As an Aethist sees it...

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Mupainurpleasure -> As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 10:02:36 AM)
I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. They seem to draw on bits and piece and go all in on revelations which...may just have been a veiled referenc to caligula and the fear he wasnt really dead and the persecution woould resume( check verify then challenge) Social darwinism, hoardingf of wealth, capitalism almost as a tenet of religon and the constant we don't hate the Sinner but....which is mostly just what everythingafter but is. The high incoidemnce of Right wing evangelicals and NRA, Voter ID support( ignoring the predominately white absentee system where actuialoly fraud was found and focusing on id at polls desspite the Bush DOJ spend millions and finding a coupole dozen cases makes it ludicrous to say it's about protecting the vote not suppressing it) The rapidity they spout of about Sodom and use the english translation of the greek transaltion of the aramaic is ignorance on diusplay. I mean really m two pages later Lot's daughters are getting him drunk and committing incest.... did God really destroy Sodom for it's gayness yet being omnificent save the daughters he knew would be ebgaging in incest? Lebiticus is anothe rone they love spoutung it';s the absoulote word yet ignore the passage on then proper way to sll a daughter into slavery on the same page. They also use todays western culture as a reference which ignores the use of mael rape after battle in mesopetamia as an act of primacy and domination of proisoners not sex..... So, I shake my yhead and think yeah but they believe in the ressurection and the teachings of Christ or do they??? They condemn liberalism , act as if christianity was a conservative capitalist supporting dsmall goverment let the poor help themseolves and starving children i n the next town over is compatible with their extrme wealth in some cases..... Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. Christianity s great by me I just wish more christiands practiced it..... stepping back

Kirata -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 11:57:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. Trust me, Atheists aren't alone on that one. K.

MrBukani -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 2:58:26 PM)
Its kinda of a good story I think, but could you please edit it. I keep gettin stuck in midsentence. I dont mind the a spelling mistake or twoo. But there are over twenty typos init I guess.

tazzygirl -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 3:32:42 PM)
quote: I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. quote: Christianity s great by me I just wish more christiands practiced it..... stepping back Your first mistake is equating Christians with the teachings of the mega church.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 4:06:08 PM)
This [image]local://upfiles/633062/A977BCB0B98147A38759F243ADF61F74.jpg[/image]

Fellow -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 6:48:47 PM)
How do you define atheist? Your story does not have much to do with religion. It is more a criticism against organized church political-economic practices. Is atheism defined as political activism against such practices? Many deeply religious people oppose such practices as well. Jesus Christ as a liberal? Liberalism has been redefined today, Jesus was against oppressive government.

tweakabelle -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 7:09:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. quote: Christianity s great by me I just wish more christiands practiced it..... stepping back Your first mistake is equating Christians with the teachings of the mega church. I accept the distinction being drawn between those who claim the label "Christian" and those who actually practice Christianity. To me there seems to be an ocean of difference between the Christianity of the New Testament and the practices of the religious Right in the USA, Australia and elsewhere. So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? There's a broader issue here too. It's very difficult for me to think of a belief system/ideology/-ism where the practice and the things done in the name of said belief system/ideology/-ism match the teachings, where the theory and practice are identical. If this is the case universally, then doesn't this suggest the problem lies in the belief system/ideology/-ism rather than the adherents who claim to put it into practice?

LookieNoNookie -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 7:56:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. They seem to draw on bits and piece and go all in on revelations which...may just have been a veiled referenc to caligula and the fear he wasnt really dead and the persecution woould resume( check verify then challenge) Social darwinism, hoardingf of wealth, capitalism almost as a tenet of religon and the constant we don't hate the Sinner but....which is mostly just what everythingafter but is. The high incoidemnce of Right wing evangelicals and NRA, Voter ID support( ignoring the predominately white absentee system where actuialoly fraud was found and focusing on id at polls desspite the Bush DOJ spend millions and finding a coupole dozen cases makes it ludicrous to say it's about protecting the vote not suppressing it) The rapidity they spout of about Sodom and use the english translation of the greek transaltion of the aramaic is ignorance on diusplay. I mean really m two pages later Lot's daughters are getting him drunk and committing incest.... did God really destroy Sodom for it's gayness yet being omnificent save the daughters he knew would be ebgaging in incest? Lebiticus is anothe rone they love spoutung it';s the absoulote word yet ignore the passage on then proper way to sll a daughter into slavery on the same page. They also use todays western culture as a reference which ignores the use of mael rape after battle in mesopetamia as an act of primacy and domination of proisoners not sex..... So, I shake my yhead and think yeah but they believe in the ressurection and the teachings of Christ or do they??? They condemn liberalism , act as if christianity was a conservative capitalist supporting dsmall goverment let the poor help themseolves and starving children i n the next town over is compatible with their extrme wealth in some cases..... Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. Christianity is great by me I just wish more Christians practiced it... Well, your last line, I concur with....everything that preceded it was, at minimum, convoluted at best, parasitic at worst.

