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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 5:48:03 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


FYI... the point of the post was to demonstrate that these alleged oh-so-dangerous "Pit Bulls" are no different from any other dog/breed -- just depends on how they're raised/treated.





Was that what you were trying to do? Sorry but I would have to call that one a fail. All it showed me is you don't seem to smart when it comes to strange dogs.

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 8:25:30 AM   
cloudboy


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I agree that its vague and litigious. (Up to dispute.) When someone knows or "should have known something," this implies a reasonable person standard. It's damn near impossible to prove what another person "actually knows."

Holding landlords to a reasonable person standard is not "just plain wrong" IMO, although I can see it as a contentious issue.

Here is a set of facts that might explicate the reasonable person standard.

A landlord goes and checks on his property, and he sees a dog bowl in the kitchen and dog treats on the counter. Bags containing dog poop are in the trash can.

(1) The landlord is on notice that a dog is on the premisis, but he has not seen it.

(2) The landlord the next day calls the tenant and asks about the dog and what kind it is. The tenants lies about his pit bull and says its a poodle. In this instance, the landlord has acted somewhat reasonably if not entirely reasonably --- and if he receives no contrary reports -- has no notice of the pit bull.

(2a) If the landlord does not follow up to find out what kind of dog is on his property, aka makes no efforts to find out about the dog, then such conduct would be probably unreasonable.

(2b) More reasonable would be the landlord asking the tenant to show him the dog and tell him the breed.

Overall, a landlord within his supervisory capacity of the property cannot turn a blind eye and claim ignorance of facts he should have known.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/4/2012 8:27:57 AM >

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 8:29:44 AM   
kitkat105


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In Australia we have pretty strict breed-specific legislation which outlines that basically pitbulls are illegal to own or breed, and a number of other dogs, if found off a lead or without a muzzle can result in some severe punishments.

While I would never personally own a pitbull, that is more related to the fact I don't believe I could handle the ongoing obedience training needed for such an intelligent breed. I think if you really read deeply into dog attack statistics, the most "dangerous" breed of dog is the Labrador. This is only because it's so popular, therefore there are more around to potentially snap.

All dogs can be bad dogs without obedience training and responsible ownership.


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 8:36:22 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

6. The solution to this problem is not to demonize the breed, but to demonize the owner: Enhanced civil and criminal penalties against owners of ANY dog that attacks.


The breed has not been demonized, rather strict liability for Pit Bulls owners has been instituted with possible extensions to landlords. Owners of a Pit Bull can no longer cite the one-bite rule as a defense in MD.


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 8:44:30 AM   
jlf1961


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I have owned pitbulls in the past and only had a problem with one that was a rescue. He was aggressive with other dogs and since I owned other dogs I eventually gave him to someone where he was the only dog.

For the most part, the other pits I owned were big clowns, loving and very protective.

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 9:27:50 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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And yet... I've both had and been around dogs all my life, as have teh-wittle-ones... and GASP... never once has ANYONE been bitten -- so obviously we're far "smarter" than the gaggle of idiots who have been bitten?!!  It's not rocket-science to be able to spot which animals are friendly and which are not, or to teach teh young'ins the same.  But maybe this is all far too complex for you to comprehend?!!





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 5/4/2012 10:05:53 AM >


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 10:55:12 AM   
Louve00


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And we have owned pit bulls in the past. Currently, we own an American Pit Bull and a mut that looks like a mastiff (the mutt's father was a spanish mastiff and the mother was a pit bull. Years ago, we owned a rescue dog, a Stafford shire terrior. The Staffordshire was being trained to dog fight when we got him at 3 months old. We never could break him of his hatred of animals. The mere sight of another animal made our dog drool, his eyes turned red, his nostrils flared and he was ready to go, but like in your case Jeff, around people, he wasn't aggressive. I do believe its how you raise the animal.

Unfortunately, pit bulls are so loyal to their owners that if it is trained to fight and sees the pleasure it gives his owner, he will fight to the death, just to please his owner. Bad Rap is a link that helps you learn a little about the breed (not to mention, you'll feast your eyes on some beautiful specimens of the species...as well as some mixed breeds.

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 12:25:52 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

...pit bulls are so loyal to their owners that if it is trained to fight and sees the pleasure it gives his owner, he will fight to the death, just to please his owner.



Exactly!!!

quote:

 

...Bad Rap is a link that helps you learn a little about the breed



Awesome site!!!



< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 5/4/2012 12:26:28 PM >


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 2:10:13 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


FYI... the point of the post was to demonstrate that these alleged oh-so-dangerous "Pit Bulls" are no different from any other dog/breed -- just depends on how they're raised/treated.




No... the point was to show judicial activism rum amock.

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 2:25:05 PM   
SilverMark


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When I first came to Florida and rented an apartment, pit bulls were one of the restricted breeds not allowed in most complexes.
I have always thought that a dog was a reflection of it's owner, if the owner is an idiot, the dog is as well, although some dogs
do seem inherently meaner than others. Not so sure if it is breed related, but if they are large, strong and mean, they do cause
a liability issue. Rarely hear of the pet French Poodle mauling a young child, once in awhile you will hear of a Rot or Pit Bull.
I would guess if a judge were to have heard enough cases of such incidents, it might very well color his thinking. Not so much
judicial activisim as it is a prejudice that is shared by a large number of people. I have to admit if I see one on a leash with an owner,
I would go the other way, or at least not close by any means.

