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jlf1961 -> American Health Care (4/25/2012 8:08:35 PM)
Funny thing about insurance, you have the co pays. In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem. I have had a ct scan that found a lesion in one of my kidneys that they suspect is cancer, blood clots that did not show up in an ultrasound in my right leg, had surgery on the right leg to take care of the clots, which included a femtib bypass and a second incision so they could get at two other blood clots. I see a specialist about the kidney on May 1st. Now I am disabled and have medicare, I cant afford a supplement plan to take care of what medicare dont cover. All in all it would have been cheaper for the clot not to have stopped in my leg, but gone to my heart and killed me. A cremation only costs about 4 grand. Now, what the fuck is so great about american health care?

erieangel -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 8:15:54 PM)
Depending on the state you live in, you might be eligible for Medicaid as your supplemental. Medicaid is means-tested, of course, so it depends solely upon your income and they don't care what kind of health care expenses you have--which I happen think is wrong. But if you are eligible for Medicaid, it will pay your Medicare premium, deductibles and most co-payments. Most of the people I know who have both pay no more than a couple of bucks for a prescription, nothing for doctor visit or a procedure.

Marini -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 8:52:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Funny thing about insurance, you have the co pays. In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem. $6,000 for co-pays, this is a damn shame, Jeff. I don't know what to say, except this should not be. I have had a ct scan that found a lesion in one of my kidneys that they suspect is cancer, blood clots that did not show up in an ultrasound in my right leg, had surgery on the right leg to take care of the clots, which included a femtib bypass and a second incision so they could get at two other blood clots. I am so sorry you are going through this. I hope it's not cancer. I see a specialist about the kidney on May 1st. Now I am disabled and have medicare, I cant afford a supplement plan to take care of what medicare dont cover. THIS!!! You should not HAVE to have a supplement plan, to go along with medicare. All in all it would have been cheaper for the clot not to have stopped in my leg, but gone to my heart and killed me. A cremation only costs about 4 grand. No way!! We need you here! Jeff, we can take care of millions of people that are not in this country legally, and we can sure as hell take care of you. I really am speechless, but this post illustrates what is wrong with our health care system in the United States. Our we not our brother's keeper? Yes we are, hang in here Jeff, and you better give us frequent updates. Now, what the fuck is so great about american health care? That is a good question! *Thank you for sharing Jeff, sending you hugs, hope and healing blessings!*

Real0ne -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 9:02:48 PM)
dont blame heath care for what the troughers did to it. like everything in america some troll is under every bridge charging for something and the gubafia sees to it. You know in the name of "commerce". Now people are crying after believing criminals and shitting in their own beds that they have to sleep in it. Its all the middle men extorting money right off the top.. Another victim of deMOBcracy. Aside from politics, hope you are ok man.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 9:11:24 PM)
The health care systemis fantastic for mthenhealthy and the Insurers. That is changing though. With minimum required coverages, requrewments tospend 80 percent of premiums oncare and no more denyingpreexistingconditons it will be improved jsut not good yet. The actual metrics measuring outcomes have us for example speding 3 times what the french do with far lousier outcomes. People love ot say anectodal examples to counter statistical facts. It doesnt change the facts. My favorite is when someone talks about a hip replacement and the long waits in socilaized medicine countries and how we dont have to weight. If you think tht it's true research who covers most hip replacementshere

erieangel -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 9:32:39 PM)
Medicare/Medicaid pays for most hip replacements, heart surgeries and other types of major surgeries that are performed on mostly elderly patients here.