GotSteel -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 8:05:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. I'm of the impression that his death had to do with the hate crime he committed at the temple. [image]local://upfiles/566126/8EA1B572114043B0B80DE18D74FF9497.jpg[/image]

daddyneedsluv -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 9:54:00 PM)
"Wow" is all I can say to this. There could possibly be many great points to be made if it were actually legible. Heck, I'm not sure "Main Stream Christians" could even try to fight whatever this post is meant to argue. This argument or point just acts as a means to prove your lack of knowledge. Even if you are on the right track. Knowledge is nothing more than idiocy without proper translation and effective communication. I would advice editing and letting knowledge lead the way. Besides that, Kudos to you for speaking your mind.

tazzygirl -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/20/2012 9:55:10 PM)
quote: I accept the distinction being drawn between those who claim the label "Christian" and those who actually practice Christianity. To me there seems to be an ocean of difference between the Christianity of the New Testament and the practices of the religious Right in the USA, Australia and elsewhere. So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? There's a broader issue here too. It's very difficult for me to think of a belief system/ideology/-ism where the practice and the things done in the name of said belief system/ideology/-ism match the teachings, where the theory and practice are identical. If this is the case universally, then doesn't this suggest the problem lies in the belief system/ideology/-ism rather than the adherents who claim to put it into practice? quote: So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? Actions speak louder than words... at least for me. My grandmother used to tell me... Not everyone who says glory glory will be allowed through the pearly gates... and none who cry to Jesus only on Sunday will be allowed in his presence. Its hard to tell... but it is possible. I prefer to judge people on their humanity... their religion is just that.. theirs. quote: It's very difficult for me to think of a belief system/ideology/-ism where the practice and the things done in the name of said belief system/ideology/-ism match the teachings, where the theory and practice are identical. You lost me here. Can you explain please?

hlen5 -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 2:02:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle .............. So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? ......... where the theory and practice are identical. If this is the case universally, then doesn't this suggest the problem lies in the belief system/ideology/-ism rather than the adherents who claim to put it into practice? If someone has to announce their Christianity, there's a possibility that they're not walking the walk. Believers and non-believers alike can only judge by the fruits of a Christian's faith. Do they feed, clothe, and comfort all in need? Since we all are human, the execution of our labors don't always come up to 100% Christian. We can all just try to hit the highest mark.

tweakabelle -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 3:22:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle .............. So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? ......... where the theory and practice are identical. If this is the case universally, then doesn't this suggest the problem lies in the belief system/ideology/-ism rather than the adherents who claim to put it into practice? If someone has to announce their Christianity, there's a possibility that they're not walking the walk. Believers and non-believers alike can only judge by the fruits of a Christian's faith. Do they feed, clothe, and comfort all in need? Since we all are human, the execution of our labors don't always come up to 100% Christian. We can all just try to hit the highest mark. This sounds like a very reasonable response hlen5 - thank you. However if I apply it, it seems to me to exclude more or less the entire Religious Right - which would be news to them. Not only do these people fail the test you proposed - "Believers and non-believers alike can only judge by the fruits of a Christian's faith. Do they feed, clothe, and comfort all in need?" - they actively and deliberately choose to oppose those (both religious and secular) who advocate measures that would meet this standard in areas like social welfare and healthcare. Can you understand why non-believers might be reticent about applying it?

