RE: Dealing with a creep - advice?

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Missokyst -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 9:14:28 AM)
Not all groups have that closed door policy. In some places I have been a closed door means be quiet if you enter and do not disturb the activity. quote: ORIGINAL: MadameM4U Sneaking into a room with a closed door is a clear violation of the rules for any play place I have been. I define "sneaking" as entering a closed-door room without knocking to announce your presence and requesting & being granted admittance. If I had been in your place I wouldn't have been so cordial to the guy. I probably would have said "The door was closed for a reason and you are not welcome here". I would definitely talk to the hostess. She needs to know about the breech in protocol. Leaving it unaddressed leaves room for other rule violations by the guy.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 9:32:55 AM)
Which is why making the rules completely clear is handy:)

Karmastic -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 9:50:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain I'm not sure why you feel you can't speak to him about it. Okay, he might be frightened of you. He might be impressed. He might think if he says the wrong thing you won't let him watch/take part. The only way you will know for sure is to speak to him about it. I would also suggest speaking to others that seem to know him. They might be able to tell you things that could help. Like maybe he is shy, new, or a jerk no one want around. You can speak to the hostess as well but I would make sure you don't imply that the person has done something wrong that might get him kicked(out) unless you are sure that he has. many good answers, i agree with the above, and add... i admire that you're sensitive enough to realize you may be intimidating him, and thus ask if you should speak to the hostess instead. it seems like you're conflicted if he's actually done anything wrong. it seems clear he's crossing some boundaries. if i'm having problems with a particular person, i usually try to speak to them directly. i feel a certain honor and duty to try and resolve problems directly with the person. on the other hand, this can sometimes cause more problems than it's worth. but same for discussing with the hostess, if done wrong. if/before you speak with him, i would follow MissImmortalPain's advice, and try and discretely ask around about him, try and get the 411. if/when you speak with him, try and take the stance that you noticed he's taken an interest in your scenes/play, and while you appreiate that, very politely ask him to back off and give you more space, and respect your boundaries. and the next time he crosses a boundary, try to let your body language speak much louder, but without moving towards him or getting in his face (being threatening).

lizi -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 10:25:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: lizi Good point about the guy coming into a room with a shut door. See, if he had just made a simple mistake he'd have apologized at some point in the evening for either of the things....he didn't. Which is what makes it creepy in the end. If I entered a room and creeped out the people in it, I'd have said something to them later to the effect that i was sorry about that. Yes, most would do that if it was a simple mistake.. imo, it sounds like this guy spotted DS & the sub slip into the room and after a few minutes followed as he thought there would be some nakedness (which he seems to want the most) and even when DS said something he whined and wanted to stay and watch.. Imo, he knew what he was doing but thought he wouldnt get called on it.. Its my guess he has done this before and gotten away with it.. [sm=2cents.gif] Yes, you said it better than I did. He did it on purpose, it wasn't a mistake. He never apologized after- which would have smoothed things over. Good point on the fact that he seems to be after the nakedness- yup. Have to agree about that. So he's there at the gathering more to satisfy himself than for any social purpose or sharing of a common interest, he's not after sharing at all but for himself therefore he's not really concerned with alienation the others or with following their 'rules' such as they were. I do believe he has done it before and gotten away with it, which was my point that humans in general tend to be forgiving and there are those who thrive on that and get things for themselves through that tendency.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 10:32:29 AM)
Group policy is variable. Which is why you ask someone, the person you came with, a friend, or the host/hostess what the rules are if you are unsure. You hang around, and you watch, and you see who the major players are, and take some of your cues from them. Additionally, you understand that people who have been socializing together at play parties for years will have different criteria for what is acceptable among close friends, and what is acceptable for a near stranger. If in doubt, don't do it. Always be on your best and most polite behavior. And remember you are there to make friends first, get your kink on second. This is all basic stuff, and when someone doesn't know that, then yes, they come across as socially inept at best, creepy at worst.

Buzzzz -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 10:41:26 AM)
Something similar to that happened to me and it fucked up my scenes/head space. I had witnesses and talk to the hostess and she "took care of it". If I were you , you would talk to her in a "business-like manner" and go from there.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 10:44:04 AM)
'I feel that you and I are having some boundary issues. I would like you to stay back from my space and not interact with me or my partner when I am engaging in a scene. Thank you in advance for respecting my feelings on this.' Simple, clear. Don't be offensive, but don't allow for any misunderstanding either. And don't feel that you have to justify yourself - your scene is your scene, and even if the overall atmosphere of the place is more permissive than most it is still up to you who you are comfortable with in your space. If he disregards a clear statement like that then he is a bigger problem than you have a remit to deal with - talk to the hostess ON THE NIGHT if that happens.

graceadieu -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 11:26:25 AM)
Definitely talk to the hostess, and one of you guys should talk to him about party etiquette. That way, if he's just a socially awkward guy that doesn't know better, well, now he'll know what the rules are and try to follow them. I've known some people on the autistic spectrum (not in the kink scene) that really do need things spelled out like that, not because they're jerks but because they just have a hard time picking up on unspoken social norms. But if he really is just a creep, then the hostess will be watching out for bad behavior from him (and listening for other complaints) and can kick him out.

