Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian

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Fightdirecto -> Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 7:31:59 AM)
Marine discharged over online Obama comments quote: A Marine who used his Facebook page to criticize President Barack Obama has been discharged, a Marine Corps spokesman said Wednesday. Sgt. Gary Stein was given an "other-than-honorable" discharge, said Capt. Brian Block, a spokesman for the Marines. Among other comments posted to his Facebook page, Stein called Obama a liar and suggested he would not follow some orders issued by the president. An other-than-honorable discharge is given to a Marine who commits a "serious offense" that significantly differs from conduct expected of a Marine, the Corps said. A statement from the Marines said it approved the findings of a military board, which in March recommended the discharge. The board found Stein violated rules limiting political conduct by service members... Stein, who is based at Camp Pendleton near San Diego, California, called Obama a liar in a January 26 post to the Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page. Two days later, he said the president is "the 'Domestic Enemy' our oath speaks about." In a March 4 posting, Stein questioned Obama's birth certificate. Another discussion on the site in March said Stein would refuse to obey orders given by Obama. He later clarified to say he meant illegal orders, which he has explained as orders such as sending the military to Syria without congressional approval. While the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the free speech rights of ordinary citizens, a Defense Department rule prohibits service members from engaging in some forms of political activity. Among the prohibited activities are publishing partisan political articles or serving in an official capacity with a partisan political club. Commentary by CNN's Dean Obeidallah, which I agree with 110%: Marine's Facebook posts on Obama go too far quote: What would happen if you posted derogatory comments about your boss on a Facebook page that you knew would be read by your co-workers? How would your boss react if in those Facebook posts you called him or her a "coward," a "domestic enemy," and boasted that you wouldn't be following the boss' instructions in the future? And what if your boss is the president of the United States and you are a sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps? That's essentially the case of Sgt. Gary Stein, a nine-year veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps, who is on the verge of being discharged from the military for making comments on Facebook about his boss: the commander-in-chief, President Barack Obama. Stein posted comments on both his personal Facebook page and on The Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page he created, mocking the president. On those pages he referred to President Obama as a "domestic enemy," a coward, and even superimposed President Obama's face on the poster for the movie "Jackass." But the comment that really drew the ire of Marine Corps brass was this post from Stein: "As an Active Duty Marine I say 'Screw Obama' and I will not follow all orders from him ... as for saluting Obama as commander-in-chief ... I will not!" The U.S. military has alleged that Stein's postings violated military regulations prohibiting partisan political statements while in active service in the military. Consequently, Stein was charged with conduct "prejudicial to good order and discipline." [Poster's Comment: The specific article of the Uniform Code Of Military Justice now former SGT Stein violated is Article 134]... Bottom line: Stein, upon enlisting, agreed to follow the rules of the U.S. Military, which contain express regulations prohibiting certain partisan political speech. As a result of his apparent violations of these regulations, a military panel ruled last week three to zero to discharge Stein from the military... Adding to the growing partisanship of this case is that the lawyer now representing Stein - Gary Kreep - was one of the lead organizers of the birther movement, which contended falsely that President Obama was not born in America and, thus, not legitimately the president. Kreep even created a 28-minute infomercial on the birther issue in which he hawked "Got a Birth Certificate" bumper stickers for $30 each... Inserting partisan politics into our military is dangerous. Our nation's military cannot be divided into political factions where loyalty is based on whether service members agree with the political views of the commander-in-chief. As the U.S. Supreme Court noted when upholding restrictions on partisan politics in the military: We live under "...the American constitutional tradition of a politically neutral military establishment under civilian control." There should be zero tolerance by the military for any partisan politicking by active duty service men or women. This is not only "prejudicial to good order and discipline," but could lead to the loss of lives. We already have one dysfunctional institution marred by partisan infighting - the U.S. Congress - we can't afford another. As my mom used to say: "Good riddance to bad rubbish".

Rule -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 7:43:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto quote: A Marine who used his Facebook page to criticize President Barack Obama has been discharged, a Marine Corps spokesman said Wednesday. Sgt. Gary Stein was given an "other-than-honorable" discharge, said Capt. Brian Block, a spokesman for the Marines. Something similar happened with Lee HO and Timmy McV.

Nosathro -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 7:54:13 AM)
So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col.

Moonhead -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 7:56:10 AM)
Were they members of anti Carterist political clubs and stating that they were going to refuse to obey any orders issued by Carter, though?

mnottertail -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:00:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col. The Republicans under W curtailed all that shit. It is now not just a good idea, its the law.....I had it pointed out to me by kalikashama I think.......because I took offense at the idea that they could do that, and it was on the thread that had to do with the Marine Sergeant bitching at police about what they were doing at OWS NY one day....

