RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids

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Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 2:13:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I always assumed it was because they seem to think that their actions and thoughts of some idiots reflect that of all christians. No we've just gotten tired of being oppressed while the rest of the Christians fail to stand up to those idiots. It's particularly intriguing that the bulk of sane Christians refuse to condemn these people. I remember the mooslim failure to do that being part of the proof that every living koran reader is part of the jihad against the west, after all... Actually all or most speaking up for Christians on here labelled him a fool or a bigot but even if they didn't, the words "false" and "equivalence" spring to mind. If you need me to explain that I will but here is an example as a taster: Prolific Islamist violence is an issue in almost every serious religious conflict in the world, and it is done ostensibly in the name of Islam. It has the explicit support of very many Islamic leaders. Take the violent purge of Christians - last month the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, an individual who holds a position that is a close equivalent to the Pope due to the immense import of the location of his office to the faith, stated there should be no more Churches in the Arabian Peninsula. Actually I think Bosnian Muslims might think you off blaming them for serbian christian genocidal actions. Lets not forget Ultur the last 100 yrs either or the Holocuast and the pogrom traditon of christian europe. the issue isnt islam its zealots who twist a faith. There is no equivalent of pop in Islam PERIOD and the shia hold the man in no regard at all

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 2:28:46 PM)
This is so heartbreaking to read. And now this pastor is simply going to be contributing to more runaway children, more psychologically messed-up young adults, more broken families? And how exactly is this good for us as a society, regardless of whether one is theist, atheist, or whateverist?

Kirata -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 2:34:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle While you may very well be correct in your assessment of how the flakes are regarded by mainline Christians, the case you advance to rationalise 'mainline Christians' reluctance to publicly criticise the 'flakes' fails to hold water. If I were a Christian I would have strong and public objections to a group of 'flakes' appropriating my belief system and using it to promote an agenda that clashed with my Christian beliefs... I would be pointing out how their dogmatism, intolerance and bigotry were not Christian values They have done exactly that. Repeatedly. So I haven't a clue what you're going on about. I linked one rather unsubtle example. Here's another. Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism K.

Kirata -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 2:43:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess This is so heartbreaking to read. And now this pastor is simply going to be contributing to more runaway children, more psychologically messed-up young adults, more broken families? And how exactly is this good for us as a society, regardless of whether one is theist, atheist, or whateverist? I suppose any homophobic flake might say as much. What's heartbreaking to me is that this guy is accepted as a freaking pastor. But I guess that's the state of affairs you end up with when your definition of religion is any set of beliefs "generally agreed upon by a number of persons." K.

Dom4subssub4doms -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 2:50:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess This is so heartbreaking to read. And now this pastor is simply going to be contributing to more runaway children, more psychologically messed-up young adults, more broken families? And how exactly is this good for us as a society, regardless of whether one is theist, atheist, or whateverist? I suppose any homophobic flake might say as much. What's heartbreaking to me is that this guy is accepted as a freaking pastor. But I guess that's the state of affairs you end up with when your definition of religion is any set of beliefs "generally agreed upon by a number of persons." K. generally imo when God reflects a believers prejudices they may have great faith but it's in a God they created in their own image. There just isnt enough hate in any of the majot religous texts main themes to justify the image of God zealots create. ialways liek the jeffersonian bible when looking at broad theme the books a a moral roadmap

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 3:05:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dom4subssub4doms quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess This is so heartbreaking to read. And now this pastor is simply going to be contributing to more runaway children, more psychologically messed-up young adults, more broken families? And how exactly is this good for us as a society, regardless of whether one is theist, atheist, or whateverist? I suppose any homophobic flake might say as much. What's heartbreaking to me is that this guy is accepted as a freaking pastor. But I guess that's the state of affairs you end up with when your definition of religion is any set of beliefs "generally agreed upon by a number of persons." K. generally imo when God reflects a believers prejudices they may have great faith but it's in a God they created in their own image. There just isnt enough hate in any of the majot religous texts main themes to justify the image of God zealots create. ialways liek the jeffersonian bible when looking at broad theme the books a a moral roadmap Then please, someone explain something to me. I understand that many Christians believe that homosexuality is prohibited by the Bible (let's just assume this one for a moment, because I know all Christian groups do not agree on this point). My understanding is that Christ died on the cross to save Christians from their sins. And my understanding of Christianity is that sin is ultimately forgiven (by God, not man). My understanding is also that Christianity believes in the concept of "free will". My understanding is also that it is a commandment to honor thy father and mother. So, while I get, in the narrowest sense, that a Christian parent might feel their children should honor them by behaving as they are told, why does any Christian feel they have anything to say about some other person's "choice" (using the term loosely here - not suggesting homosexuality is an actual choice) of homosexuality. Where does it say in the Christian religion that a father will not go to heaven if his son turns out to be gay? What Christian group believes that the children's choices/free will affects what happens to them as parents on judgment day. If anything, isn't it the other way around - sins of the father etc. Where exactly in Christianity does this concern for other people's free will and other people's sins come from when the religion is based on the concept of individual free will and forgiveness of sin to begin with? In other words, Christianity seems to be about making one's own moral choices and then ultimately being forgiven for your own sins that occurred not other people's sins. So why so much concern about what other people do when it has NO spiritual impact on one's own salvation?? From a philosophical perspective, it seems like a whole heck of a lot of worry over....well....absolutely NOTHING. Some of this would be much more tenable if it at least made some sense. But I have to be honest...it doesn't.

