the decision.

Des, you asked about My continuing to control him. This is going to sound really odd to some people, but if I'm controlling him, it's not because I'm trying to. If anything, it's his own internal enslavement to Me that is controlling him. That's a phrase I haven't used on these boards for some time, but I just got a real up close and personal example of just how deep internal enslavement can go.

Am I partially being led by My emotions? Well, probably. My personality style is to protect people, as I find is very common in Dominants when it comes to their submissives. Since I'm the one who made this decision, of course I feel responsible for it.

Jeff, you probably do have a better idea about this process than you are giving yourself credit for. What's happening here could be compared to that time frame that you were going to 'release' Carol from the M/s side of things. The only difference is that you weren't going to stop the entire relationship, just the authority dynamic part. The difference is that clip and I don't have the same relationship base as the two of you.

Red, no, I have no intention of being selfish or a martyr. It's easy to feel tempted into those choices, but I also try not to be an asshole. (Granted, I don't always succeed.)

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 22

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 12:18:24 AM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
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I don't think anyone can be "good" at breaking up. Or, if they are, would you want to be that sort of person?

The least bad way, it seems to me, is to say (in your words, changing as appropriate) "things have changed - the best course now for you - and for me - is to move on. It's been fantastic, but, it's over. I hope we can stay friends, but for now I need some time. Perhaps our paths will cross again soon. Be well."

Deep breath. Walk away. Cry buckets / kick the wall / pull legs off flies as appropriate.

Stick to your decision and minimise contact - less salt in the wound.

I don't know anything of your circumstance, but if you think the reasons for your decision were the right ones, and the outcome is the best for you both, then stick to your guns. If your sub didn't matter to you, breakup would be easy. Because you care, it's harder - but - it's because you care that you took the decision in the first place. Trust your judgement - after all he did - for years. Be well.

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 23

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 2:12:45 AM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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I saw clip's thread the other day, so I have a vague understanding of what this is about.

Whatever you intend to do, do it quickly. Uncertainty begats pain. And you cannot do this gradually or gently. Provided all provisions have been made for return to a separated existence, the separation must take place quickly and decisively.

And then you must not see each other. Anywhere. Including online. And I suggest your last command should be that he be happy.

I strongly suggest you consider that one or both of you may be in the bargaining stage which is a component of the grief cycle.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 24

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 3:26:47 AM

kitkat105

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
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I don't know the full story either but I want to second what peppermint said. Nobody's perfect, even the best Dominant, especially when you've shared something special with someone for 5 years. That's a lot of good times, bad times and just general togetherness. These (D/s & M/s) dynamics can be extremely intimate, possibly moreso than vanilla relationships so it would be very difficult for most to end the relationship knowing what was once there.

I wish I could offer better advice or somehow make this less painful for everyone involved. <hugs>

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(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 25

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 4:48:00 AM

Delilya

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I have nothing that I can say other than I wish you all the best.

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(in reply to kitkat105)

Post #: 26

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 6:06:04 AM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
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LadyP,

The one impression that I have gotten out of all this was that this decision was hard, and it was not a path that either you nor Clip would have gone to - a very specific circumstance drove it and it is an unhappy decision all round. I don't know if that is completely true, but my thoughts are based on that.

The Decisive Dom/me: BS. This concept that a Dominant must know the correct thing to do under every circumstance and handle it exactly right is BS.

Re-Evaluation: If a decision is made due to a specific circumstance, and the specifics of that circumstance change, then re-evaluation of that decision is possible...perhaps even necessary.

Balance: I have over the years I have known you, gotten a distinct feeling that you have concerns in your life around people being in the military and how WIIWD might conflict with concepts of codes of military conduct, etc. It is understandable given the people in your life. At the same time I know you are a person who believes strongly in being "authentic", and being fairly out and open. I think I am seeing how this struggle to balance both those needs are perhaps inspiring you to this post. Don't know if giving more thought to balance in these matters will make a difference, but I am suggesting you look at it.

Trained Dedication: This happens on both sides of the kneel in my experience. We enter into these dynamics and we give ourselves over to either the service or the care of another person. I believe it would be very hard for most people to -not- develop an internal dedication to that other person that would be very hard indeed to break. Your statement about Clip being yours even more now makes perfect sense to me. I think I would be feeling the same were I in a similar circumstance. For me, where I am right now is -right for me at the very core of my being- and if I were to lose that person who allows me to lay the groundwork for that core, I would be hard pressed not to cling to that and my heart would by nature seek to follow that truth.

