quote:

The second premise, that everyone can easily produce a photo ID is also false. Obtaining the necessary documents, such as an original birth certificate, can be costly and difficult. Some voters don't have an original birth certificate. A person's inability to take time off from work as well as the lack of transportation and/or mobility make it hard for some voters to get the photo identification they would need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

The second premise, that everyone can easily produce a photo ID is also false. Obtaining the necessary documents, such as an original birth certificate, can be costly and difficult. Some voters don't have an original birth certificate. A person's inability to take time off from work as well as the lack of transportation and/or mobility make it hard for some voters to get the photo identification they would need.

I don't understand how anyone can function in a modern society without a photo id of some sort. You would have to be under the radar and only purchasing things with cash, with no checking account and no need to particpate in any basic financial transaction including cashing govenment checks. And, on a related premise, why would one not have their birth certificate and going furthur, why would so many people not have their birth certificate that it actually be worth holding this up as a reason not to require photo ids for cashing checks, voting or any activity that requires one to prove who they are? To get my SS card I had to have a birth certificate. It's basic. Basic. Besides the theory, I know of many poor people who all have photo ids because they have to do other things in today's world that require photo id besides just voting. Given this is the real situation I am certain the premise you and others use to suggest requiring photo ids is too much of a hardship may be worth re-thinking which is polite code for it's about voter fraud and we are not stupid.

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I have yet to hear one of you give a REAL arguement, from a REAL source, that shows REAL evidence, that voter fraud is anywhere in the same universe as you claim it to be.

quote:

Columbia, SC --
The South Carolina Attorney General's office and State Law Enforcement Division are investigating more than 900 cases of dead people being recorded as voting in the state to see whether there was fraud or clerical errors.

SC Attorney General Alan Wilson says, "If there's some discrepancy or some glitch or some mistake, we're going to look at it. And before I start throwing out the idea that there is fraud going on, I want to know. I want facts."

The question surfaced in relation to the state's new voter ID law, which requires people voting in person to have a photo ID. Critics of the law say it would hurt thousands of South Carolinians who are registered voters but don't have picture IDs.

State DMV director Kevin Shwedo wanted to know how many people could be affected, so he got the voter rolls from the State Election Commission, which show when someone voted last. He then got death records from the state's vital statistics office and the Social Security Administration, to eliminate people who've died.

But he found 956 cases of people being recorded as voting after they were dead.

"In my opinion, and I'm no expert in this area, dead guys shouldn't be allowed to vote," he says.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


I have to agree.

Now, you mention five percent as suggesting if the voter fraud empowered by the lack of photo id requirements are not fiver percent or more it is not worth the trouble. Think about it for a second after remembering some elections are won by less than five percent.

I think common sense backed by facts do prevail here and so the pushback about photo ids is about voter faud and we are not stupid.

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Maybe I'm nit picking but you say the 5% would sway elections because many of them are decided by a smaller number. You seem to be assuming that all 5% would go the same way and that is patently untrue especially in this state. In the area where I live, the poor unwaveringly vote Republican.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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I have yet to hear one of you give a REAL arguement, from a REAL source, that shows REAL evidence, that voter fraud is anywhere in the same universe as you claim it to be.

Sure. As you know, photo ids will keep people from voting for those who are dead or who are not likely to vote....

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/jan/12/900-dead-voters-sc-fraud-or-clerical-errors-ar-3034169/

quote:

Columbia, SC --
The South Carolina Attorney General's office and State Law Enforcement Division are investigating more than 900 cases of dead people being recorded as voting in the state to see whether there was fraud or clerical errors.

SC Attorney General Alan Wilson says, "If there's some discrepancy or some glitch or some mistake, we're going to look at it. And before I start throwing out the idea that there is fraud going on, I want to know. I want facts."

The question surfaced in relation to the state's new voter ID law, which requires people voting in person to have a photo ID. Critics of the law say it would hurt thousands of South Carolinians who are registered voters but don't have picture IDs.

State DMV director Kevin Shwedo wanted to know how many people could be affected, so he got the voter rolls from the State Election Commission, which show when someone voted last. He then got death records from the state's vital statistics office and the Social Security Administration, to eliminate people who've died.

But he found 956 cases of people being recorded as voting after they were dead.

"In my opinion, and I'm no expert in this area, dead guys shouldn't be allowed to vote," he says.

I have to agree.

Now, you mention five percent as suggesting if the voter fraud empowered by the lack of photo id requirements are not fiver percent or more it is not worth the trouble. Think about it for a second after remembering some elections are won by less than five percent.

I think common sense backed by facts do prevail here and so the pushback about photo ids is about voter faud and we are not stupid.

quote:




Election Commission: No evidence of voter fraud

But attorney general calls report ‘premature’
By ADAM BEAM
[email protected]







The State Election Commission said Thursday that 95 percent of the 207 allegedly dead people who voted in the 2010 general election either were alive and cast ballots legally or did not vote.
Of its review of the 207 contested votes cast in 2010, the commission found:

• 106 votes were clerical errors by poll workers – mistakes like marking John Doe Sr. instead of John Doe Jr.

• 56 votes were “bad data matching” – meaning the state Department of Motor Vehicles, which raised concerns about zombie voters, was wrong in assuming the voters were dead.

• 32 votes were “voter participation errors,” meaning someone was credited as voting in an election when they did not, most likely because of a stray mark on the voter rolls that was electronically scanned to record a voter’s participation.

• Three ballots were cast absentee by voters who died before Election Day.

The Election Commission said it had “insufficient information” to explain the 10 contested votes because:

• In seven cases, the voters’ signatures on poll records could not be matched to “another voter.”

