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RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 4:57:22 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 7:28:36 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CastleRock32
I'm okay with the police doing the talking. I'm not crazy about it, but hospital staff (as far as I know) are not trained in any investigative interviewing.

How, then, do we deal with genuine DV victims who also insist that their husband (stereotypically speaking) really didn't do anything wrong?

I don't have a full answer for you, but you might be interested in something a police investigator said where I live. Not an exact quote, but more or less: "When we're called to a domestic disturbance, we look for broken furniture. If it's a consensual sex game, all the plates are in the cabinets, and nothing is broken, even if the people are beat up. If it's domestic violence, prized possessions are damaged too."

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RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 8:12:05 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
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(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 9:38:30 AM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		I bet they would express admiration!

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 3:00:05 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Hmmm I dont see where any of it would hold up in a court of law (US) considering the slave is not recognized in the first place.

The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted after the American Civil War.

The Thirteenth Amendment completed the abolition of slavery in the United States, which had begun with President Abraham Lincoln issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863.

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RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 3:27:52 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Hmmm I dont see where any of it would hold up in a court of law (US) considering the slave is not recognized in the first place.

The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted after the American Civil War.

The Thirteenth Amendment completed the abolition of slavery in the United States, which had begun with President Abraham Lincoln issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863.



Wait, "except as punishment for a crime"? That's interesting. Is it still in effect? Does this technically mean a Court of Law can order someone into slavery as punishment for a crime still?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 3:50:45 PM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Hmmm I dont see where any of it would hold up in a court of law (US) considering the slave is not recognized in the first place.

The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted after the American Civil War.

The Thirteenth Amendment completed the abolition of slavery in the United States, which had begun with President Abraham Lincoln issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863.



Wait, "except as punishment for a crime"? That's interesting. Is it still in effect? Does this technically mean a Court of Law can order someone into slavery as punishment for a crime still?

quote:

involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime



They wouldn't order someone into slavery. This refers primarily to the practice of sentencing someone to hard labor. For example, in the early 1900s, prisoners were sometimes leased out to coal mines and farms where they were required to work. I believe the only place that sentences of hard labor are still used is the military.

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 3:58:32 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		I didn't mean BDSM slavery.
Hard labour wouldn't count as slavery if they were duly and fairly (as determined by law) compensated for the work, would it? I was under the impression that prisoners were given a stipend for work performed during time served.
No, I didn't think they'd order anyone into slavery in North America, I'm just curious now about that phrasing.

(in reply to subbyinlosangele)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 4:19:27 PM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline 		I had not even sure what people are debating in this thread, but a slave contract is not enforceable in the sense that you can require someone who signs such a contract to adhere to the terms. However, such documents have been used in court to the benefit of the dom when the submissive was hurt (even prominently in a murder case), because it indicated the act may have been consensual. That said, none of this stuff is on really solid footing from a legal standpoint. As others have said, the law can vary widely from country to country, state to state, and jurisdiction to jurisdiction. One subtle detail in a particular case can make all the difference.


(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 4:24:43 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		I think we're just discussing the subject in general, with various tangents.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 4:34:33 PM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alecta

I didn't mean BDSM slavery.
Hard labour wouldn't count as slavery if they were duly and fairly (as determined by law) compensated for the work, would it? I was under the impression that prisoners were given a stipend for work performed during time served.
No, I didn't think they'd order anyone into slavery in North America, I'm just curious now about that phrasing.




As I said, in the early 1900s prisoners were, in essence, forced into slavery. They were leased to farms, mines, and such, where they were required to do hard labor. And they weren't compensated for it. But I believe it's been 70 or 80 years since that stuff happened on a federal level.

It's also been argued that chain gangs in the south were one way of African America servitude in spite of the 13th amendment. And they weren't paid either. But the chain gangs were phased out decades ago.

So, in reality, prisoners in the United States have, at times, been forced into slavery, but those practices are long over -- except in the military. The rules on what constitutes hard labor in the military are vague, but in the last decade there have been cases of soldiers being convicted and forced to perform hard labor until their hands bled.

(in reply to Alecta)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 4:47:57 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele
So, in reality, prisoners in the United States have, at times, been forced into slavery, but those practices are long over

I swear, this thread has more people talking out of their ass than any other on the boards.

Alecta, the "except as punishment for crime" part of the 13th Amendment is the reason prisoners in the US can be paid $0 per hour, and/or far below minimum wage. Activists have been trying to change the Amendment's wording for 100 years, and there was an increased movement in the 1970s.

One link: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisonlabor.html

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to subbyinlosangele)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: slave contract - 4/22/2012 5:10:43 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the very interesting link, Red.
Philosophically speaking, I feel that while it is wrong for someone to "benefit" from the "guaranteed employment" of the prison system, it is also wrong to exploit them that way. Ideally, I think prisoners should be worked and paid fairly, which I would consider to be up to 20% below local minimum wage, and the wages garnished with a set weekly amount towards maintenance of the prison, a percentage towards compensation of the prisoner's victims, and leaving a minimum scaled amount guaranteed to him on his release. But trusting prisoners to make things for the military... that's just bad management.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: slave contract - 4/23/2012 1:11:39 PM   
CastleRock32


Posts: 29
Joined: 10/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: CastleRock32
I'm okay with the police doing the talking. I'm not crazy about it, but hospital staff (as far as I know) are not trained in any investigative interviewing.

How, then, do we deal with genuine DV victims who also insist that their husband (stereotypically speaking) really didn't do anything wrong?

I don't have a full answer for you, but you might be interested in something a police investigator said where I live. Not an exact quote, but more or less: "When we're called to a domestic disturbance, we look for broken furniture. If it's a consensual sex game, all the plates are in the cabinets, and nothing is broken, even if the people are beat up. If it's domestic violence, prized possessions are damaged too."


Thanks Red. Having done some investigative interviewing myself in the professional world, it seemed like there had to be a basic common sense way to approach it. Glad some out there are doing so!

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: slave contract - 4/24/2012 9:21:38 AM   
TorbayDominant


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/24/2012
Status: offline 		This should help you...

http://bestslavetraining.com/about/cuffsmasters-domain/rules-of-submission

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: slave contract - 4/24/2012 11:44:55 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 4/24/2012 11:45:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: slave contract - 6/24/2012 9:50:54 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		You're all a big bunch of bullies!!!!!

https://fetlife.com/groups/4164/group_posts/2652145

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: slave contract - 6/25/2012 3:09:16 AM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		I think you need to not dig up old threads!



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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: slave contract - 6/25/2012 4:03:29 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You're all a big bunch of bullies!!!!!

https://fetlife.com/groups/4164/group_posts/2652145

I saw that thread too and I posted on it. Some people will bitch about just about anyting.

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RE: slave contract - 6/25/2012 10:31:20 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
^ ya but does it have the "128 slave rules" in in... no!



I hear the 256 rule edition will be out soon...

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