As I said in my post on Clip's topic...I hope that some day the two of you are able to come back together - if not in service, then at least in friendship and open contact, and I am very sorry this has happened to all of you.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 4/13/2012 6:07:33 AM >

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 8:38:56 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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IE's a bitch. But it isn't your cross to bear. It's clip's responsibility to deal with. Because learning to break those implanted requirements is part of the healing process.

As far as owing those of us online anything, no. If the choice is between not telling stuff, and keeping the relationship strong, the requirements owed the health of the relationship come before telling anyone else anything. You can always be honest on what happened after the dust settles.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 28

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 9:24:05 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
...This is going to sound really odd to some people, but if I'm controlling him, it's not because I'm trying to. If anything, it's his own internal enslavement to Me that is controlling him....
Jeff, you probably do have a better idea about this process than you are giving yourself credit for. What's happening here could be compared to that time frame that you were going to 'release' Carol from the M/s side of things. The only difference is that you weren't going to stop the entire relationship, just the authority dynamic part. The difference is that clip and I don't have the same relationship base as the two of you.

Well, it's certainly true with that the first part I quoted sounds familiar... *chuckles*. I think of that as my "welcome to reality" moment. We can do all these things like collaring and releasing and making agreements and limits and boundaries. All of that is ... well... just talk. How Clip feels about you in his heart cannot and should not be changed by some agreement. I'm not talking about whether you are his Mistress/Owner/Domme or not. I'm talking about how he sees you as a human being. It's even worse than "IE" because it's founded on actual, objective reality... you.

Muddle through. Don't get mired in what you thought yesterday. Act on the actual cards in your actual hand today. Do what you believe to be best at any given moment. Consistency is only a virtue when it's also non-stupid. Do your best. (my, aren't I bossy?)

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 29

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 10:23:42 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
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I pride myself on trying to offer good advice and adding value to any conversation that I choose to enter. But I'm completely at a loss on this one. I have no wisdom to share. So all I can do is offer my support to both you and Clip during this difficult time.

Like you, I suck at breakups. But of course, what does it say about someone if they're good at breaking up?

I think I may know what Clip is going through. I remember how bad I felt the last time a Domme dropped me. We had established a relationship where she had demanded more control over small aspects of my life (e.g. what I eat, how much I can eat, what I wear, how often I exercise, what time I go to bed, etc.) than any other Domme had ever done. At first, I was resistant to that level of control. But once I fully gave in to it, it became a part of my day-to-day routine. And frankly, I benefited from it. I lost over 20 lbs. I felt healthier and more energetic. I dressed more stylishly.

So when things in her personal life (that had nothing to do with me) caused her to end our relationship, I was devastated. To use your terminology, I guess I had become internally enslaved. I longed for her control. I was happier when she was in control. Moreover, I realized that many areas of my life were better when she was in control.

I was very sad and hurt when she cut off our relationship. Particularly because she cut off communication as well. It's been almost 2 years since that happened, but I still find myself sending her text messages from time to time, just to say "hello". And the silence on her part hurts just as much now as it did when she first released me.

I don't know what happened between you and Clip. But perhaps my story can help you to understand what Clip may be going through. Hopefully, it will help you to find a way to ease the pain that he is likely to feel based on your decision.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 4/13/2012 10:26:15 AM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 11:29:32 AM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
Status: offline

LP (and clip)

I have read both threads, and from what I can gather, someone, somewhere, was threatening to out one or the both of you, if not your spouses as well. I have read about each person's journey and the things that they think about your situation.
I realize, you may have been coming here to vent, to use the boards as an interactive journal, and I can understand that as well.

No one ever said that you had to have all the answers, LP. No one ever said that you had to be the best, or even know how to, when it comes to splitting up. In life, if you really love someone, you shouldn't know how to let them go. Letting go is hurtful because it implies finality, an end, and no chance for a new beginning; I do not get the sense that is what either of you want, but at this time, that is how it has to be.

