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About pain. - 4/19/2012 11:46:00 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Something in the anti pro domme thread got me thinking. I am sure that everyone knows the arguement about bdsm always having to do with sex or not is not new. Everyone has their different opinions and I understand that. What I am wondering is if there is anyone else willing to stand up and say pain has nothing to do with sex/sexuality for them and why. I think I can only explain what I am asking by giving myself up as an example. I am a domme and a sadist the thought of hurting people makes me very happy. But I have at different time in my life allowed others to do harm to me. Real crippling harm. On the ocassions I have allowed it to happen there has never been anything sexual about it. Pain only inspires in me the desire to fight. To survive. To prove that I am better than what is being done to me. So I am wondering if anyone else feels the same or if they have another nonsexual reason for allowing pain.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:14:30 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		No doubt pain is very erotic and sensual for many people. And I consider sexual pleasure as one of many different pleasures of kink/bdsm.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but yes, there are plenty of people (myself included) who do NOT enjoy giving or receiving "real" pain (sexually or otherwise). I am not into the S&M part of BDSM (I'm more into kink myself). Now what you consider "real" pain is a whole other thread, since I don't consider giving a spanking "real" pain.

I'm sure if you ask 10 people this question, you will get 20 answers, because it's so complex and different for everyone.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:16:22 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I've certainly known subs/bottoms who liked to be hit so they could fly. I don't consider flying sexual, though I definitely consider it to be erotic. (That might lead to a long-ass thread argument, we'll see.)

I recently posted about my experience hitting women with baseball bats. The woman who introduced me to that world thought it was rude if a rope top tied a knot near her clitoris, and, in fact, one of the main reasons she wanted to play with me was that I was more interested in hitting her than in having sex with her. She wanted her BDSM to provide a pure pain high, without vanilla arousal.

The same woman also told me that when she was totally jonesing for a pain fix, she would go to the tattoo shop and get another piercing.

Sensible woman, well educated, professional job.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:23:19 PM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Pain only inspires in me the desire to fight. To survive. To prove that I am better than what is being done to me. So I am wondering if anyone else feels the same or if they have another nonsexual reason for allowing pain.


I have experienced something like this. The pride of endurance and the satisfaction of pushing my own abilities. However... I have always done that in the context of sport. It wouldn't occur to me to hire a good looking woman at great cost to test my threshold of endurance and pain when I could easily do it myself... not unless I also wanted to be aroused. And granted... for me, being aroused pushes the limits of pain I can endure... Also being high hehe. But that's just me I guess.

< Message edited by Bhruic -- 4/19/2012 12:25:43 PM >

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:23:57 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

Something in the anti pro domme thread got me thinking. I am sure that everyone knows the arguement about bdsm always having to do with sex or not is not new. Everyone has their different opinions and I understand that. What I am wondering is if there is anyone else willing to stand up and say pain has nothing to do with sex/sexuality for them and why. I think I can only explain what I am asking by giving myself up as an example. I am a domme and a sadist the thought of hurting people makes me very happy. But I have at different time in my life allowed others to do harm to me. Real crippling harm. On the ocassions I have allowed it to happen there has never been anything sexual about it. Pain only inspires in me the desire to fight. To survive. To prove that I am better than what is being done to me. So I am wondering if anyone else feels the same or if they have another nonsexual reason for allowing pain.



I was really envious of those subspacing bottoms. And I have this thing about not asking someone to do something I am not willing to do in some sense, so I needed to know what all those things felt like. And YES, I am here to tell you that I learned a tremendous amount about finesse and technique from that.

I do not produce endorphins, or at least not in the way that most folks do. So bottoming became a form of physical challenge, to prove I could take it. I was able to stop myself, since that is the surest path to injury. But aside from spanking, which is often sexual to me, really heavy pain was just an "I can overcome" bit of triumph for me.

~edited for clarity

< Message edited by LadyHibiscus -- 4/19/2012 12:25:39 PM >

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:29:00 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		I am asking for reasons, other than sexual ones, for a person to allow pain. Sorry if I wasn't clear about it. Yes I am aware it would lead to a million different opinions and a million different answers. It is the reasoning behind why one would allow it that I am interested in.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 12:34:31 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The same woman also told me that when she was totally jonesing for a pain fix, she would go to the tattoo shop and get another piercing.

Sensible woman, well educated, professional job.


