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ORIGINAL: Lockit

Okay, it may be no secret, why I am posting this, but because of what was said on another thread, I wondered how many believed that dominants were to be leaders and teachers in the 'community' at large.

Personally, I don't believe that one must be a leader or teacher within a 'community' to be a dominant. I do believe that when we put ourselves out there as a teacher or leader to a large group of strangers and hold this self appointed position or think we do... you have a lot of room for right way and wrong way, egos, misinformation and on and on. I would also expect that you better be ready to be accountable.

There are a lot of people that share their knowledge, but don't take up a position unless others place them in one, of a leader or teacher. They would be the first from what I have seen to dispel any title someone gave them, but wouldn't mind so much if people respected them because of their knowledge or sharing of what they knew.

So it was basically implied that dominants should be leading and teaching the new people from I guess some position of authority. If they didn't, they were not real dominants.

What say you?

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

In this particular instance, the perpetuation of the particular subculture has become its own end. There's something fundamentally wrong with a culture whose focus is "adhering to our leather roots".

I couldn't give a monkey's toss about what leather families do, although I find the idea of 16 year old girls joining leather families to be disturbing as fuck. Ultimately as long as they conduct themselves responsibly, their particular subculture variation is fundamentally their own affair. One of their number attempting to assert they represent the "true" nature of this community and their particular variation and rituals are important parts of the entire culture requires a particular combination of blindness and stupidity.

If there was a point to ResidentSadist's rant, it got last among the waah waahing over the things he no longer possesses and his childish reaction to the inevitability of change. His rant pretty much matches the same things all entrenched power groups express as they feel their power slipping away from them. In that sense, he's repeating history, although I doubt he has the wit to perceive it.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
There's value in shouldering responsibility, teaching others, and leading by example. That's what I took from ResidentSadist's posts. And there were checks and balances to ensure that happened -- and there are fewer now. I think you must agree that when you post on this board, you are more motivated by having your say (and maybe verbally clarifying your own intuitions) than you are by teaching something to someone else.

You'd be surprised. Inasmuch as all of us post on this board as a way of expressing, contesting and proselytizing our opinions, I tend to post what I perceive to be useful. So much of what's posted here could come from the same two or three mouths and there's a lack of genuine difference in the opinions expressed. More so recently, although that puts forward the idea that much of the more interesting discussion actually sprung from ArPig's fictional characters - which is something of a savage indictment of the group-think here.

Oh, and if you don't believe me, go through and count how many posts are part of an inane chorus of agreement. For some people here, that would represent more than 90% of their output. Christ, you can even see it in this thread.

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If teaching were your motivation, your tone would be shaped to draw the reader in, and it's not shaped that way.

Meh. I tend to believe you teach women after seducing them. You teach men after fighting with them.

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ORIGINAL: LunaM
Really? After fighting with a man you can begin to teach them? Education does not come from fighting with someone verbally or physically. What you have created is a mindless drone who will do whatever you want them to do because you brow-beat them into it, or struck fear into their hearts. The way men properly deal with each other is through logic and reason, not by fists and fear.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

Personally, I don't believe that one must be a leader or teacher within a 'community' to be a dominant.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

Actually, it's amazing, but I've had the good fortune to know a few women who didn't need to hide their fear of male power and insecurity about their status behind pompous declamations about the male experience. They were intelligent and secure enough to understand their inability to comment accurately on aspects of being a man that they would never understand and didn't feel the need to try and impose their own views on men who knew far better than they did.

Thankfully, they were also sufficiently evolved to not let stupid female pride get in the way of their learning. Thanks for reminding me why I prefer intelligent feminine women. The screaming, hairy, androgynous, smelly, ignorant feminist harpy just really is tiresome.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness
Oh, and if you don't believe me, go through and count how many posts are part of an inane chorus of agreement. For some people here, that would represent more than 90% of their output. Christ, you can even see it in this thread.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness
Men learn from those they respect, especially when it comes to masculinity. In order for a man to consider another a worthy mentor, he must first be defeated. Without this validation, natural male pride will obstruct his learning.

This doesn't apply to everything, of course. Sometimes simple demonstration of superior skill suffices. However in this arena, if one is trying to encourage men to be dominant, then brutality is advised. If a man can't handle invective online, he's got a shit show in hell of handling another human being.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

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ORIGINAL: LunaM
Really? After fighting with a man you can begin to teach them? Education does not come from fighting with someone verbally or physically. What you have created is a mindless drone who will do whatever you want them to do because you brow-beat them into it, or struck fear into their hearts. The way men properly deal with each other is through logic and reason, not by fists and fear.

I'm afraid young one, that you are extremely naive about men.

Men learn from those they respect, especially when it comes to masculinity. In order for a man to consider another a worthy mentor, he must first be defeated. Without this validation, natural male pride will obstruct his learning.

This doesn't apply to everything, of course. Sometimes simple demonstration of superior skill suffices. However in this arena, if one is trying to encourage men to be dominant, then brutality is advised. If a man can't handle invective online, he's got a shit show in hell of handling another human being.

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

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ORIGINAL: LunaM
Your saying that men are only men if they show their strength or skills?

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A fancy show of muscles or the sweat from combat should not take front seat to the mind. I'm not saying phyiscal labour or exercise does not have its perks, or sparring with a partner, but an actual fight to display some sort of dominance among men is barbaric at best, in my honest opinion. I would think men would have a better way of dealing with each other.

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC

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ORIGINAL: LunaM
Your saying that men are only men if they show their strength or skills?

Actually, I read it that you're only a man if you are willing to tolerate his endless and disorganized rants. I think he mistakes "being able to handle" something with caring to do so. I also think he mistakes bluster for dominance.

I do, however, think there's a germ of truth in what he says. I have, in fact, noted that throughout my career some of the people... men and women both... that I came to respect the most were ones I bumped heads with early on. I've come to understand that that was just two dominant personalities sizing each other up and what matters most is what happens after that. If I go to combat with them then I will never respect them and probably never have any opportunity to do so... one of us will be fired. If we avoid combat, then it's likely true that we sized each other up and both of us decided "better friend than enemy".

This happens some of the time when I encounter another dominant personality and the nature of that encounter put us on opposite sides of the table. It is not the story of my life when dealing with men in general or even dominant men.

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A fancy show of muscles or the sweat from combat should not take front seat to the mind. I'm not saying phyiscal labour or exercise does not have its perks, or sparring with a partner, but an actual fight to display some sort of dominance among men is barbaric at best, in my honest opinion. I would think men would have a better way of dealing with each other.

Well, when I say "combat" I'm including the more civilized variants of that where people get fired or lose a legal battle or some such. But in that broad context my assessment is that a "to the mat" contest is exactly the right strategy sometimes. Yes, there is a barbaric element to my personality in that I really don't have any compunctions about such things. I just see them as generally inefficient and painful.

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ORIGINAL: JeffBC It is not the story of my life when dealing with men in general or even dominant men.