tweakabelle -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 3:09:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle While you may very well be correct in your assessment of how the flakes are regarded by mainline Christians, the case you advance to rationalise 'mainline Christians' reluctance to publicly criticise the 'flakes' fails to hold water. If I were a Christian I would have strong and public objections to a group of 'flakes' appropriating my belief system and using it to promote an agenda that clashed with my Christian beliefs. I would be making it very clear very publicly that the 'flakes' were not Christians (IMHO), were not entitled to use the term or to describe themselves as such. I would be pointing out how their dogmatism, intolerance and bigotry were not Christian values, how the political agenda of the Religious Right was incompatible with Christian beliefs. Any failure by me to clarify this position would devalue my beliefs by surrendering the name to a group of 'flakes'. They have done exactly that. Repeatedly. So I haven't a clue what you're going on about. I linked one rather unsubtle example. Here's another. Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism K. Whatever its inherent merits, I am unconvinced that a book by Spong published in 1992 supports your claim that mainline Christians "repeatedly" denounce the posturing of fundamentalists. I would even question whether Spong's opinions, while interesting in themselves, are representative of mainline Christians in the USA or elsewhere. Has this argument been advanced by any of our resident Christians here in relation to this particular matter? I have not seen any denunciations by the mainline Churches of this creepy pastor's extreme views (though in fairness, they may well have done so and it escaped my attention). I note the recent choice by the Vatican to focus on condemning American nuns' work in relation to social justice and lamenting their 'failure' to prosecute such "Christian" values as opposing gay marriage. Judging by the media reports that come to my attention, the overwhelming response of mainline Christianity to the 'flakes' is silence.

Kirata -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 3:24:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Judging by the media reports that come to my attention, the overwhelming response of mainline Christianity to the 'flakes' is silence. Perhaps that's because, unlike you, they realize that these assholes feed on publicity. Fortunately for all concerned, Terry Jones' recent burning of another Koran drew little to no press, and was promptly followed by a citation for violating Gainesville's fire ordinances. K.

tweakabelle -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 3:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Judging by the media reports that come to my attention, the overwhelming response of mainline Christianity to the 'flakes' is silence. Perhaps that's because, unlike you, they realize that these assholes feed on publicity. Fortunately for all concerned, Terry Jones' recent burning of another Koran drew little to no press, and was promptly followed by a citation for violating Gainesville's fire ordinances. K. A far more intelligent explanation for the silence of mainline Churches is that most of the mainline Christian Churches share the same agenda as the 'flakes' in relation to many of the more pressing social issues such as gay marriage. The Churches hold these positions despite the fact that many if not most of their own followers don't share the Churches' obsessions with sexual sins and prefer to focus on living the message of the Gospels, which is focussed on love.

Kirata -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 4:18:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle A far more intelligent explanation for the silence of mainline Churches is that most of the mainline Christian Churches share the same agenda as the 'flakes' Ah, yes, I follow you. That's very perceptive. Tell me, if these flakes are only the leading edge of a mainline Christian anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-democratic agenda, do you think the mainline churches might themselves be only a front for a deeper conspiracy? I saw an article recently about alien Reptilians. K.

slvemike4u -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:18:13 PM)
My son has been bitching at me for years.He wants me to register to vote down here in NC(I spend half my time here ,half in New York)I have resisted cause I don't want to go thru the trouble of surrendering my New York licence and getting a NC one. This attempt to alter the state constitution has sealed the deal for me,my son is right New York goes Democrat anyways anyhow...my vote means little there NC could be a swing state my vote carries more weight here Unintended consequences and all that.....lol