Trekkie -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:12:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col. The rule now (don't know if it was the rule, then) is that military personnel have freedom of speech when they aren't representing the armed forces. For example, they're allowed to march in political rallys. But not to do so in uniform. If they aren't in uniform, then they're a citizen. If they're in uniform, then it's like they're saying that the uniform endorses (whatever the rally is about). Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper, and sign it Joe Blow, and you're good. Write the exact same letter, and sign it Sgt Joe Blow, USMC, and you can, technically, face court martial. I've been told, by current military personnel, that these rules are part of UCMJ (technically, you can be court martialed for them), and that personnel are briefed on these rules, and what's allowed and what isn't.

jlf1961 -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:16:38 AM)
Considering that these rules about political activities are part of the UCMJ, and have been for years, if those officers at Fort Stewart had made those remarks in a public media outlet, such as the paper, or a tv station, signed their name, rank and branch of service they would have been dealt with in the same manner.

Fightdirecto -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:26:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekkie I've been told, by current military personnel, that these rules are part of UCMJ (technically, you can be court martialed for them), and that personnel are briefed on these rules, and what's allowed and what isn't. As I appended to my OP, the applicable Uniform Code Of Military Justice Article is Article 134 (known unofficially in the Army as the "Catch-All" article): quote: ...all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces...shall be punished at the discretion of the Court Martial. Maximum punishment for violating UCMJ Article 134 is 5 years in a military prison and a dishonorable discharge. He got off easy...

LaTigresse -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:27:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekkie quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col. The rule now (don't know if it was the rule, then) is that military personnel have freedom of speech when they aren't representing the armed forces. For example, they're allowed to march in political rallys. But not to do so in uniform. If they aren't in uniform, then they're a citizen. If they're in uniform, then it's like they're saying that the uniform endorses (whatever the rally is about). Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper, and sign it Joe Blow, and you're good. Write the exact same letter, and sign it Sgt Joe Blow, USMC, and you can, technically, face court martial. I've been told, by current military personnel, that these rules are part of UCMJ (technically, you can be court martialed for them), and that personnel are briefed on these rules, and what's allowed and what isn't. Yep. As Generic Dude explained to me years ago.......I, as a civilian, can shout from the highest rooftops, go on television, write with great eloquence, what a putz I think the president is. He, as a soldier, who's commander in chief is the president of the United States, could support MY freedom of speech, but did not, as a soldier, of the United States, have the same freedom of speech I did. It was so ingrained in him that, even now, he is cautious with his words of criticism.

Nosathro -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:44:49 AM)
"When we assume the soldier, we do not lay aside the citizen" General George Washington. So what everyone is say is that those who defend the Constitution, as is stated in the oath, are not allowed the freedoms? Glad I am not in the Army now, I tell you all to go defend yourselves.

LaTigresse -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 8:56:18 AM)
Good luck with that. If a man or woman, takes an oath for all that oath entails, and yet cannot uphold all that oath entails, it says far more about the lack of character of the individual that took the oath, than the cause of the moment of weakness in breaking that oath.

SoftBonds -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 9:47:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro "When we assume the soldier, we do not lay aside the citizen" General George Washington. So what everyone is say is that those who defend the Constitution, as is stated in the oath, are not allowed the freedoms? Glad I am not in the Army now, I tell you all to go defend yourselves. No, that is not what everyone is saying, and the military is pretty clear on it. There is every attempt made to allow freedom of speech to the military, but they have a requirement to follow certain rules. Rules that are probably more lenient than your employer's rules, but which are written down. As someone pointed out, go on your facebook page and chew your boss out, make sure he gets to see your remarks, watch what happens. Actual rules for the military: Say what you want, but don't say it in the context of the military. If I say I am in service X, or mention my rank, or even say "as an active duty or reserve member of the US armed forces, I think..." then I am speaking as a soldier, and can be disciplined, up to and including court martial, for my speech. If I take off my uniform and wear civilian clothing, I can march in a tea party rally, post on right wing pages, have a right wing blog, etc. Retired/discharged military can say whatever they want, and can wear their uniforms to rallies if they want, as long as they are clear when asked that they no longer are in the service. Depending on the Supreme Court ruling on the stolen valor law, they can even add medals they didn't earn. But when a citizen takes up arms for their nation, they agree to follow orders. This clown said he would not follow orders. He spoke against the chain of command as his military person, it was pretty much an open and shut case. Or do you want a nation like Pakistan or Turkey where the civilian government has to answer to the military?