SoftBonds -> RE: American Health Care (4/25/2012 11:43:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure The health care systemis fantastic for mthenhealthy and the Insurers. That is changing though. With minimum required coverages, requirements to spend 80 percent of premiums oncare and no more denying preexisting conditons it will be improved jsut not good yet. The actual metrics measuring outcomes have us for example spending 3 times what the french do with far lousier outcomes. People love to say anecdotal examples to counter statistical facts. It doesn't change the facts. My favorite is when someone talks about a hip replacement and the long waits in socialized medicine countries and how we don't have to weight. If you think tht it's true research who covers most hip replacements here Not impressed by requiring health insurance companies to spend 80% of premiums collected on healthcare, both because that is already the rate, and because that is 10 times the administrative costs of Medicare/Medicaid, the VA system, or "socialist," healthcare in other nations. Make it 90% and the health insurance companies won't be able to afford an army of claim denial specialists. The rest of your points are valid, but I recommend typing more slowly before clicking OK. BTW, firefox has built in spellcheck, which will help you spot the places where your brain went faster than your fingers.

joether -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 4:24:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Funny thing about insurance, you have the co pays. In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem. I have had a ct scan that found a lesion in one of my kidneys that they suspect is cancer, blood clots that did not show up in an ultrasound in my right leg, had surgery on the right leg to take care of the clots, which included a femtib bypass and a second incision so they could get at two other blood clots. I see a specialist about the kidney on May 1st. Now I am disabled and have medicare, I cant afford a supplement plan to take care of what medicare dont cover. All in all it would have been cheaper for the clot not to have stopped in my leg, but gone to my heart and killed me. A cremation only costs about 4 grand. Now, what the fuck is so great about american health care? First off....I sincerely hope you get better. I just hope & pray some how, some where, someone will find a way to heal your troubles. Being a resident of the Commonwealth of Massachustts, I am often stunned and surprised to read of fellow Americans in other states with no safety nets, but suffer untold and amazing problems that could be easily solved, had they been a resident of MA. Before I got Mass Health (Romney's one and only good thing as Governor), I was working for a cable company. While in training I had an unexplainable health problem to which I was in absolutely agony and nearly passing out from the issue. $4000 dollars later, the doctors (yes, that's plural for a reason) stated "They dont know what was wrong". For $4000 F*#&ing dollars, I would expect some REAL F#&@ing answers! If I wanted to hear "I dont know what is wrong with you, Joether" and been forced to pay $4000 dollars, I would have asked myself! Thats right boys and girls, if the doctor has no clue whats wrong, but admits your in so much pain that you passed out on the ER bed; they can STILL CHARGE you many thousands of dollars if your uninsured. Cus that's the law! Than I got Mass Health and its been....Amazing. Got help I needed to handle the problem. And the problem that cropped up after going through that hell (i.e. depression). I can see my medical doctor whom is a Godsend from Heaven! I can get regular check ups, get dental work done. I pay a small amount of money for things, but compared to some of my friends, its a huge bargain! That's what happens when 'We the People' decide on something and keep the lobbyists and money men from the rule books long enough for it to be voted on. I'm just really sadden that the folks in America that could use good health coverage the most, are the ones living in 'Red States'. That their elected officals do everything and anything to prevent their voters from living better lives. I just really dont understand how these elected officals can say they are 'Christians' and ignore the suffering taking place in their own state!

jlf1961 -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 4:41:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel Depending on the state you live in, you might be eligible for Medicaid as your supplemental. Medicaid is means-tested, of course, so it depends solely upon your income and they don't care what kind of health care expenses you have--which I happen think is wrong. But if you are eligible for Medicaid, it will pay your Medicare premium, deductibles and most co-payments. Most of the people I know who have both pay no more than a couple of bucks for a prescription, nothing for doctor visit or a procedure. They have it here but I make 22 dollars too much to qualify for it. The state is paying my Medicare and part d premiums.