Anaxagoras -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:28:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dom4subssub4doms quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras Actually all or most speaking up for Christians on here labelled him a fool or a bigot but even if they didn't, the words "false" and "equivalence" spring to mind. If you need me to explain that I will but here is an example as a taster: Prolific Islamist violence is an issue in almost every serious religious conflict in the world, and it is done ostensibly in the name of Islam. It has the explicit support of very many Islamic leaders. Take the violent purge of Christians - last month the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, an individual who holds a position that is a close equivalent to the Pope due to the immense import of the location of his office to the faith, stated there should be no more Churches in the Arabian Peninsula. Actually I think Bosnian Muslims might think you off blaming them for serbian christian genocidal actions. Lets not forget Ultur the last 100 yrs either or the Holocuast and the pogrom traditon of christian europe. the issue isnt islam its zealots who twist a faith. There is no equivalent of pop in Islam PERIOD and the shia hold the man in no regard at all I'm not suggesting Christianity doesn't bear a great deal of responsiblity for the past but that is the past rather than the present. Neither was any mention made of the Serbian genocide but Muslims (as well as Catholics) were involved in the mass genocide of Serbs during WWII, which partly explains the genocidal violence toward Bosnians in the 1990's. The spread of violent extremism directed at Christians throughout Africa (Nigeria, Mali etc.) at the moment is shocking and there is no analogue of it directed at Muslims. The Shia aren't interested in the Saudi Mufti just as the Greek Orthodox aren't interested in the Pope. However, Sunni's represent 90% of Islam so his proclamations matter a great deal.

thishereboi -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:35:09 PM)
I want that shirt

thishereboi -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I always assumed it was because they seem to think that their actions and thoughts of some idiots reflect that of all christians. No we've just gotten tired of being oppressed while the rest of the Christians fail to stand up to those idiots. It's particularly intriguing that the bulk of sane Christians refuse to condemn these people. I remember the mooslim failure to do that being part of the proof that every living koran reader is part of the jihad against the west, after all... Aside from stating that they are ignorant bigots, what exactly do you think the posters on this board should be doing?

thishereboi -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel What's really funny is how many people here "explained" my position for me. The fucking narrative crafting that atheists get subjected to [sm=m23.gif] and your point is? Even assholes like Phelps have followers who believe his bullshit. Why should you be any different.

thishereboi -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 5:43:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dom4subssub4doms quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel When has faith ever been a private matter? Till about 40 yrs ago actually. hell, 3 of the first 4 predidents would be elected dog catcher today based on relious standards. Can you imagine a president winning who didnt belief in the ressurection, one who didnt believe in any bible miracle or one who didnt believe in Jesus divinity? They just werent asked That doesn't seem like an accurate depiction of history to me. quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_religion#Accusations_of_being_an_infidel During the 1800 presidential campaign, the New England Palladium wrote, "Should the infidel Jefferson be elected to the Presidency, the seal of death is that moment set on our holy religion, our churches will be prostrated, and some infamous 'prostitute', under the title of goddess of reason, will preside in the sanctuaries now devoted to the worship of the most High."[24] Federalists attacked Jefferson as a "howling atheist" and infidel, claiming that his attraction to the religious and political extremism of the French Revolution disqualified him from public office.[25][26] At that time, calling a person an infidel could mean a number of things, including that they did not believe in God. and he was elected wasnt he? Today it would of disqualified him. Today those beliefs would doom them. think mabiut it Washiungton could even get the nomination today..... Wont go for mcimmunion and put in writing he doesnt believe in ressurection..... yea he's carry NY and ct and Ca and MA cuz we are godless secularists You could be right. and what's up with the new profile?

GotSteel -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 6:49:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Aside from stating that they are ignorant bigots, what exactly do you think the posters on this board should be doing? quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_healing Thirty-one states have child-abuse religious exemptions. These are Alabama, Alaska, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Virginia, and Wyoming.

GotSteel -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 7:06:56 PM)
You also live in a state that bans gay marriage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samesex_marriage_in_USA.svg That's just a couple of places off the top of my head where Christians have really dropped the ball on human rights in your state and where actual activism could make a difference.

tweakabelle -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/3/2012 8:07:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle A far more intelligent explanation for the silence of mainline Churches is that most of the mainline Christian Churches share the same agenda as the 'flakes' Ah, yes, I follow you. That's very perceptive. Tell me, if these flakes are only the leading edge of a mainline Christian anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-democratic agenda, do you think the mainline churches might themselves be only a front for a deeper conspiracy? I saw an article recently about alien Reptilians. K. Hardly the most gracious concession I have ever received but a concession of sorts nonetheless. Thank you for that.

Kirata -> RE: Bigoted Preacher "Authorizes" Parents to Beat Their LGBT Kids (5/4/2012 1:30:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Hardly the most gracious concession I have ever received but a concession of sorts nonetheless. Thank you for that. [:D] K.

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