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 3:46:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Its kinda of a good story I think, but could you please edit it. I keep gettin stuck in midsentence. I dont mind the a spelling mistake or twoo. But there are over twenty typos init I guess. yeah i can see them now... The thing about an LD with writing skills is you just don't see them till the next day.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 4:08:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure I find it hard toi connect the mega church right wing evangelicasl movement to the actual teachings of Christ. They seem to draw on bits and piece and go all in on revelations which...may just have been a veiled referenc to caligula and the fear he wasnt really dead and the persecution woould resume( check verify then challenge) Social darwinism, hoardingf of wealth, capitalism almost as a tenet of religon and the constant we don't hate the Sinner but....which is mostly just what everythingafter but is. The high incoidemnce of Right wing evangelicals and NRA, Voter ID support( ignoring the predominately white absentee system where actuialoly fraud was found and focusing on id at polls desspite the Bush DOJ spend millions and finding a coupole dozen cases makes it ludicrous to say it's about protecting the vote not suppressing it) The rapidity they spout of about Sodom and use the english translation of the greek transaltion of the aramaic is ignorance on diusplay. I mean really m two pages later Lot's daughters are getting him drunk and committing incest.... did God really destroy Sodom for it's gayness yet being omnificent save the daughters he knew would be ebgaging in incest? Lebiticus is anothe rone they love spoutung it';s the absoulote word yet ignore the passage on then proper way to sll a daughter into slavery on the same page. They also use todays western culture as a reference which ignores the use of mael rape after battle in mesopetamia as an act of primacy and domination of proisoners not sex..... So, I shake my yhead and think yeah but they believe in the ressurection and the teachings of Christ or do they??? They condemn liberalism , act as if christianity was a conservative capitalist supporting dsmall goverment let the poor help themseolves and starving children i n the next town over is compatible with their extrme wealth in some cases..... Christ was a radical subversive who the state put to death because he was a threat to the conservative status quo, he cndemned wealth, he and the Apostles would of fit in just fine on Wavy gravy's commine . they were to each acording to his needs weren't they? Didnt they share all> the idea he would be pro mega church pastors living in grand estates ignores his attitude toward the pofoiteers and charlatons of the temple. Christianity is great by me I just wish more Christians practiced it... Well, your last line, I concur with....everything that preceded it was, at minimum, convoluted at best, parasitic at worst. yeah, as I said I do have an LD related to written communication. I acccept it is dense and difficult to read. i would be very interested in specifics of where I was parasitic or where I employed a false logic, straw man or any other failing in my argument other than my pitiful writing skills. This is n't for you per se but, the irony of aethists is we are the most knowledgeable of any general gorup about religon because not believeing is not the same as not seeking http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/09/28/atheists-jews-mormons-top-u-s-religious-knowledge-poll-christians-trail/ i think questioning leads to knowledge and faith sometimes means the absence of a need to question. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/from-jesus-socialism-to-capitalistic-christianity/2011/08/12/gIQAziaQBJ_blog.html Ironic when folks hung up on a hcr bill as redistributive worship at the alter of it's strongest proponent...........in the nutshell My arguemtn is best made here. I resorted to google they have articles form those who arent semi literste lol http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/from-jesus-socialism-to-capitalistic-christianity/2011/08/12/gIQAziaQBJ_blog.html Where does it argue the poor and the sick are not my problem and where is it pro capitalist, low tax and anti helping the poor?

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 4:33:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow How do you define atheist? Your story does not have much to do with religion. It is more a criticism against organized church political-economic practices. Is atheism defined as political activism against such practices? Many deeply religious people oppose such practices as well. Jesus Christ as a liberal? Liberalism has been redefined today, Jesus was against oppressive government. See i would be interested in examples of liberalism as oppressive goverment that weren't reflective of christ's teachings. Do you mean HCR and the oppression of millions of sick people by giving them equal access to healthcare? Do you mean wlefare and the taking of my taxes and giving children the bare minimum to live on as oprression and anti christian? Is it clean water or clean air laws that prevent death and suffering as once occurred? Do you mean social security and the end of elderly poiverty which had been over 70 percent because it costs you money? I would love to know your definition of oppression.If it is a libertarian ideal that's great but the idea of only being responsible for self is antithesis to the teachings of christ on poverty and the poor if it was simply hostility to taxes and hostility to taxes being used to help others. I guess if a libertarian that would be true but as a christian it wouold mbe hyoicrisy to say you believed in something then say the mechanism that makes it possible is oppression requires you ignore the cognitive dissonance needed to maintain conflicting moral values. Aethism has a definition and meaning if I gave it a different one it would no longer be aethism. For all my failings with the written word I do understand they are what they are and they have fixed meanings. Aethism doesnt preclude me from thinking a society that cared for the least of us is a a utipian ideal I can get behind and second to the ressurection which to an aethist is a fictional myth the most reoccurring new testament theme