SaintJohn -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 12:43:26 PM)
I would think the orientation covered this issue - but if not - the dungeon masters would be the ones to contact. No?

LadyConstanze -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 1:03:40 PM)
Steven, I haven't read all the responses, but my initial feeling would be that you might single him out and have a friendly chat with him, explaining how his actions can be disturbing and all that, then suggest some reading material about acceptable behaviour at a BDSM event. He might simply not know, and coming from you directly it would feel as less of a rebuff than coming from the organizer or a DM. In case he still persists, by all means contact the organizer.

TNDommeK -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 1:15:41 PM)
Speak to the hostess!

Baroana -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 1:36:32 PM)
Previously I glossed over the issue of this guy entering your closed room (I presume without knocking). Therefore, I supplement my previous post by saying that if I was in your shoes at that moment, my reaction very likely would have been to yell "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!"

Aswad -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 1:55:45 PM)
My take on it is that the hosts are essentially responsible for coordinating articulable information, and can't do that without being told, since they can't be everywhere at once (and shouldn't be, for that matter). As such, you should help them keep their house in order by letting them know what is going on inside it and how you as a guest are perceiving your stay. From the relaxed manner in which you handled the stranger, I don't think you'll have a problem conveying the relevant info in a reasonable manner without inflating it or causing undue concern (it could be someone lacking a lot of social skills, or saddled with misinformation through no fault of their own). Talking to the stranger in question should occur the next time this person is in your space, and should start with a simple explanation with no assumption of awareness (i.e. if he's clueless, it's going to be helpful to both of you to be clear on points one would assume "nobody" needs to be told). Take it from there. I've met a lot of delightful people that freak others out by their lack of certain boundaries and limited social skills (some aspies come to mind). And I have met those that are anything but delightful, with or without those shortcomings. Gut feeling can distinguish some things, and usually does so reliably. What is often less reliable, is our own interpretation of what our gut is telling us. Try to figure out what flavor yours is, and what the ingredients are. On the flip side, a friend has had a living hell for years, in part because I didn't articulate my own gut feeling. I met the girl he was with once, and while she was physically and mentally attractive, my initial impression was that something was missing or broken inside her, a necessary part of being human. The years since have validated that assessment tenfold. No reason to go crazy or be super upset, and less reason to speculate, though. Figure out what your gut is trying to say before making much out of little. But do tell the host, and constructively keep your boundaries. That's my advice, anyway. I'm not a munch person. IWYW, - Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 2:30:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt This is all basic stuff, and when someone doesn't know that, then yes, they come across as socially inept at best, creepy at worst. Just for the record, it took me years to find someone willing to take a few minutes to teach this "basic stuff". It's basic to me now that I get the underlying "logic" of social interactions between humans, much as even angry dogs are usually easy to get along with if you know how dogs are, but it wasn't very basic back then. Social ineptitude is a transient thing if people make some allowances for the fact that there are differences. As graceadieu said, most autistic spectrum people are notoriously poor at getting such things. Here's a simple explanation. Growing up, we learn a language. As adults, we may find the need to learn another. That's when we realize just how much we picked up without even knowing we were learning. How much we have learned. Social logic is even more to learn. And we learn it in precisely the same way. Except an aspie or autist usually won't, and so has to learn it all as an adult. Which is a lot more work than something as simple as becoming fluent in a language like Xhosa or Amoy Min. That you don't have three instances of tone 3 in sequence in Mandarin is really "basic stuff". That is, unless you didn't learn it as a child, of course. In which case you may not even realize that the tones are an important part of the language and governed by rules. Having it pointed out may be very helpful in that case. IWYW, - Aswad.

LadyPact -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 2:58:50 PM)
I think you missed a golden opportunity, Steven. From what I read, your lack of response didn't really establish the boundary. The guy just "got the hint". You were dealing with a person who was shy to begin with and you didn't reinforce that her wishes would be observed. Also, you've given the guy a chance to repeat the behavior by default. If he repeats the behavior with someone else, he can now say that he thought you meant a closed door only in that instance or only when you or that particular bottom are involved. Also, I'm totally with Hib. Just about anybody who does the DM gig is going to tell you that anything that happens that is inappropriate should be brought up that night. That way, it can be straightened out immediately, rather than wait for the next incident.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 3:06:37 PM)
I think I would have, with the first incident, told him that I was the one doing the spanking and not him, to please discontinue inserting himself into the middle of my scene. With the second incident, I would talk to the host/ess about maybe giving him a party etiquette talk. NBMG

LafayetteLady -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 3:47:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl I think I would have, with the first incident, told him that I was the one doing the spanking and not him, to please discontinue inserting himself into the middle of my scene. With the second incident, I would talk to the host/ess about maybe giving him a party etiquette talk. NBMG I agree. While admittedly I don't attend public events, it's been my experience that when people "take matters into their own hands" they, too are often overstepping their boundaries. There is a host/hostess for a reason, and it is their job to deal with any issues that may arise. Even as a frequent guest at such events, it doesn't seem to me that you would be in a position of authority to take it upon yourself rather than tell the hostess.

CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 4:02:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I regularly attend a local monthly spanking party called Scarlet Moons. It's a great party, although it restricts play to impact play only - no whips, no floggers, no fireplay, no needle play, no wax, etc. It's unusual in that bystanders are allowed to heckle sceners good-naturedly and complain that the spanker isn't swinging hard enough, that spankees shouldn't be allowed to keep panties on, etc. There's one attendee that just gives me creepy vibes. A few months ago I was spanking a lady OTK over panties and he happened by and asked me earnestly and directly "Are you going to spank her bare assed?" I was taken aback and replied, "Excuse me?" He then asked me if I would pull down her panties. I curtly replied, "I'm spanking her", which clarified that I was in charge. He left shortly thereafter. Friday night, I was about to give a shy woman a spanking and went with her to a bedroom and shut the door. We were doing preliminary chat when she sat up. The creepy fellow had quietly entered the room and closed the door behind him. I explained that she was shy and wanted to be spanked in private. He said, "But I can watch, right?" After a blank stare in response, he got the message and left. I'm not sure what to do. I'm contemplating speaking to the party hostess, who is very versed in the lifestyle, and asking her to go over etiquette with him. He seems to be getting frightened of me, so I wouldn't be the ideal one to discuss this with him. Also, I realize that some of my issue with him is due to the vibes he gives off, as opposed to any specific actions. Had he, in the first instance, just given me a grin and said, "C'mon! Pull those panties down!", it would have fit right in. Any suggestions? Speak to the hostess, continue with occasional minor corrections for him, or other? Before I start responding to the OP, I want to thank the one who mentioned autism. Somehow even with raising my autistic son (who is now an adult and still has problems with social cues) I had forgotten that there are now a huge amount of people out there with high functioning autism...not all of them can be vanilla; my son isn't, neither is my cousin's aspie son, nor is my friend's aspie son, lol. Hearing this caused a massive shift in gears in my brain. [:D] Better now than at some party when my scene is interrupted. quote: A few months ago I was spanking a lady OTK over panties and he happened by and asked me earnestly and directly "Are you going to spank her bare assed?" I was taken aback and replied, "Excuse me?" He then asked me if I would pull down her panties. I curtly replied, "I'm spanking her", which clarified that I was in charge. He left shortly thereafter. Maybe it's just me, but I see a huge difference between an audience, even with good natured hecklers, adding background noise to my scene...and someone interrupting what I am doing who expects me to give them an answer. After you replied, "Excuse me?" he should have realized his foot was stuck in his mouth and mumbled "Sorry" and wandered off. Instead...he CHOSE to continue to interrupt...AND...expected you perform for him like he's the director and you are merely an actor/pawn. Funny, but the reason why I avoided munches and didn't go to play parties for so many years was because I didn't want to be treated like some slab of meat, or like somebody's puppet. I have known quite a few people who feel the same way...mostly other women. This guy's behavior is why there are less people going to play parties when there could be a lot more of us. quote: The creepy fellow had quietly entered the room and closed the door behind him. I explained that she was shy and wanted to be spanked in private. He said, "But I can watch, right?" After a blank stare in response, he got the message and left. The door was closed, a universal sign that someone wants privacy. She was shy and wanted/preferred to be spanked behind a closed door and not in the main room with an audience in place. He's so special that his wants are more important than the spankee. Look, my son is autistic...but he KNOCKS and waits for permission to open doors. When someone like my son misses social cues, it is especially important to have clear boundaries that serve as guidelines. Reading my son the rules ONCE (autism gave him a fabulous memory) would likely have been enough. If he made a faux pas, explaining to him his misinterpretation of a rule ONCE would have made him see his mistake...also, when I explain things to him I am clear about consequences. (Like, when the door is closed it means someone wants privacy. Invading this privacy without their permission might make the girl feel threatened, and she might decide to go home and not come to another play party again." "If you want to be invited to other play parties, don't try to force people who are scening to have a conversation with you, leave a closed door shut, and for heaven's sake don't ask all the women to show you their nakkie ass...) At our play party, the hostess has rules on the wall in several rooms. If respecting a closed door is not on that list, then adding knocking, saying who it is, and waiting for permission to enter maybe should be considered. Or at least...having "Do not disturb" signs as an option if it's been acceptable to be very quiet and just sneak in. I would see if there is a rule in place already that handles this, and if not I would let the DM or hostess know and seek her help in coming up with a solution. Sorry to hear that this happened and glad that Mr. Creepy doesn't come to our play parties. [;)]

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 4:31:34 PM)
Steven you are much more polite than I. I would have walked to him with a smile, leaned over to whisper in his ear, the entire time my body language and smile there and said "Leave and don't come around me again." Since that is now how others always like to handle things, speak to someone in charge about it and report it.

OsideGirl -> RE: Dealing with a creep - advice? (4/29/2012 5:14:41 PM)
Incident number one, I would have told him he was being inappropriate. Incident number two, I would have gone to the hostess. I don't have a lot of tolerance for mouth breathers that interrupt my scenes.

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