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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:03:55 PM

Musicmystery

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Rich doesn't remember the 60s, was a young child in the 70s, and couldn't yet vote when Reagan ran.

His perspective just isn't going to be the same as someone who lived through all that.

He doesn't understand just how different things were then.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/14/2012 3:04:39 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 21

RE: Polar Opposite? - 4/14/2012 3:07:40 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

phil,

It's not ideological---it's simplistic.

Either this or that. No analysis. No middle ground. No other options. Just that simple.

Polarization is a replacement for thinking.

just like statutes.

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Post #: 22

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:09:46 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Well, I for one am just happy that the excesses of the '60s and '70s' were finally given proper response and counteracted by the more moderate, respectful and unifying '80s:

Punk rock, Madonna, NWA, worst sitcoms of all time (Married w/ Children, etc.), moderately ubiquitous indulgence in cocaine among the upper echelon and Republican party functionaries (white lines for the white collars), far more extensive than drug usage of the prior decade, puritanical government sales of guns to an enemy almost immediately after holding US embassy hostages for well over a year, moderate excess of S&L failures after temperate wild RE and development speculation, the Richard Simmons Show, Baywatch, well mannered support of bloody Central American dictators, disciplined government importation of cocaine into the US, frugal consumerism, judicious flooding of the airwaves with shrieking religious con artist nutjobs, the non-polarizing Moral Majority, the community minded Rush Limbaugh ...

What moderate person seeking closer community would not have welcomed all that? The '60s and '70's could never have come up with such a program.

whos excesses?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Edwynn)

Post #: 23

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:12:24 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Polarization started in the 1980s

Hmmm… you seem to have forgotten the Civil war as an example... come on polarization has been with man since three moved in with each other.

Butch

you nailed this one

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 24

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:13:16 PM

Edwynn

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He's just jealous because he missed out on the Nancy Sinatra RC Cola commercials.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:16:54 PM

Moonhead

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Punk was a '70s thing, surely? You always get these whiney Noo Yoikers bitching about how the Sex Pistols based their career on ripping off godawful New York comedy bands like The Ramones and Patti Smith Group, after all. You can't get a lot more '70s than that...

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:16:56 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
whos excesses?

You would have to ask the person who claimed such excesses as the primary feature of the decades in question.

Which identification of such person would necessitate actually reading the thread.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2012 3:18:56 PM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:19:16 PM

TheHeretic

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Muse, don't presume to tell me about my early life, and what I can remember, especially in light of your own memory issues on news events today. Yes, I was a child in the 70's. A child raised by a recruiter for the Socialist Workers Party, who was out selling "The Militant" on streetcorners, probably before you ever got your first kiss, if your profile age is correct.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:21:17 PM

Musicmystery

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I can pretty accurately presume what you didn't experience when you weren't yet born.

It's just reality that we're talking from a framework you don't have--and couldn't be expected to have. What we're concerned about just always was in your experience.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 29

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 3:31:30 PM

subfever

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quote:

Polarization started in the 1980s, with the rise of the Religious Right as a political force, aided by President Reagan.

1946 to 1980 was the most favorable era of prosperity for the middle-class. Deregulation was the key "aid" given to those at the top of the food chain under Reagan's watch. This served to widen the gap between the haves and the have-nots for the following 30+ years. Now the gap between these two groups is wider than it has been for the past 100+ years.

There's always been a class war. However, the prevailing illusion is that the great divide is between the ever-widening political ideologies, when in reality, those at the top of the food chain are extracting more and more wealth from the peons who serve them.

As always, my advice to all is to stop playing inside the political sandbox, and start understanding the dire need to evolve beyond money, politics, and war. Otherwise, you're destined to endlessly argue with each other about the best methods of addressing the many adverse symptoms of a flawed, corrupt, and unsustainable system... which is exactly what the powers-that-be want you to do.

The choice is yours: Continue to focus inside-the-box, or start thinking outside-the-box.

< Message edited by subfever -- 4/14/2012 3:32:33 PM >

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 4:00:16 PM

TheHeretic

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But I was very much aware of what was going on around me from early on, Muse. Having the FBI show up to question your classmates in 2nd grade will do that.

No, I wasn't around for the JFK assassination, and I was a toddler when RFK and MLK got shot, but I was immersed in the movement from not much thereafter.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 4:10:26 PM

dcnovice

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FR

Polarization is as old as the republic.

We did get a nice respite during the Era of Good Feelings, but once relief at surviving a second war with Britain subsided, the usual rifts reappeared.

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Post #: 32

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/14/2012 4:53:26 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Punk was a '70s thing, surely? You always get these whiney Noo Yoikers bitching about how the Sex Pistols based their career on ripping off godawful New York comedy bands like The Ramones and Patti Smith Group, after all. You can't get a lot more '70s than that...

Yes, I know it started then, but in the latter stages. Not something I would rate as emblematic of the entire decade. It seemed to come into full flower in the early '80s, but I wasn't really into it much so what do I know. Most people would rate disco as being what the decade was about, but that is false also. Fact is, the five successive five-year periods from 1955 to 1980 were all unique and quite distinct, things since then seeming to proceed in more serial fashion.

