RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (Full Version)

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MrBukani -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 2:37:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I always think its funny how people love dogs and dont give a shit about pigs.



That's not true... I "love" bacon!!! [;)][8D]



[:D] That's true me too, I am more concerned about what we put into our bodies, then the couple of crazy dogowners. It's never the dogs fault so banning breeds is useless. In my experience its always those annoying little mutts that start biting first cause theyre scared.
I hate those little cuntlickers.(thats what we call him here)




Real0ne -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 2:50:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Hands down... Pit Bulls are my absolute favorite breed of dog and would actively seek out a Pitty rescue over any other breed. 



Yeah, well if you live in or ever move to Maryland with your two pitbulls and they bite someone or attack another person's pet, you will be held liable.

What a lot of people don't seem to get, is that the Highest Court in the State of Maryland, just redefined Maryland Common Law to target one specific breed of dog.

There is a bigger picture here....

There have been legislative efforts all over the United States, especially in large urban areas to out law pitbulls or make the owners liable for the actions of their pet. AND those efforts have been defeated almost in total, everywhere they have been attempted. BUT NOW.... again, the Highest Court in the State of Maryland, just redefined Maryland Common Law.







how did you come to the conclusion about it redefining the common law?


It certainly shifts the liability onto a 3rd and uninvolved party like so many other state "presumptions" that are techinically unconstitutional.

Likewise since the state approves people to drive then the state is a 3rd party to any accident or damage the driver they approved causes eh!







MrBukani -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 3:07:18 AM)

Why is it people always talk of wrongs and rarely of rights?
People complain their asses off about problems but rarely come up with solutions.
Is this because people just like to bitch and dont really want problems to be solved, cause they are addicted to bitchin about things?




Real0ne -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 3:18:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Why is it people always talk of wrongs and rarely of rights?
People complain their asses off about problems but rarely come up with solutions.
Is this because people just like to bitch and dont really want problems to be solved, cause they are addicted to bitchin about things?


its pretty tough to fix stupid and the state joins right in.

hence: "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session" ~Mark Twain

the pitbull has an unfair reputation and the liability falls only on the owner.

People over here get them because they want the baddest dog on the block and then train them for this shit. In most all cases its not the dogs fault nor is it the landlords fault of all people, its the owner who wants to prove to the world their dick is bigger than everyone elses.




MrBukani -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 3:30:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Why is it people always talk of wrongs and rarely of rights?
People complain their asses off about problems but rarely come up with solutions.
Is this because people just like to bitch and dont really want problems to be solved, cause they are addicted to bitchin about things?


its pretty tough to fix stupid and the state joins right in.

hence: "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session" ~Mark Twain

the pitbull has an unfair reputation and the liability falls only on the owner.

People over here get them because they want the baddest dog on the block and then train them for this shit. In most all cases its not the dogs fault nor is it the landlords fault of all people, its the owner who wants to prove to the world their dick is bigger than everyone elses.

Dont worry its the same over here[:D] You can easily point out those kinda people, often they wear a bigger chain then their dogs.[:D]




kalikshama -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 7:09:11 AM)

quote:

I always think its funny how people love dogs and dont give a shit about pigs. Cause pigs are food.


I don't buy US factory farmed pork because I believe the way the pigs are treated on CAFOs is deplorable: http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/an-animals-place/

Kudo's to Chipotles. (See Pollan's article starting about halfway down for the evil of CAFOs.)

http://www.chipotle.com/en-us/fwi/animals/animals.aspx

Many pigs are raised on factory farms and don't have a great life. They are penned in concrete and steel and given large amounts of antibiotics to fend off the diseases this type of confinement breeds. According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, American pork producers use over 10 million pounds of antibiotics per year to keep their confinement raised pigs from getting sick. That's more than an estimated three times the amount used to treat all human illness.

Between the mistreatment of the pigs and the massive amount of waste produced, these farms aren't good for anyone.

Luckily, there is a better way.

There are ranchers whose pigs are raised outside or in deeply bedded pens, are never given antibiotics and are fed a vegetarian diet. It's the way animals were raised 50 years ago before huge factory farms changed the industry. We believe pigs that are cared for in this way enjoy happier, healthier lives and produce the best pork we've ever tasted.

We call this style of ranching naturally raised, and since 2001, we have sourced 100% of our pork from producers who follow these guidelines.







SoftBonds -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 10:30:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Here I have noticed that pit bulls are often owned by people who themselves are aggressive, nasty and given to violent behaviour, who seem to regard their dogs as weapons. I am sure they are many responsible owners too who abhor this type of person and the bad image they have given the breed generally.

How does one go about ensuring that pit bulls and similar breeds are only owned by responsible people ? I have no idea how that might be achieved. But until it happens, it seems likely that all pit bull owners will have to pay the price for the behaviour of the anti-social element. I agree that this won't be ideal or fair, but there's nothing fair about pit bulls savaging infants, as has happened here on several occasions.