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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 2:32:08 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


FYI... the point of the post was to demonstrate that these alleged oh-so-dangerous "Pit Bulls" are no different from any other dog/breed -- just depends on how they're raised/treated.



agree!

and just so there's no confusion, we're saying (well, i'm saying) pits aren't any more human-aggressive (aggressive towards humans) than any other breed - in fact, probably less than many or most, like say a Siberian Husky or a Chow.

and they were traditionally bred to be dog-aggressive (aggressive towards other dogs). the money is in assholes continuing to do this to breed for dog fights, and amping that up with very brutal treatment of dogs to make them meaner.


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/4/2012 2:43:10 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

6. The solution to this problem is not to demonize the breed, but to demonize the owner: Enhanced civil and criminal penalties against owners of ANY dog that attacks.


The breed has not been demonized, rather strict liability for Pit Bulls owners has been instituted with possible extensions to landlords. Owners of a Pit Bull can no longer cite the one-bite rule as a defense in MD.

please read the thread again. pits have been demonized here.

and the law demonizes them anyway, with strict liability. btw - thank you - i had forgotten that's the proper term. there's no possible extension to landlords. as i previously posted, and as strict liability says, this simply adds a presumption that "they knew" and eliminates the "they should have known" negligence part of the claim.

said conversely, it removes the burden of proof that "they knew", and presumes "they knew". and it removes the defense of "i didn't know".

notice, i used "they" above, because it's irrelevant whether it's the landlord or not. landlords did not gain any new liability. they always had this liability, as you also alluded to, depending on the facts of each case.


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RE: MD Court of Appeals: Pitbulls Inherently Dangerous - 5/15/2012 6:04:41 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Just saw this (and donated to help Lilly)... YAY PIT BULLS!!!

-----

Heroic Pit Bull Saves Owner From Oncoming Train

Rescued pet faces down freight train to save owner's life.

At a railroad crossing in Shirley, Mass., Lilly, the pit bull, hurdled into a race against time. The dog's owner, Christine Spain, had collapsed on the train tracks, and the westbound freight train was coming.

Lilly dragged her owner out of danger, but the train's front wheel caught and crushed her paw.

The train struck Lilly a few minutes after midnight on May 3, according to Rob Halpin, spokesman for Boston's Angell Animal Medical Center. The dog was "critically wounded," he said but managed to reach her owner's side. She stayed by the unconscious woman, until help arrived.

The train engineer had seen a "frantic" dog struggling to pull the woman to safety, but he couldn't stop the train in time, Halpin said.

"The engineer, who asked not to be identified, was convinced the train had struck both Christine and the dog, and realized only after stopping and rushing to their aid that Christine was unharmed," Halpin said. But Lilly had been badly hurt.

"The train's wheels sliced through her right foot, fractured her pelvis in multiple locations and caused other internal injuries," he said.

The engineer called for help. The Shirley, Mass. animal control officer took Lilly to a local emergency veterinary hospital and Spain's son, Boston police Officer David Lanteigne, was notified. He rushed the 8-year-old dog to Angell Animal Medical Center.

Doctors amputated Lilly's right leg on May 5. She had a second surgery to fix her pelvis and back left leg. She has a long and difficult recovery ahead, Dr. Meg Whalen, a veterinarian with the Angell Emergency and Critical Care Unit, said.
Halpin went on to explain Lilly "will be unable to bear weight or walk without assistance for the first few months after her surgery."

Halpin said Lilly is still in the hospital as of press time, but her caregivers hoped that she would be able to go home soon.

"We're hoping," Halpin said. "She's improving, and we're hoping to get her back to some semblance of her former self. But, of course, she'll have to learn to walk again."

Lanteigne said Lilly will go home with him. Spain will also move in while Lilly is recovering.

"Lilly means the world to my mother," Lanteigne said. He adopted Lilly from a shelter several years ago as a companion for Spain, who has suffered from alcoholism.

Spain "doted on the dog from the moment she came to live with her," he said. The bond with the dog first changed and then saved Spain's life.

Whalen thinks Lilly will also make it.

Lilly's bravery "has captured the hearts of our entire staff," she said.

How to Help: Because of the severity of Lilly's injuries and the extensive treatment she required, the MSPCA-Angell has provided financial aid through its Pet Care Assistance program to help cover the cost of Lilly's care. In addition to supporting other MSPCA programs, Pet Care Assistance provides financial aid to families whose animals need emergency, intermediate and critical care at Angell.

Readers who would like to donate to Pet Care Assistance can visit www.mspca.org/helplilly.

Pictured: Lilly, an 8-year-old pit bull, underwent emergency surgery after a freight train struck her. The dog pulled her owner, Christine Spain, to safety after Spain collapsed and fell unconscious on the track.

Source: http://www.petfinder.com/pet-news/heroic-pit-bull-saves-owner-from-oncoming-train.html









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< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 5/15/2012 6:17:06 PM >


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