I have done this before too. Though weirdly in my brain it isn't just a desire for pain. It is something else...a desire to go through pain and have something, in the form of art, to show for it. I had for many years an inker that said he would someday make me cry, make me hurt, to the point that I would make him stop. Sadly he lost the ability to be an inker before he did it.


_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 1:20:17 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		An interesting idea, and I have said in the past my sadistic streak has nothing to do with sexual arousal, but everything to do with a pleasent feeling stemming from empowerment, the same as any heavy control scene is. On the occasions I am the top in a power exchange or sadistic exchange, sex is never my objective, and even if I sexually stimulate the bottom, I am not personally interested in sexual stimulation at those times.

It's a lot less clear when I bottom though. Receiving pain can be either very sexual, or at sometimes, a very emotional/endorphine charged experience. The context of the situation and what lead to it makes the difference there.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 1:21:11 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I allow pain because it's what he wants. I'm not a masochist so it doesn't really turn me on sexually...it just fucking hurts. But knowing he enjoys it turns me on. So no pain isn't sexual for me. His enjoyment though is.


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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 2:03:09 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		You said the thought of hurting people makes you very happy.. One Dom I had when i asked him what he got out of inflicting pain told me it had to do with trust (in him).. another Dom that i absolutely adored and respected, he told me for him it turned him on more, for him it was indeed sexual, it literally made him harder.. that Dom told me either the first or second time we met that he was a sociopath (which is very different from a psychopath).. he was very intelligent and honest with me (oddly enough, being honest with me was to his benefit).. I dont know if there was a connection between pain being sexual for him and him being a sociopath.. maybe yes, maybe no.. I miss him.. I dont regret my time with him, other than it wasnt long enough..

I endured pain to please those Doms, that was the only reason, i got no pleasure from it & I didnt like it.. since then I decided i would not be involved with S&M in any way, no more pain for me.. when someone emails me, i look at their bdsm list, if its got anything pain related (even including spanking).. I will in most cases tell them thanks but no thanks.. I just dont want to go there again..

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 2:10:10 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		hmm, maybe another poorly related example. my friend who used to cut told me he did it because he wanted to feel something, anything.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 2:46:32 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I think that cutters are another category. There's a world of issues around self harm of which pain is only one.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 3:47:33 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I am asking for reasons, other than sexual ones, for a person to allow pain. Sorry if I wasn't clear about it. Yes I am aware it would lead to a million different opinions and a million different answers. It is the reasoning behind why one would allow it that I am interested in.


As a chronic pain sufferer, I hate the pain I have to endure on a daily basis. However, there are certain types of counter-irritant pain I LOVE. I train my partners to flog and crop areas of my body in a particular way that brings relief through increased circulation and perhaps a bit of endorphin production. Receiving it is relaxing and healing; there's no sexual element whatsoever for me. To me it's on a par with professional massage or an acupuncture session.



< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 4/19/2012 3:53:32 PM >

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 4:33:02 PM   
Soyokaze


Posts: 390
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		I love the sensation and after affects of pain and everything that generally goes with it although it's really hard to describe in detail. So I'm trying to say the reason to allow pain is simply for the raw sensation and secondarily for what accompanies it generally (internally and things dom/dommes generally do (aftercare/etc)). It's not a sexual thing for me (I've had some awkward times where someone asked why I wasn't getting hard during a flogging...) and while the two can be combined and both still be pleasurable it'll generally keep me from orgasming, which I already tend to last too long (no it's not a good thing even for a guy).

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 4:40:09 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
This hypothesis excludes, of course, people whose sensation centres have been crossed to experience what should be pain as erotic pleasure.

From a purely academic standpoint, Pain triggers Survival Instincts, which delivers instinctual options including passing down your DNA and "surviving as a bloodline/species", therefore leading to arousal. It can be argued, therefore, that the eroticism of torture (to the receiver) is actually in the triggered survival response as opposed to the actual pain itself, that the pain itself is only a door. The same mechanism can be used to argue that the erotic response is only a by-product of the activation of one's survival response and is not an experience that is desired by the recipient. In the same vein, women who are being raped and tortured can become aroused and orgasm as a protective response. It does not mean that they're enjoying it, it's just their bodies' way of trying to prevent further harm to itself by yielding to potentially damaging force.

Most of the male masochists I've met fall in the category of seeking to prove their manliness through enduring pain. They get aroused, sure, but what's really pumping them isn't the erection, it's the endorphins and adrenaline and the idea of how "strong" they are that they're jonesying for.

