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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 2:59:35 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

I'm on Medicare, the closest thing to socialized medical care in the US today, and my doctors do not have any limit on how long they can spend with me. As a matter of fact Medicare requires a minimum amount of time not a maximum.

HMO's and other private insurance do put a maximum time per patient on doctors.

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 3:02:20 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

Umm, that's called private insurance.




At my last appointment with my gp, I was scheduled for a 30 minute visit, he spent an hour and a half with me going over various test results and discussing the next steps.

I asked him about that, he said it was better to get things right rather than fast. He is also one of the best doctors in my town.

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 4:30:51 PM   
Mupainurpleasure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

I'm on Medicare, the closest thing to socialized medical care in the US today, and my doctors do not have any limit on how long they can spend with me. As a matter of fact Medicare requires a minimum amount of time not a maximum.

HMO's and other private insurance do put a maximum time per patient on doctors.

it is socialized medicine. medicare advantage was supposed to prove how inefficent medicare was and show private firms could do it cheaper. Instead they needed hundreds ofmillions in subsides because they were unable to compete with medicare on equal terms
The idea socialized medicine would mean a gate keeper flies in the face of the actual practices of private insurance. they have an army of denialists. they are in the profit business not the healthcare business. profit is their goal. This is a great info pc http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1920893,00.html That's the easy acccess youenjoy in non socialized medicine. Too bad the billions of permium payments spent debnying care werent spent giving it

< Message edited by Mupainurpleasure -- 4/26/2012 4:35:01 PM >

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 7:14:05 PM   
Marini


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quote:

In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem.


I think many are going to be in for sticker shock over the ever increasing health care costs.

Every year, deductibles and co-pays, are going up, up, up.

According to CNN Money:

The cost to cover the typical family of four under an employer plan is expected to top $20,000 on health care this year, up more than 7% from last year, according to early projections by independent actuarial and health care consulting firm Milliman Inc. In 2002, the cost was just $9,235, the firm said.

CNN Money: 20,00 to cover a family under an employer plan

As we hear, over and over again, small businesses create most of the new jobs.
Well how the hell are they going to be able to provide insurance to the employees at this rate?
This situation has to be dealt with one way or another, and people aren't going to be able to sit back much longer.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 4/26/2012 7:26:37 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 7:35:39 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		costs really do not increase much, inflation devalues your dollars. Not only the ones you make tomorrow but also the ones you made yesterday, 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago. Any soft asset you own, hard assets to a lesser but still formidable degree is being devalued.

So that nice nest egg you have now buys much less due to inflation exactly what jefferson predicted would happen!

100% inflation every 10 years, did you work that into your retirement budget?







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/26/2012 7:37:37 PM >

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 8:53:09 PM   
Mupainurpleasure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

In two months I have run up almost 6000 dollars in co-pays and still have not got to the more serious problem.


I think many are going to be in for sticker shock over the ever increasing health care costs.

Every year, deductibles and co-pays, are going up, up, up.

According to CNN Money:

The cost to cover the typical family of four under an employer plan is expected to top $20,000 on health care this year, up more than 7% from last year, according to early projections by independent actuarial and health care consulting firm Milliman Inc. In 2002, the cost was just $9,235, the firm said.

CNN Money: 20,00 to cover a family under an employer plan

As we hear, over and over again, small businesses create most of the new jobs.
Well how the hell are they going to be able to provide insurance to the employees at this rate?
This situation has to be dealt with one way or another, and people aren't going to be able to sit back much longer.

Peace

actually there have been some challenges to the small business claim and the definition includes rather large businesses. Your point though is true. We have a system with huge salary overhead and another 15 percent profit on top of that. We bitch about teachers who go t oschool for six yrs making 80k and are fine with a 2 yr lpn making more, an RN even more and Dr's making multiples of what they make in Europe. On top of that we get ads that convince us to ask for that drug for heartburn because of the happy family images it usedto sell us. We arent Dr's drug ads should be off theair thye just inflate costs. Plus we have the whole cozy-reaserch-oharma-test system which encourages Dr's with a financial motive to use the most expensive drugs. the for profit system is also fee for service/ Surgeons dont make money sending you to PT they make it cutting

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 9:07:19 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Depending on the state you live in, you might be eligible for Medicaid as your supplemental. Medicaid is means-tested, of course, so it depends solely upon your income and they don't care what kind of health care expenses you have--which I happen think is wrong. But if you are eligible for Medicaid, it will pay your Medicare premium, deductibles and most co-payments. Most of the people I know who have both pay no more than a couple of bucks for a prescription, nothing for doctor visit or a procedure.