Allow me to say, (on the off chance that the person responsible for the outting is reading as well) that the coin has two sides. If they know of your life choices, then they too would have had to be involved in an alternate lifestyle activity. We live in an age where we have gay marriage, Mormons with 22 kids, babies having babies, men becoming women, women becoming men, and a vast plethora of things in the sexual realm that we can not imagine, even with all that any of us have seen in our lives. I wish I could understand how destroying someone else's happiness is a decent thing to do as a human, but then I think about the person that would do that, and I realize, they were probably raised by worms. I also think it's silly to allow someone that kind of power, but at the same time, I also know it can not be helped. I take a very Black Hand (Yeah, it's a V'tM reference) view on things like this; I will not hide who or what I am from people. It is not their life, it is not their choice, and they can kiss my ass.

That being said, Lp, I know that you have to do what is right and safe for you and for clip and for your significant others. My heart goes out to you because knowing that, I also know that the right and safe thing is seldom the easy thing. Only you and clip know the full extent of what is going on, none of us can pretend to know every aspect as you two do, and while I am sure any one of us would bear this pain for either of you gladly, just to save friends and respected community members, in the end, only you can clip can decided how to proceed. My suggestion is to analyze every angle of it, make sure that this is the -only- way, and make sure that you at least consider leaving a door open for the future, even if it is only a crack to let the light shine in.

My reply to your question, while already posted is worth saying again; Letting go is never easy, not when you love someone.

My heart goes to you both, and while you neither one know me, I offer you both an ear, a shoulder, and a place to vent and I wish you both the best that life has to offer on your journey-wherever it may lead.

Lithi.

_____________________________

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You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 31

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 2:42:07 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
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Why do ppl feel the urge to whine in a public? Call me crazy but this feels like the fox news show talking about some celb breakup which I really don't care about. So put on your big girl britches and enuff already. I really don't care who is dissing who. Best way to break up is cut off all contact... yea it's really that simple

BadOne

_____________________________

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 32

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 5:57:40 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

And just like the celeb breakup talk on tv....if you don't care, why listen (or read). Go to another channel (or thread) and don't be a dick........luci

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(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 33

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/13/2012 6:48:26 PM

Tantriqu

Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
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First, as sb's post above reminds us, trolldudes lifting their hindlegs and p*ssing all over the boards soaks in and ruins the foundation, which is why I've stayed away lately.
But I'm back just to offer condolence and support.

I agree we as Dommes should try to fix what we can, and when we can't fix the unfixable, be the ones to bite the bullet and end it.
Internally, though, hooboy, do I suck at breakups!, but I think if someone's really good at it, they're a psychopath and liar when they get to the part where they say, 'this is the hardest thing I've ever done'.
I freely admit I otherwise have a tendency to let unravelling relationships go on too long, usually because of stellar orgasms and other physical D/s pleasures, so I'm conscious of the responsibility, and don't want my sub to suffer far longer than necessary because I can't do what I know is right.
Intellectually you know what is right; doesn't mean it doesn't hurt and that it doesn't keep on hurting yourself and others. To mix a metaphor, it's like chemotherapy for cancer: causes pain and suffering for a long, long time to eventually help in the long run, and hopefully onto a new life.

Too bad it took something like this for me to tell you to add me to the list of your admirers.
Best wishes to you both.

_____________________________

"Then I did the simplest thing in the world. I leaned down... and kissed him. And the world cracked open." - Agnes de Mille

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 34

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 12:41:43 AM

SoulAlloy

Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline

I must say I suck at breaking up too, so I can't say how to make it easier.

Sometimes I think it would be great to be able to break up like Phoebe in Friends, with a hug and a smile, but I don't think that's possible in any relationship you've poured a heart and soul into only to find the dealbreaker.

The hardest thing I found was to give eachother space, to resist contacting the other half to see how they were doing. To manage to be friends again it was the only way - we had to learn how to live without eachother before being able to accept the other back into our lives.

_____________________________

"Better to be a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without" - Confucius

"It'll be alright in the end - if it isn't alright, it's not the end." - unknown

Kinky crossdressing Whovian

Host of the Preston (UK) Munch, 2nd Wednesday each month

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 35

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 5:51:22 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

My guess is that one of the hardest parts for you is from going from ninety to zero.
You were all in and you know that this decision is causing clip pain.
You are still all in even if he doesn't know it or feel it.

Don't worry over whether the decision you made was the right one; that will only cause you sleepless nights and heartache.
You made the decision that seemed to be the best one at the time with the information you had.