Lucylastic -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 5:10:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Funny thing about insurance, you have the co pays. In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem. $6,000 for co-pays, this is a damn shame, Jeff. I don't know what to say, except this should not be. I have had a ct scan that found a lesion in one of my kidneys that they suspect is cancer, blood clots that did not show up in an ultrasound in my right leg, had surgery on the right leg to take care of the clots, which included a femtib bypass and a second incision so they could get at two other blood clots. I am so sorry you are going through this. I hope it's not cancer. I see a specialist about the kidney on May 1st. Now I am disabled and have medicare, I cant afford a supplement plan to take care of what medicare dont cover. THIS!!! You should not HAVE to have a supplement plan, to go along with medicare. All in all it would have been cheaper for the clot not to have stopped in my leg, but gone to my heart and killed me. A cremation only costs about 4 grand. No way!! We need you here! Jeff, we can take care of millions of people that are not in this country legally, and we can sure as hell take care of you. I really am speechless, but this post illustrates what is wrong with our health care system in the United States. Our we not our brother's keeper? Yes we are, hang in here Jeff, and you better give us frequent updates. Now, what the fuck is so great about american health care? That is a good question! *Thank you for sharing Jeff, sending you hugs, hope and healing blessings!* I cant put it any better than Marini Did Jeff, so please take my post in the same vein, I wish you luck, and recovery ASAP And thanks Marini!

papassion -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 6:23:51 AM)
We need some kind of health care system that is afforable. All the healthcare programs in Massachusetts, and in other countries are going bankrupt. There is no free lunch and the piper must be paid. We are self indulgent, we smoke, eat like pigs, don't exercise and then wonder why there is so much health car needed and why it cost so much. We have all seen the stats that if everyone ate right, kept at the recommended weight, exercised, etc, 35 to 40% of healthcare needs would vanish. doctors order expensive tests that he thinks are not needed, but orders them anyway to cover his ass legally if you do happen to have some extreemy unlikely problem. Turns a 50.00 visit into a 300.00 to 400.00 visit. Tort reform must happen to help reign in medical costs. Doctors are human and make mistakes. And medicine is complicated. In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 6:26:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure The health care systemis fantastic for mthenhealthy and the Insurers. That is changing though. With minimum required coverages, requirements to spend 80 percent of premiums oncare and no more denying preexisting conditons it will be improved jsut not good yet. The actual metrics measuring outcomes have us for example spending 3 times what the french do with far lousier outcomes. People love to say anecdotal examples to counter statistical facts. It doesn't change the facts. My favorite is when someone talks about a hip replacement and the long waits in socialized medicine countries and how we don't have to weight. If you think tht it's true research who covers most hip replacements here Not impressed by requiring health insurance companies to spend 80% of premiums collected on healthcare, both because that is already the rate, and because that is 10 times the administrative costs of Medicare/Medicaid, the VA system, or "socialist," healthcare in other nations. Make it 90% and the health insurance companies won't be able to afford an army of claim denial specialists. The rest of your points are valid, but I recommend typing more slowly before clicking OK. BTW, firefox has built in spellcheck, which will help you spot the places where your brain went faster than your fingers. le sigh good advice grabbing it. It isnt the rate now though some were spending less especially on the soon to be gone vulture policies. I am for single payer it is proven to be cost effective and deliever the bests outcoimes. Medicare is 5 percent overhead so while far better it isnt 10 tmes better. Medicare advantage is all anyone should need to know about to decide socialized medicine is better

jlf1961 -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 7:03:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion We need some kind of health care system that is afforable. All the healthcare programs in Massachusetts, and in other countries are going bankrupt. There is no free lunch and the piper must be paid. We are self indulgent, we smoke, eat like pigs, don't exercise and then wonder why there is so much health car needed and why it cost so much. We have all seen the stats that if everyone ate right, kept at the recommended weight, exercised, etc, 35 to 40% of healthcare needs would vanish. doctors order expensive tests that he thinks are not needed, but orders them anyway to cover his ass legally if you do happen to have some extreemy unlikely problem. Turns a 50.00 visit into a 300.00 to 400.00 visit. Tort reform must happen to help reign in medical costs. Doctors are human and make mistakes. And medicine is complicated. In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it. IF my regular doctor had not ordered the tests he did, I would be in a worse position than I am in now. The clots did not show up in an ultra sound, it took a ct scan to find them, and the kidney problem. He ran more blood tests after the ct scan detected the lesion in my kidney and found a marker for cancer. I dont care if they run tests to figure out what is wrong. I am just upset about the cost not covered by insurance.