They have it here but I make 22 dollars too much to qualify for it. The state is paying my Medicare and part d premiums.



$22? ouch!! Damn. Sounds like when I first got my job--made $50 a month too much to keep my SSI and thus my Medicaid went away as well.

So the state is paying your premiums but you still have thousands in co-pays and deductibles now and the state doesn't care if you have to eat cat food, right?

I wish there was a way we could do a fund for ya.

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RE: American Health Care - 4/26/2012 9:20:49 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion


We need some kind of health care system that is afforable. All the healthcare programs in Massachusetts, and in other countries are going bankrupt. There is no free lunch and the piper must be paid.

We are self indulgent, we smoke, eat like pigs, don't exercise and then wonder why there is so much health car needed and why it cost so much. We have all seen the stats that if everyone ate right, kept at the recommended weight, exercised, etc, 35 to 40% of healthcare needs would vanish.

doctors order expensive tests that he thinks are not needed, but orders them anyway to cover his ass legally if you do happen to have some extreemy unlikely problem. Turns a 50.00 visit into a 300.00 to 400.00 visit. Tort reform must happen to help reign in medical costs.

Doctors are human and make mistakes. And medicine is complicated. In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.


I was having surgery. My bipolar medication--lithium--was going toxic. It showed up on the blood test I had prior to the surgery. But the thing is, me nor my podiatrist even thought it was the lithium that caused the odd blood results until after he sent me for a cancer screening and that came back negative. He was going to send me for some other tests and I said "now wait a minute, I have an appoint with the psychiatrist tomorrow, why don't I talk to him and ask him if the lithium could be causing this. I know lithium can cause all sorts of health of problems". I never would have had that talk with the psychiatrist nor gotten off lithium when I did if not for blood test.


< Message edited by erieangel -- 4/26/2012 9:34:09 PM >

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 8:24:51 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

I'm on Medicare, the closest thing to socialized medical care in the US today, and my doctors do not have any limit on how long they can spend with me. As a matter of fact Medicare requires a minimum amount of time not a maximum.

HMO's and other private insurance do put a maximum time per patient on doctors.



and that is the main reason I am against a socialized medical care system here. I keep hearing about the billions in fraud each year and stories like the op where they are being jerked around and wonder, if they have this much problem with the number of people currently on medicaid and medicare, how fucked up will it be when the whole country is using it.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 9:22:21 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		When the whole country is using it* it won't require fraud to get onto the scheme if you're earning, for a start.

*(Apart from those who prefer to pay for medical insurance. This is quite widespread even in countries with cradle to grave nanny welfare states like the UK, you'll find.)

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 11:50:50 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

When the whole country is using it* it won't require fraud to get onto the scheme if you're earning, for a start.

*(Apart from those who prefer to pay for medical insurance. This is quite widespread even in countries with cradle to grave nanny welfare states like the UK, you'll find.)


So the more people in the program, the better they are going to be at catching the fraud? Sorry, but I find that really hard to believe. If they can't handle the ones they have, how are they going to handle it when the numbers go up?

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 12:06:41 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

When the whole country is using it* it won't require fraud to get onto the scheme if you're earning, for a start.

*(Apart from those who prefer to pay for medical insurance. This is quite widespread even in countries with cradle to grave nanny welfare states like the UK, you'll find.)


So the more people in the program, the better they are going to be at catching the fraud? Sorry, but I find that really hard to believe. If they can't handle the ones they have, how are they going to handle it when the numbers go up?


Let me rephrase what Moonhead was saying.
If everyone has medicare, then there is no reason for people who don't have medicare to pretend to have medicare to get treatment.
If everyone is on medicare, then the investigations of doctors to make sure there is no fraud cover more patients per man-hour of investigator.
You hear a lot about medicare fraud, how much do you hear about BHS (Britain's system) fraud? Canadian fraud? French health care fraud?
Where is it easier to commit fraud, a system with a whole lot of conflicting standards, or a single payer?


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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 12:08:05 PM   
papassion


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A previous poster posted that 98.6% of people in Massachusetts are happy with Romneycare, which is basically state provided healthcare. And he said it is not bankrupting the system. From what I've read, Romneycare is going way over projected costs.

If almost everybody in Massachusetts is happy with their state provided healthcare, why was Romney deflecting questions from the other republican candidates about his State's healthcare plan during the debates? It was almost like he pretended he didn't have anything to do with it. If I instituted a program that 98% of the people loved, and it was on budget, I would be shouting my health care achievments from the rooftops! Something doesn't add up.