• In two cases, the poll list is missing “making it impossible to match the signature with another person.”

• In one case, the voter’s signature appeared to match a voter in another precinct “but could not be verified.”

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ORIGINAL: joether
Yes that voter fraud that happens so often, right? I have yet to hear one of you give a REAL arguement, from a REAL source, that shows REAL evidence, that voter fraud is anywhere in the same universe as you claim it to be. After 11 pages, one would think, someone would post some accurate information that shows even 5% of the vote was proved to be fraud! And all this time, its been nothing but misdirection, stalling, false leads and garbage! Not one person can arguement against the 4th Amendment, which was set up by the founding fathers for this exact purpose! They didnt want the goverment knowing anything more about you than it had to. And I dont recall the history books ever stating that the founding fathers needed a photo ID to vote on things!

4. The TSA Cost Too Much Money.

The TSA’s budget has increased from $4.7 billion in 2002 to $7.8 billion in 2011. Despite the 60 percent increase in funding in less than a decade, the TSA has not improved safety at airports. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay billions of dollars a year for an incompetent bureaucracy.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
DS, possibly we need a separate thread on the TSA to keep this one from drifting too far.
Would you mind starting one?

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That's been disproven you know

quote:


(SC) State DMV director Kevin Shwedo wanted to know how many people could be affected, so he got the voter rolls from the State Election Commission, which show when someone voted last. He then got death records from the state's vital statistics office and the Social Security Administration, to eliminate people who've died. But he found 956 cases of people being recorded as voting after they were dead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

I have yet to hear one of you give a REAL arguement, from a REAL source, that shows REAL evidence, that voter fraud is anywhere in the same universe as you claim it to be.

Sure. As you know, photo ids will keep people from voting for those who are dead or who are not likely to vote....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:


Columbia, SC --
The South Carolina Attorney General's office and State Law Enforcement Division are investigating more than 900 cases of dead people being recorded as voting in the state to see whether there was fraud or clerical errors.

SC Attorney General Alan Wilson says, "If there's some discrepancy or some glitch or some mistake, we're going to look at it. And before I start throwing out the idea that there is fraud going on, I want to know. I want facts."

The question surfaced in relation to the state's new voter ID law, which requires people voting in person to have a photo ID. Critics of the law say it would hurt thousands of South Carolinians who are registered voters but don't have picture IDs.

State DMV director Kevin Shwedo wanted to know how many people could be affected, so he got the voter rolls from the State Election Commission, which show when someone voted last. He then got death records from the state's vital statistics office and the Social Security Administration, to eliminate people who've died.

But he found 956 cases of people being recorded as voting after they were dead.

"In my opinion, and I'm no expert in this area, dead guys shouldn't be allowed to vote," he says.

I have to agree.

Now, you mention five percent as suggesting if the voter fraud empowered by the lack of photo id requirements are not fiver percent or more it is not worth the trouble. Think about it for a second after remembering some elections are won by less than five percent.

I think common sense backed by facts do prevail here and so the pushback about photo ids is about voter faud and we are not stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
DS, possibly we need a separate thread on the TSA to keep this one from drifting too far.
Would you mind starting one?

That was not the intent of my post. I brought the TSA up to show how hypocritical it is to argue against something's cost simply based on whether or not the concern exists. If D's are going to piss and moan about the millions of $$ it's going to cost (less and less as the policy takes effect) to run, how is it that the TSA's billions have not been addressed? We have $1.3+T deficit, and D's are going to whine about millions the STATES are going to have to spend? Isn't that like mentioning the mote in someone's eye while ignoring the plank in your own?

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ORIGINAL: joether

So I should be forced to surrender my 4th amendment rights

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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That's been disproven you know

No. Here is the link to the article you are quoting and it is good to provide a link so everyone can read the context. http://www.thestate.com/2012/02/23/2164540/state-election-commission-finds.html

But to save everyone the trouble, the context is they are reports for two different studies, two different samples and two different reports from two different agencies. The agency I quote is from this link http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/jan/12/900-dead-voters-sc-fraud-or-clerical-errors-ar-3034169/

quote:


(SC) State DMV director Kevin Shwedo wanted to know how many people could be affected, so he got the voter rolls from the State Election Commission, which show when someone voted last. He then got death records from the state's vital statistics office and the Social Security Administration, to eliminate people who've died. But he found 956 cases of people being recorded as voting after they were dead.

Period. No mistake. No pre-mature reporting. These were dead people whose vote was cast by someone pretending to be them.

Now, obviously if there is a john smith jr. who is voting and John Smith senior is dead and listed in the same precinct then I can understand a mistake happening but not 900 times even in a large vote. Again, common sense serves us well here and in November. BTW, he is just focused on dead voters and not the voters who come to vote and find they already voted or worse yet those who never vote in but have their votes cast. Does anyone remember Acorn?

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

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ORIGINAL: joether
So I should be forced to surrender my 4th amendment rights

No, because showing an ID =/= surrender of 4th amendment rights. There is an argument about it violating the 24th, albeit a weak one, but in a fair bit of research I've only found one challenge that went to court on the grounds of it violating 4th amendment rights, and the court threw it out feeling there was no merit to it.

The challenges based on the 24th amendment are gaining a bit more traction in some areas though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I agree with Hill, this is off topic, but could be a good discussion topic all on its own. The 'concept' of showing (or not) voter ID's is entirely different from that of the 'concept' known as the TSA. Yes, the are both in the USA, goverment funds are/would be used on them, and it involves Americans. But the two concepts really are very different from each other. Your not comparing 'like' concepts (i.e. Two Oranges) but two things that dont share even remotely close metrics (i.e. an Orange and a Jedi Knight).