SoftBonds -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 9:57:40 AM)
fast reply- I remember there was this great BBC program I used to get on cable, where this nutritionist would get a British person or family to look at what they were eating. Generally someone 400 lbs or so was targeted, and she would show the person not only that they were eating too much, but that they were starving. Yes, starving, because they were eating a lot of junk food, and not getting vitamins and minerals. Their body was saying "I need niacin, I'm hungry," and they were eating 3 cheeseburgers cause the bread in that many burgers has about 60% of the required niacin... Generally they would be back 3 months later, the person would have lost 50-100 pounds, be exercising, and happier. Isn't it horrible what a "socialist," nation with a "socialist," TV station and "socialist," health care puts on the telly?

Mupainurpleasure -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 10:01:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds fast reply- I remember there was this great BBC program I used to get on cable, where this nutritionist would get a British person or family to look at what they were eating. Generally someone 400 lbs or so was targeted, and she would show the person not only that they were eating too much, but that they were starving. Yes, starving, because they were eating a lot of junk food, and not getting vitamins and minerals. Their body was saying "I need niacin, I'm hungry," and they were eating 3 cheeseburgers cause the bread in that many burgers has about 60% of the required niacin... Generally they would be back 3 months later, the person would have lost 50-100 pounds, be exercising, and happier. Isn't it horrible what a "socialist," nation with a "socialist," TV station and "socialist," health care puts on the telly? I put my eye patch on, parrot on my shoulder say a few argggs and pirate BBC shows all the time. They aren't aimed at the lowest common denominator and their state televison does great documentaries every week

Real0ne -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 11:47:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds fast reply- I remember there was this great BBC program I used to get on cable, where this nutritionist would get a British person or family to look at what they were eating. Generally someone 400 lbs or so was targeted, and she would show the person not only that they were eating too much, but that they were starving. Yes, starving, because they were eating a lot of junk food, and not getting vitamins and minerals. Their body was saying "I need niacin, I'm hungry," and they were eating 3 cheeseburgers cause the bread in that many burgers has about 60% of the required niacin... Generally they would be back 3 months later, the person would have lost 50-100 pounds, be exercising, and happier. Isn't it horrible what a "socialist," nation with a "socialist," TV station and "socialist," health care puts on the telly? yeh that and another problem is that as people age their bodies often do not absorb certain minerals vits etc even if they are double the requirements needed for god health and no one tests for that. no money in it.

Real0ne -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 1:00:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 IF my regular doctor had not ordered the tests he did, I would be in a worse position than I am in now. The clots did not show up in an ultra sound, it took a ct scan to find them, and the kidney problem. He ran more blood tests after the ct scan detected the lesion in my kidney and found a marker for cancer. I dont care if they run tests to figure out what is wrong. I am just upset about the cost not covered by insurance. no money it! insurance companies are in business to make money not protect you. Protecting you is a necessary evil to an insurance company. Just like the police work for, protect and serve the courts, municipal and state corporations, officials protect the state and so forth and so on, in all cases you are the bloodsucker pain in the ass even though you are a taxpayer and customer respectively. EVERYTHING is for profit or gain commercialized and now you have a good example as to why I bitch about this, taxes, and the gubafia commercial umbilical cord. (the same bitch as the good ole founders only they gave it a facelift so its more difficult to understand and go against. Its only a matter of time before this shit system that we have that has many other solutions than the chosen commercial versions comes back to bite everyone in the ass one at a time like wolves singling out the weakest sheep for the easy meal.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 1:06:37 PM)
Health insurance will ever be a mystery to me. This is the second year on an individual BCBS policy after years in a small group and I am baffled every time I have something done. Getting my injured ankle fixed I have paid five different bills to five different people...and while they all add up to what is a reasonable price (to me) the amounts of what was billed, and what BCBS covered are just crazy.