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 12:14:34 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		There is fraud, to deny it would be wrong, but its made up of something ANYONE in any country has an issue with, feigning the extent of the illness, people claiming for dependents they dont have, identity theft and doctor shopping (to get more prescriptions( But a lot of that is helped with the actual card you use to get any medical treatment(at least in Canada)
Mostly it is doctor fraud, by billing for tests not needed or multiple billings,or claiming for Services Not Rendered, *that has been tackled by having to use your card EVERY time you have a medical procedure or appointment*( docs claiming they have seen more patients than possible in a day)
Mosts countries have methods in place to stop fraud, but no system is perfect.
However when everyone ( legal) is covered, the fraud is NOT needed by the huge huge majority of patients..

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 12:18:01 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion



If I instituted a program that 98% of the people loved, and it was on budget, I would be shouting my health care achievments from the rooftops! Something doesn't add up.

He has to carry more than just Mass to win the general and he is trying to cater to the TEAbaggers who have been carrying signs saying "Keep the government Out of My Medicare"

So-Called "Obamacare" is pretty much Romneycare expanded nationwide. If he claims that Romneycare worked, he has to give someone on the D side credit for taking it nationwide. In the world of politics, giving the other guy credit for anything short of raping virgins and ripping out their still beating hearts in a satanic ritual on a full moon night under a commie flag is a no go.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 4/27/2012 12:19:04 PM >

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 12:56:48 PM   
Mupainurpleasure


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Status: offline 		1st logic failure http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/08/03/gvsd0804.htm Private Insurers are not immune from fraud. 2nd logic failure On average, the authors found that fees for a typical patient office visit were 21 percent (public payers) to 41 percent (private payers) higher in the United States compared to the other countries studied. For total hip replacement, average fees paid in the United States were 41 percent (public payers) to 54 percent (private payers) higher than in the other five countries. http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/nov11/advocacy3.asp That Dr who spent time with the patient got laess than he would of by a private plan it wasnt more money. The insurance and medicare dont put limits on time they put limits on the cost of the visit and medicare is cheaper. Now since, the reason you oppose socialized medicine is not true but the opposite will yoube coming on board Thishereboi or is the opposition an act of faith?

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 1:30:25 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

American Health Care

is an oxymoron.



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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 1:46:30 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Depending on the state you live in, you might be eligible for Medicaid as your supplemental. Medicaid is means-tested, of course, so it depends solely upon your income and they don't care what kind of health care expenses you have--which I happen think is wrong. But if you are eligible for Medicaid, it will pay your Medicare premium, deductibles and most co-payments. Most of the people I know who have both pay no more than a couple of bucks for a prescription, nothing for doctor visit or a procedure.




They have it here but I make 22 dollars too much to qualify for it. The state is paying my Medicare and part d premiums.



$22? ouch!! Damn. Sounds like when I first got my job--made $50 a month too much to keep my SSI and thus my Medicaid went away as well.

So the state is paying your premiums but you still have thousands in co-pays and deductibles now and the state doesn't care if you have to eat cat food, right?

I wish there was a way we could do a fund for ya.




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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 3:48:41 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion
In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.

I'm on Medicare, the closest thing to socialized medical care in the US today, and my doctors do not have any limit on how long they can spend with me. As a matter of fact Medicare requires a minimum amount of time not a maximum.

HMO's and other private insurance do put a maximum time per patient on doctors.



and that is the main reason I am against a socialized medical care system here. I keep hearing about the billions in fraud each year and stories like the op where they are being jerked around and wonder, if they have this much problem with the number of people currently on medicaid and medicare, how fucked up will it be when the whole country is using it.

Just imagine, a few people will game the system and many times more will not die early. What a conundrum.

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RE: American Health Care - 4/27/2012 5:37:15 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: papassion

In socialized medicine, doctors only have a certain amount of time per patient. If you want socialized medicine, be prepared to accept the realities that goes with it.


Actually, in the socialized VA system, I get far more time during the doctor's visits than I ever did w BCBS. In fact, both my primary and GYN added unplanned procedures during my visits. I was there so long I apologized to the patients who followed me.

Are wait times for specialists higher? For a chronic (ie not urgent) knee pain I had to wait about a month for an MRI and an appt with an Orthopedic surgeon. Considering my cost is zero, I'm not complaining about that.

Within the VA system I do have to exert more effort to bend the doctors to my will. Perhaps it's easier for BCBS doctors to acquiesce when they only budget 15 minutes per patient.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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