Maybe you could hold pit bull owners responsible for attacks, like the OP was complaining about? Oh, wait...




Moonhead -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 10:53:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I hate those little cuntlickers.(thats what we call him here)

Georgia O'Keefe's big in Holland?




FatDomDaddy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 12:59:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Hands down... Pit Bulls are my absolute favorite breed of dog and would actively seek out a Pitty rescue over any other breed. 



Yeah, well if you live in or ever move to Maryland with your two pitbulls and they bite someone or attack another person's pet, you will be held liable.

What a lot of people don't seem to get, is that the Highest Court in the State of Maryland, just redefined Maryland Common Law to target one specific breed of dog.

There is a bigger picture here....

There have been legislative efforts all over the United States, especially in large urban areas to out law pitbulls or make the owners liable for the actions of their pet. AND those efforts have been defeated almost in total, everywhere they have been attempted. BUT NOW.... again, the Highest Court in the State of Maryland, just redefined Maryland Common Law.


how did you come to the conclusion about it redefining the common law?

It certainly shifts the liability onto a 3rd and uninvolved party like so many other state "presumptions" that are techinically unconstitutional.

Likewise since the state approves people to drive then the state is a 3rd party to any accident or damage the driver they approved causes eh!


Obviously you did not read the link....

From the Ruling....

"We are mod­i­fy­ing the Mary­land com­mon law of lia­bil­ity as it relates to attacks by pit bull and cross-bred pit bull dogs against humans. With the standard we estab­lish today (which is to be applied in this case on remand), when an owner or a land­lord is proven to have knowl­edge of the pres­ence of a pit bull or cross-bred pit bull (as both the owner and land­lord did in this case) or should have had such knowl­edge, a prima facie case is established. It is not nec­es­sary that the land­lord (or the pit bull’s owner) have actual knowl­edge that the spe­cific pit bull involved is dan­ger­ous. Because of its aggressive and vicious nature and its capa­bil­ity to inflict seri­ous and some­times fatal injuries, pit bulls and cross-bred pit bulls are inher­ently dangerous."




Owner59 -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 2:41:50 PM)

What`s your take FDD?


How do you feel about the breed and dogs in general?




kalikshama -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 2:55:11 PM)

State Bill To Repeal Miami-Dade Pit Bull Ban One Vote Shy Of Leaving Committee: Report

Pit bulls don’t seem to be getting any closer to getting any political love in Miami-Dade.

To the dismay of the breed’s advocates, a Florida House bill that would repeal Miami-Dade County's 23-year-old pit bull ban was one vote short Tuesday of continuing on to the House of Representatives, reports Miami New Times.

Activists are working against decades of stigma against pit bulls, often viewed as a dangerous breed and highlighted in the news for dog bites. The breed was outlawed in Miami-Dade in 1989 after 8-year-old Melissa Moreira was left disfigured after being attacked.

The debate has continued since then -- read New Times' takedown of pro-ban Miami Herald columnist Fred Grimm -- but the pro-pit side has gotten a little more star power. Marlins pitcher Mark Buehrle has been working tirelessly with his wife to allow ownership of the dogs in Miami-Dade after finding out he'd have to live in Broward County to keep his pit bull, Slater.

"My kids go up to him and hug him and squeeze him," Buehrle told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. "He's an inside dog. People always go on the look of the dog, but it's not the look. It's how the dog is treated."

Buehrle and other advocates in Miami-Dade may take a small measure of hope from a similar situation in another state. Just this week, Ohio Gov. John Kasich reversed his state’s listing of dangerous breeds, including pit bulls. It cost Ohio $17 million annually to enforce the law, which a Miami-Dade court has already ruled is essentially unenforceable.

WATCH Mark Buerhle and his wife push for pit bull love: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/pit-bull-law-miami-dade_n_1310448.html

Opinion:

Pro ban: Pit bulls' history justifies Miami-Dade County ban

Anti ban: Pit Bull Ban Lives On in Miami-Dade As Repeal Falls Short in Tallahassee






calamitysandra -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 3:29:18 PM)

One problem with the biting statistics is, that often nobody truly verifies the dogs breed. It was vicious, so it just has to be a Pit.

Can you identify the Pitbull?




DarkSteven -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 6:54:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Ok, just to play devil's advocate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The study found reports of 327 people killed by dogs over the 20-year period. Using newspaper articles, the CDC was able to obtain breed "identifications" for 238 of the 327 cases of fatal dog attacks; of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly involved in 76 cases.

[image]local://upfiles/1052865/F40AC436D45048D5B81A5BC3DBFACC3A.jpg[/image]


Exactly as I suspected. Pit bull fatalities have been on the rise.

I had assumed that ownership of a pit bull would have become more popular with druggies, for protection, and for those wishing to appear badass. It's not hard to train a pit to be a menace.