joether -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 2:39:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion We need some kind of health care system that is afforable. All the healthcare programs in Massachusetts, and in other countries are going bankrupt. There is no free lunch and the piper must be paid. It costs the Commonwealth of Massachusetts just $770 million/year for Mass Health. Of a budget thats' $29.2 Billion (I could be off by a billion or two). You'll find the percentage of cost is below 3%. If anything is bankrupting the state the most, its education. I can not speak on the status of other countries who do not share the same history as the commonwealth. I would suspect that the recession is more heavily felt in other countries than the USA. Since people are not working, taxes are not being collected as rapidly, but more people are using their state's system because they arent recieving the same through their company or by not being employed. Maybe the folks in this countries should ask why their 1%'ers are not keeping with with demand when they declare themselves the 'job creators'? But yes, Mass Citizens are doing just fine. 98.6% of them have decent health care coverage. The remainder have either not lived in the state long enough or 'enjoy' the prison system's health care. The state enjoys the #1 status for 'most citizens with health coverage' in America! quote: ORIGINAL: papassion We are self indulgent, we smoke, eat like pigs, don't exercise and then wonder why there is so much health car needed and why it cost so much. We have all seen the stats that if everyone ate right, kept at the recommended weight, exercised, etc, 35 to 40% of healthcare needs would vanish. Yes, and that would be bad for corporate profit! You forget we are not in some 'socialist' country. We want freedom to smoke, drink to excess, and gorge ourselves on food like fat people should! In fact you can find the states were all three are highly prevalent are red states. Why would corporations, that places crooked and corrupted Republicans into the federal offices want to help the good citizens out? That would be 'anti-American' and 'unprofitable' according to them! quote: ORIGINAL: papassion doctors order expensive tests that he thinks are not needed, but orders them anyway to cover his ass legally if you do happen to have some extreemy unlikely problem. Turns a 50.00 visit into a 300.00 to 400.00 visit. Tort reform must happen to help reign in medical costs. It actually depends on the doctor's level of education, skill and experience. Likewise the health company or service the doctor works for, may have rules and regulations that have to be followed that trump what the doctor believes is 'not enough' or 'excessive'. We, the American people can set the rules by which all this takes place (example: Mass Health). Since most Americans do not want to do anything, but instead leave it to the lobbyists from corporations to decide, should anyone be surprised by the results? Its to much effort by most Americans to do anything. Easier for them to sit on their fat asses, drinking, smoking, not exercising, and bitching a storm of why doesnt someone do something; than to take action themselves, live responsibily and push for better health care in the country. The original version of the ACA (the President's plan) was really good. Even the current incarnation is fair. But only 8% of Americans have read the 2409 page document. The other 92% have been told what to think on it, because they are to busy to deal with problems in the country... quote: ORIGINAL: papassion Doctors are human and make mistakes. And medicine is complicated. In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it. 'Socialized Medicine'....the 'Boogey Man' of another defination. This concept erupted at the start of the health care bill and was such a catchy buzz word it stuck on conservative's minds. If you actually asked people to define 'socialized medicine' you'd find the grand majority of them have no clue what it is and isn't. They would rather the 'corporate medicine' that they bitch every day about instead. People right here in the commonwealth complained that 'Mass Health' was 'socialized medicine'. It could be defined as such. But with 3% overhead compared to EVERY private health insurance company in the state with an overhead of 26%. Which entity does better? The state can place those 23% of overhead not into greedy CEO and upper management's hands. Nor to stockholders whom demand high dividends.....or else. But towards helping those citizens that can use the help and saving the state money. But if your against this sort of logic, and your not a ceo or upper level management, nor a stockholder in a health insurance company.....but all means, oppose it. You'll just be labelled a 'Chowdah-Hid' (that's Bostonian for you....).

outhere69 -> RE: American Health Care (4/26/2012 2:54:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: papassion In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it. Umm, that's called private insurance.

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