A note to clip:
I would delete the part in your profile that says you are actively seeking.
If someone is gunning for you then finding someone new will just give them more ammo and one can not go from being in a 5 yr relationship to being with someone else so soon.
It will also make you very vulnerable to people who really won't give a rat's ass about you the person.
This may help (the entire text of the book is here):
http://www.buildfreedom.com/content/books/survive/

A few words to SB: glad you are so perfect that you never need support from anyone; yeah, good luck with that.
p.s. your whine-detector is faulty.
You should send it back and demand your money returned.
You don't need the replacement; the instruction manual is a bitch to follow. Just steer clear from threads that might have whining in them and you should be all set.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 36

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 7:09:33 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Thank you for your contribution.

< Message edited by LadyPact -- 4/14/2012 7:21:30 AM >

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 37

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 7:12:32 AM

HisPet21

Posts: 395
Status: offline

Like many here, I don't know what has happened and why your relationship had to end. But also like many here, I can tell that you and Clip were extremely close, and this has got to hurt like a b*tch.

Sometimes, bad things happen to good people. It isn't usually fair, and it isn't usually right. In situations like that, when you know that the people in your life aren't playing fair or the circumstances are unavoidable, there isn't much you can do except to face the facts and respond the best way you know how. It seems to me that you did so, and while the decision you made wasn't easy, it was the decision that seemed most rational. Don't spend too much time worrying if whether or not, in the end, your decision will have turned out to be correct. Thinking like that will only muddle your rationale. You can't see the future; you have to us the facts available to you now to make the best decision now. If circumstances change, maybe then you can reconsider your decision.

I've never broken out of an intense D/s relationship before, so I can't imagine how rough this must be. I hope you two feel better, even if it takes some time and lots of hugs.

< Message edited by HisPet21 -- 4/14/2012 7:13:52 AM >

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 38

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 11:10:55 AM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Why do ppl feel the urge to whine in a public? Call me crazy but this feels like the fox news show talking about some celb breakup which I really don't care about. So put on your big girl britches and enuff already. I really don't care who is dissing who. Best way to break up is cut off all contact... yea it's really that simple

BadOne

I do not know LadyPact well, but it seems to me this forum is a more than appropriate place for her to bring her concerns about what was a D/s relationship. And many on this site, and in this thread, actually appear to know of her and her former partner, from their long time participation in these message boards, and are in a position to offer some words of advice that can can be helpful/healing in the situation at hand. I have to be honest, I am surprised by your response. Online forums such as this do, in fact, provide a sense of real community to people. And when people have concerns, or issues in their lives, it seems completely appropriate to turn to their communities, one of which might be an online community, for support. I really do not see the analogy to a news show talking about a celebrity break up. I see this as more of community support for people who are within this community. I also think D/s relationships present particular challenges during break-ups that are not similar to vanilla break-ups.

If you feel an online community like this cannot be a true community, I beg to differ.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 39

RE: When even the D type doesn't know - 4/14/2012 12:30:09 PM

lizi

Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline

Obviously I've never had to break things off as a Dominant but yes, I've had to do it in vanilla relationships. I'm not sure anyone who cared about the person they were with is going to be 'good' at letting them go. Being good implies a certain level of ease, if you cared for him then it's not going to be easy.

There is an artificial end in this situation too, things didn't run their course and then it was time to move on. Something outside the relationship itself is dictating that it end....how is that going to be ok with everyone involved? LadyPact, I don't think in this case you can dictate how things will go and just have it be so. You haven't yet reached the end of this relationship, but you somehow have to take something that was meaningful and beautiful to you and pronounce it as done.

I'm really sorry, I don't have great advice on how to accomplish this dissolution. For myself, things seem to work better with cutting things off even when I don't want to, the distance gives me time to grieve and move on. It seems as though trying to do it gradually or slowly becomes something to hold onto and I end up clinging - especially if it's something I didn't want to let go. One answer might be to cut ties as harsh as it sounds. It's harder that way at first but it launches into healing faster too. The time spent doing things gradually doesn't change the outcome, but it prolongs the pain. For me anyway.

I'm really sorry it came to this for the two of you and I wish it were different as I'm sure you both do as well. It's an ugly thing to go through, I hope you both find peace eventually. Hugs.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 40

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