MrBukani -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 4:39:55 AM)
I thought it must be something like that but your posts now are way better. Thanks. Kudo's! Keep up the good work.[;)]

DaddySatyr -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 6:12:08 AM)
I think the reference to oppressive government might be in relation to a verse from Mathew:22:17-21. It says ... quote: Mathew 22 "17 Tell us therefore what dost thou think? Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus knowing their wickedness, said: 'Why do you tempt me, ye hypocrites?' 19 'Shew me the coin of the tribute.' And they offered him a penny. 20 And Jesus saith to them: 'Whose image and inscription is this? 21 They say to him: 'Caesar's'. Then he saith to them: 'Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God, the things that are God's.'." You see, to a Christian (and Jesus' words aren't even open for misinterpretation, here), it isn't proper to give government more (importance, authority, control, "worship") than what it deserves in the hierarchy of the world/universe. There is a tendency amongst many "non-believers" to make government a lot more important than it should be; almost a religion unto itself. Something which is evidenced by the liturgy-like talking points without which most PPLs are at a loss to make any kind of argument. By slowly eroding the other faiths, government is becoming the new religion. May God have mercy on all of us, if that happens. Peace and comfort, Michael

thishereboi -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 6:26:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle .............. So how can we non-believers identify 'real' Christianity and those who practice it without appearing to be arrogant? ......... where the theory and practice are identical. If this is the case universally, then doesn't this suggest the problem lies in the belief system/ideology/-ism rather than the adherents who claim to put it into practice? If someone has to announce their Christianity, there's a possibility that they're not walking the walk. Believers and non-believers alike can only judge by the fruits of a Christian's faith. Do they feed, clothe, and comfort all in need? Since we all are human, the execution of our labors don't always come up to 100% Christian. We can all just try to hit the highest mark. This sounds like a very reasonable response hlen5 - thank you. However if I apply it, it seems to me to exclude more or less the entire Religious Right - which would be news to them. Not only do these people fail the test you proposed - "Believers and non-believers alike can only judge by the fruits of a Christian's faith. Do they feed, clothe, and comfort all in need?" - they actively and deliberately choose to oppose those (both religious and secular) who advocate measures that would meet this standard in areas like social welfare and healthcare. Can you understand why non-believers might be reticent about applying it? So your saying that the religious right doesn't give to charities? They don't help the poor or homeless? Now I know for a fact that there are a lot of christian organizations out there who contribute a lot of money to help others. Do you have any kind of proof that it is only liberal christians doing so?

kalikshama -> RE: As an Aethist sees it... (4/21/2012 7:06:20 AM)
Rather than religious leaders or civilians, I believe she is referring to religious politicians such as Paul Ryan who seek to cut aid to the poor. Rep. Paul Ryan spars with US bishops over criticism of budget cuts ...On Tuesday, the bishops sent the fourth in a series of letters to the House and Senate criticizing the House-passed budget for failing to meet certain “moral criteria” by disproportionately cutting programs that “serve poor and vulnerable people.” The letter criticized cuts in the Ryan budget to food stamps and other assistance programs for the poor. The letters also pressured some House committees to maintain current low-income assistance programs. The letters follow Ryan’s comments last week that his Catholic faith shaped the budget he authored. He also argued the budget is consistent with Catholic teachings. In a letter sent to the House Agriculture Committee on Monday, Bishop Stephen Blaire, Chairman of the USCCB Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development, singled out food stamp programs, urging lawmakers to reject “unacceptable cuts to hunger and nutrition” programs for “moral and human reasons.” He said spending cuts should instead be made to subsidy programs that “disproportionately go to large growers and agribusiness.” “Cuts to nutrition programs such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) will hurt hungry children, poor families, vulnerable seniors and workers who cannot find employment,” said the letter, signed by Bishop Stephen Blaire. “These cuts are unjustified and wrong.” Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/222591-rep-paul-ryan-spars-with-us-bishops-over-budget

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