Curiously, the female masochists, in my experience, tend to be more the sort looking to "feel something, anything", or to alleviate their own emotional or mental pain. Guilt or heartbreak, usually. This may have to do with the context in which I meet them (stressed overachievers). I don't think I've really met any female masochists not looking for the erotic aspect of pain on a BDSM pretext. I once knew a cutter who described pain as a link that reminds her that she is present and corporeal in the world. Another one "used" pain to clear her head. One said it helped her become focused, another thought it breaks up her focus. Medically we'd consider them all to be addicts to the adrenaline/endorphins, but that's only because we're determined to think that people who want to hurt themselves are freaks.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 5:00:59 PM   
kitkat105


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/29/2011
From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		I suppose there are people that pain and sexual arousal are separate, but I don't really fall into that category. With that said, I dislike pain. If I'm sore after the gym, stub my toe, I'll cry, whinge, complain.

But when Sir hurts me, it is an amazing combination of being high from endorphins and being sexually aroused simultaneously. Knowing he's enjoying inflicting the pain, as well knowing he's got the power/control over me is a huge turn on. I enjoy the pain he causes and am proud of marks that get left (infact, I get disappointed if there aren't any). I also like that it pushes my boundaries.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 5:32:30 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I am asking for reasons, other than sexual ones, for a person to allow pain. Sorry if I wasn't clear about it. Yes I am aware it would lead to a million different opinions and a million different answers. It is the reasoning behind why one would allow it that I am interested in.


I can only answer this from my side of the kneel, as the one choosing to inflict pain for non-sexual reasons sometimes. When someone won't stop mentally/emotionally self punishing or putting themselves down, or when a sub or bottom needs to be beaten to feel purged. I've only known males who are into purging.

Hate to say this, but non-sexual whippings help some adults with attention deficit disorder to stay focused with their daily life stuff...my guess is by altering their brain chemistry a little.

Same thing can go for depression from shiite piling up, from extended family or job related or whatever. Recently my slave needed to feel grounded and have different chemicals roaring through his brain. (I kept it brief.) bo became more "present" in my company, warm and cuddly instead of withdrawing inside himself. Sure the problems didn't all go away, but they became background music instead of devouring him whole with guilt and hopelessness and anger. (These things are not springing from our relationship, but are family matters.)

Another reason I can think of for pain without masochistic sexual enjoyment... Two of my friends were cutters. Both had also gone to therapy and tried meds but had found that pain within S&M was a good substitute. It tore through numb feelings and made them feel something. I did not top them, they were friends and I was curious about what made them tick.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 5:45:48 PM   
VioletViolence


Posts: 169
Joined: 1/30/2012
Status: offline 		I'm in the "pain in and of itself isn't arousing" camp. My partners reaction to causing the pain, or their reactions to my reactions, the petting in between the pain....those are the things that end up getting me aroused. Pain just brings on the lovely endorphins and facilitates the other reactions.

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 7:09:53 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Pain is very arousing to me. I do pain for the arousal, I do pain for the service (I tried playing with pain with my FWB to scratch the itch, but he was just doing it for me, and as a result, it did nothign for me), and I do pain for the endorphins. But I have to say, pain just feels good to me. As a very young child I would try to tell people about 'good pain', meaning pain that had not crossed the threshhold for me, was still at a level that as a very young (even preschool) child, I could enjoy. I was old enough to know a little (very little) about us and this world before I relized the problem was not that I didn't have the right, adult words to communicate a common idea - the idea was that the idea was not common. I got my menarche at 7, and was dismenorah my whole life, from 7, until I had surgery to correct it at 44. When the cramps came, the first day or two, and the last day or two, of cramps, were always 'good cramps', a feeling I enjoyed. And again I ask you - why can't I get adicted to running?

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RE: About pain. - 4/19/2012 7:16:33 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		I am into S&M for the endorphin rush and I consider it a completely different thing from sex. Completely. I'm not into BDSM for the sex. Not at all. S&M is also not about arousal for me. It is about the massive endorphin rush. A good fuck is a good fuck and has nothing to necessarily do with BDSM in my world. This is my personal preference being expressed ONLY. I am not defining anything for anyone else here.

With that said, I also understand that not everyone experiences pain the same way, so for many people S&M will hold zero appeal.

I encounter Dominants all the time who are not sadists - and they are not a good match for me. Submission is fun for me. But it is not the same experience as the endorphin rush from S&M.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 4/19/2012 7:19:10 PM >

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