Owner59 -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:35:07 AM)
Opps.....funny that he begged to take it back..... Does that mean deleting the FB post? ROTFLMAO!!!......... Not only an idiot.....but no balls either. There`s still a chance though.....to spin this into gold..... Just double down and insult the president more......and then sell your soul to the extreme right for coached interviews and photo ops with ted nugent and Sarah and get a paypal site like George......to soak the deluded for money.[:D]

RacerJim -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:44:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Marine discharged over online Obama comments quote: A Marine who used his Facebook page to criticize President Barack Obama has been discharged, a Marine Corps spokesman said Wednesday. Sgt. Gary Stein was given an "other-than-honorable" discharge, said Capt. Brian Block, a spokesman for the Marines. Among other comments posted to his Facebook page, Stein called Obama a liar and suggested he would not follow some orders issued by the president. An other-than-honorable discharge is given to a Marine who commits a "serious offense" that significantly differs from conduct expected of a Marine, the Corps said. A statement from the Marines said it approved the findings of a military board, which in March recommended the discharge. The board found Stein violated rules limiting political conduct by service members... Stein, who is based at Camp Pendleton near San Diego, California, called Obama a liar in a January 26 post to the Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page. Two days later, he said the president is "the 'Domestic Enemy' our oath speaks about." In a March 4 posting, Stein questioned Obama's birth certificate. Another discussion on the site in March said Stein would refuse to obey orders given by Obama. He later clarified to say he meant illegal orders, which he has explained as orders such as sending the military to Syria without congressional approval. While the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the free speech rights of ordinary citizens, a Defense Department rule prohibits service members from engaging in some forms of political activity. Among the prohibited activities are publishing partisan political articles or serving in an official capacity with a partisan political club. Commentary by CNN's Dean Obeidallah, which I agree with 110%: Marine's Facebook posts on Obama go too far quote: What would happen if you posted derogatory comments about your boss on a Facebook page that you knew would be read by your co-workers? How would your boss react if in those Facebook posts you called him or her a "coward," a "domestic enemy," and boasted that you wouldn't be following the boss' instructions in the future? And what if your boss is the president of the United States and you are a sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps? That's essentially the case of Sgt. Gary Stein, a nine-year veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps, who is on the verge of being discharged from the military for making comments on Facebook about his boss: the commander-in-chief, President Barack Obama. Stein posted comments on both his personal Facebook page and on The Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page he created, mocking the president. On those pages he referred to President Obama as a "domestic enemy," a coward, and even superimposed President Obama's face on the poster for the movie "Jackass." But the comment that really drew the ire of Marine Corps brass was this post from Stein: "As an Active Duty Marine I say 'Screw Obama' and I will not follow all orders from him ... as for saluting Obama as commander-in-chief ... I will not!" The U.S. military has alleged that Stein's postings violated military regulations prohibiting partisan political statements while in active service in the military. Consequently, Stein was charged with conduct "prejudicial to good order and discipline." [Poster's Comment: The specific article of the Uniform Code Of Military Justice now former SGT Stein violated is Article 134]... Bottom line: Stein, upon enlisting, agreed to follow the rules of the U.S. Military, which contain express regulations prohibiting certain partisan political speech. As a result of his apparent violations of these regulations, a military panel ruled last week three to zero to discharge Stein from the military... Adding to the growing partisanship of this case is that the lawyer now representing Stein - Gary Kreep - was one of the lead organizers of the birther movement, which contended falsely that President Obama was not born in America and, thus, not legitimately the president. Kreep even created a 28-minute infomercial on the birther issue in which he hawked "Got a Birth Certificate" bumper stickers for $30 each... Inserting partisan politics into our military is dangerous. Our nation's military cannot be divided into political factions where loyalty is based on whether service members agree with the political views of the commander-in-chief. As the U.S. Supreme Court noted when upholding restrictions on partisan politics in the military: We live under "...the American constitutional tradition of a politically neutral military establishment under civilian control." There should be zero tolerance by the military for any partisan politicking by active duty service men or women. This is not only "prejudicial to good order and discipline," but could lead to the loss of lives. We already have one dysfunctional institution marred by partisan infighting - the U.S. Congress - we can't afford another. As my mom used to say: "Good riddance to bad rubbish". Inauguration Day 2013: Good riddance to bad rubbish.

mnottertail -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:46:15 AM)
Yeah, gonna be a bad day for Romney, no doubt, Racer.

Owner59 -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:48:32 AM)
Who ya gonna run? ted nugent? [:D]

OsideGirl -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:51:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro So what everyone is say is that those who defend the Constitution, as is stated in the oath, are not allowed the freedoms? 1) He signed a contract and agreed to a code of conduct. 2) Freedom of speech doesn't apply to employment. You can be fired for things you say.

IchBinFotograf -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 10:55:05 AM)
First off I am a conservative. I am NOT a leftist/socialist/progressive/communist or whatever you obama mania lovers are. Having said that, if the Marine wants to disparage his commander in chief, he should resign. THEN do it. Or at least do the criticism in private so we don't know who he is.

mnottertail -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 11:06:39 AM)
LOL, if it aint our old friend the broadcaster, alligator wrestler, educator and general inchoate. How you doing? They let you off the leash, huh?

Lucylastic -> RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, now he's a civilian (4/26/2012 11:12:10 AM)
clapping hands

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