In the event that pits are outlawed, then Rottweilers or some other breed will be adopted in its place.

Pit bulls are indeed dangerous when raised to be. As will be the breed that replaced them as the thug's dog of choice. I wish there were some way to outlaw the types who would do that.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 7:45:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This is gonna piss off landlords no end.

Renters generally have no serious assets, so making the landlord share liability in essence gives the landlord full liability.

The law is written so that the landlord either knows of the dog or should have known. That "should have known" implies that a landlord is required to know the presence of a pit, even if the lease is written so that they're illegal.

Placing the burden of knowledge on the landlord, even when the tenant has not informed him/her is just plain wrong.




It's likely to cause many disputes between landlords and tenants that already own pit bulls. Landlords will want tenants to get rid of their pit bulls because of the new law. Tenants will say they're protected by the grandfather clause. If landlords can be held liable, what about banks? It's always been my understanding that a home isn't owned free and clear until it's paid off. Banks have more assets than most homeowners.




cloudboy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 8:57:57 PM)

quote:

And those that believe "they are inherently dangerous" are complete fucking idiots -- and likely have never owned, or even been around a Pit Bull for any length of time.


When a court says something is "inherently dangerous" it just means that the owner is more easily liable for damages if something goes wrong. In the case of Pit Bulls, this means that a bite victim won't have to prove that the individual dog was "dangerous" to recover damages from the owner.

Many states have a "one bite rule." In such jurisdictions a dog could maul someone badly in an attack, but if there was no record on file that the dog had ever attacked anyone before, the owner would not be liable for damages. The MD court has stricken this defense and requirement (to prove the individual dog is dangerous) with Pit Bulls, thereby making a Pit Bull owner strictly liable to anyone bitten by his dog.

This shifts the burden of safety for the rearing of Pit Bulls more squarely on the owner.

The facts of the case were pretty disturbing:

The present case involves an attack by a pit bull named Clifford. Notwithstanding his relatively benign name, Clifford possessed the aggressive and vicious characteristics of both Trouble and Rampage. He escaped twice from an obviously inadequate small pen and attacked at least two boys at different times on the same day. The second young boy was Dominic Solesky. As a result of his mauling by Clifford, Dominic initially sustained life threatening injuries and underwent five hours of surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital to address his injuries, including surgery to repair his femoral artery. He spent seventeen days in the hospital, during which time he underwent additional surgeries, and then spent a year in rehabilitation. Here, the trial court granted a judgment for the defendant landlord at the close of the Plaintiff’s case on the grounds that, according to the trial judge, the evidence was insufficient to permit the issue of common law negligence to be presented to the jury.


Most landlords have express language in their leases about what pets are permitted on their properties. Now landlords will not likely rent apartments to Pit Bull owners.




cloudboy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/28/2012 9:20:33 PM)

quote:

Placing the burden of knowledge on the landlord, even when the tenant has not informed him/her is just plain wrong.


Not really. The landlord can have express language in his lease forbidding Pit Bull ownership on his property. In general, landlords do not want their tenants creating dangerous conditions that might harm neighbors or other 3rd parties.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/29/2012 9:23:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What`s your take FDD?


How do you feel about the breed and dogs in general?


I am not a dog person per se..

I have seen a pitbull in the middle of the night, o a desolate highway standing over the quarry clenched in it's jaw, in this case a dead opossum, and refuse to and never yielding an inch to the Chevy Monte Carlo bearing down on it. I've never seen any animal, much less a dog do that.

But my problem is with the court ruling, not the dog breed, More so making a landlord or other property owner liable for someone else's pet. It's a very broad ruling. For example, if a friend brings their American Staffordshire Terrier to your house and they bite your neighbors kid in the back yard, you being the property owner become liable. If a pittbull bites a person on the grounds of an apartment complex, the company that owns the complex is liable, not the pet owner tenant. I also have a problem that it is specific to the breed and the breed alone.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/29/2012 9:31:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

One problem with the biting statistics is, that often nobody truly verifies the dogs breed. It was vicious, so it just has to be a Pit.

Can you identify the Pitbull?


Both the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pitbull Terriers are considered pitbulls. For purposes of this court ruling those dogs or any dog that is a product of cross breeding with those dogs are effected.

It just has to be a bit or a part pit.




FatDomDaddy -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/29/2012 9:33:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I had assumed that ownership of a pit bull would have become more popular with druggies, for protection, and for those wishing to appear badass. It's not hard to train a pit to be a menace.

In the event that pits are outlawed, then Rottweilers or some other breed will be adopted in its place.

Pit bulls are indeed dangerous when raised to be. As will be the breed that replaced them as the thug's dog of choice.




Kinda like a gun law eh?




DarkSteven -> RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous (4/29/2012 7:49:50 PM)

When pit bulls are outlawed, only outlaws will have pit bulls...




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