In any event I'm not one to proclaim any era as being better or worse than another, generally. But it was impossible to not notice the '80s relatively sudden change from the previous atmosphere of gradually improving understanding and better relations among previously disparate and formerly antagonistic groups. For example, from police harassing hippies, and rednecks beating them up, in the late 'sixties to writing them at ticket for having a half ounce of weed and the rednecks toking in the 'seventies, etc., the decriminalization environment, Vietnam was over and people were universally happy about it and assuming that sort of thing would never happen again, etc. From the 1980s forward the change then was to a seemingly determined mood of self interest, domestic political and social antagonism, international antagonism, gradual but determined dismantling of the regulatory structure that had been built up and refined over decades, merger and acquisition/leveraged buyout frenzy, junk bond frenzy, etc.

And yes, as alluded to here in the thread, the regulatory structure I'm speaking of started in the New Deal era and was adjusted and refined over a 50 year period, and corporate power and concentration of wealth had been diminished accordingly, product safety was something that could actually be counted on, a far better situation for the populace as a whole than had ever existed before. The middle and latter stages of that period saw the most important final stages of addressing the civil rights issues that had been dormant for many decades, which made 'the populace as a whole' more ... whole.

I don't know if it was Roe-Wade, more women lawyers and professors, too many people acting civil towards each other, or what- but something crawled far up somebody's skirt, and something snapped. So then, as pointed out, we've been in backlash mode for thirty years now.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 33

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 1:28:01 AM

DarqueMirror

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Apposite?

(in reply to Edwynn)

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 2:08:38 AM

FrostedFlake

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ap·po·site adj \ˈa-pə-zət\

Definition of APPOSITE

: highly pertinent or appropriate : apt <apposite remarks>

— ap·po·site·ly adverb
— ap·po·site·ness noun

Origin of APPOSITE

Latin appositus, from past participle of apponere to place near, from ad- + ponere to put — more at position
First Known Use: 1621

...Polar ??

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 2:57:56 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

1946 to 1980 was the most favorable era of prosperity for the middle-class. Deregulation was the key "aid" given to those at the top of the food chain under Reagan's watch. This served to widen the gap between the haves and the have-nots for the following 30+ years. Now the gap between these two groups is wider than it has been for the past 100+ years.

There's always been a class war. However, the prevailing illusion is that the great divide is between the ever-widening political ideologies, when in reality, those at the top of the food chain are extracting more and more wealth from the peons who serve them.

Yes. For mine the emergence of free market economics discourses that accompanied the emergence of the Religious Right in the US is a key factor in the growing polarisation of politics and culture that seems have become more pronounced after the 'cultural revolutions' of the 1960s.

Class warfare has never left us - it is a constant. Witness the demolition of the American middle class, and the demise of the trade union movements across the Anglosphere that have accompanied the above factors. Class warfare never left us - it was carried on under the new titles of deregulation and globalisation, and is still being carried on today as the rich and wealthy continually increase their wealth and power at the expense of all other sectors of society.

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 3:30:10 AM

tweakabelle

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There is another aspect to the disconnect into the attitude of the Right towards the Federal Govt that is worth pointing out too. This is the disconnect between the trenchant criticism levelled at the Fed Govt inside the US, and their constant promotion of the US model of Govt overseas.

The Right's promotion of the model of government they are so fond of criticising often reaches the level of calling for and supporting the export of this model by military means. Iraq is the classic example here of course. The very model they exhibit such disdain for internally in the US can be imposed on other countries, by force if need be.

I have often wondered whether they see the contradiction in their position. Why does the Right promote a model of government they claim is thoroughly flawed to the point of tyranny, yet, at the same time, insist on imposing, by force, this 'tyrannical' model on other countries?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/15/2012 3:33:08 AM >

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RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 4:57:56 AM

PatrickG38

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Apposite?

The title was probably a typo or poor usage and I imagine should have been 'polar opposites"

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Post #: 38

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 5:02:04 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Punk was a '70s thing, surely? You always get these whiney Noo Yoikers bitching about how the Sex Pistols based their career on ripping off godawful New York comedy bands like The Ramones and Patti Smith Group, after all. You can't get a lot more '70s than that...

Yes, I know it started then, but in the latter stages. Not something I would rate as emblematic of the entire decade. It seemed to come into full flower in the early '80s, but I wasn't really into it much so what do I know. Most people would rate disco as being what the decade was about, but that is false also. Fact is, the five successive five-year periods from 1955 to 1980 were all unique and quite distinct, things since then seeming to proceed in more serial fashion.

Well, don't even get me started on the whole disco thing. There were plenty of movements that started during the '70s, but I don't think you could pick out any one of them as being definitive for the decade (as you say). The whole "whiney songwriter" thing goes back to at least the '60s, for instance, but people still tend to saddle Joni Mitchell and James Taylor with that one. If there was a uniquely '70s movement in music, I'd have said glam rock got the closest, and that was over and done with in three or four years, though you could make a case for jazz fusion and prog as well.
That's the problem with oversimplifying something as complex as pop culture (or politics, come to that): the more reductive your approach is, the less accurate and useful it becomes.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Post #: 39

RE: Polar Apposite? - 4/15/2012 5:07:24 AM

kdsub

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You really need to bone up on US history before you lay all force of arms on the right of the political spectrum...but never mind that... never stopped you before.

Butch

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Post #: 40

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