Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 12:48:31 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

At 1/32 Cherokee she has as much Cherokee in her as Bill John Baker, the current Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. And most Cherokee are of mixed descent. So she seems pretty Cherokee to me. And at 1/32 Cherokee, both Warren and Baker are much more Cherokee than me - at zero.


Well Well Well... Now they'll just go to plan B and claim she did receive preferential treatment and caterwaul about how it constitutes "affirmative action".

Either way it doesn't stop Scott Brown from totally sucking dick as a Senator.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 1:15:48 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


I know plenty of people who when asked about their heritage will list a long litany of backgrounds - which means some of the backgrounds are obviously a small part, but so what? If it's true, and if someone feels in their heart that part of their background is important to their identity and that that part of their background helps inform their thinking, then as a diverse country, do we not applaud her for this?




You can feel any way you want. Nobody gives a shit about how she feels about her great-great-great-grandmother. She can hold seances for all I care.

It's the ticking of the box, and advertising herself that way that makes this interesting.

Nobody else has tried yet. Would you care to suggest how she reconciles her own false advertising with her status as an advocate of consumer rights?

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 1:28:50 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


I know plenty of people who when asked about their heritage will list a long litany of backgrounds - which means some of the backgrounds are obviously a small part, but so what? If it's true, and if someone feels in their heart that part of their background is important to their identity and that that part of their background helps inform their thinking, then as a diverse country, do we not applaud her for this?




You can feel any way you want. Nobody gives a shit about how she feels about her great-great-great-grandmother. She can hold seances for all I care.

It's the ticking of the box, and advertising herself that way that makes this interesting.

Nobody else has tried yet. Would you care to suggest how she reconciles her own false advertising with her status as an advocate of consumer rights?

Why is it false advertising when she IS in fact 1/32 Cherokee? Not sure I'm following you on that.

And I'm quite convinced that being 1/32 Cherokee has, in fact, helped inform her political views - as a champion of the marginalized.




< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 5/5/2012 1:31:43 PM >

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 1:47:34 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

And I'm quite convinced that being 1/32 Cherokee has, in fact, helped inform her political views - as a champion of the marginalized.




Yeah. It has so informed and shaped her that she says she was hoping to maybe get invited to a luncheon, but didn't...

Would she support a car company calling their cars "safe," if you'll survive one in every 32 crashes?


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 1:52:49 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

And I'm quite convinced that being 1/32 Cherokee has, in fact, helped inform her political views - as a champion of the marginalized.




Yeah. It has so informed and shaped her that she says she was hoping to maybe get invited to a luncheon, but didn't...

Would she support a car company calling their cars "safe," if you'll survive one in every 32 crashes?




You don't seem to understand anything about Cherokee heritage in America today. Please re-read the part of my original post on this thread that you conveniently left out when first responding to me. The Cherokee Nation isn't buying your argument. And neither am I.

YOU have no right to define who is Cherokee or not. So if I were you, I would let this one go. She IS 1/32 Cherokee. NO ONE is disputing that. So for you to go on and on that she isn't Cherokee is seriously starting to look ridiculous.


_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 1:58:06 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


I know plenty of people who when asked about their heritage will list a long litany of backgrounds - which means some of the backgrounds are obviously a small part, but so what? If it's true, and if someone feels in their heart that part of their background is important to their identity and that that part of their background helps inform their thinking, then as a diverse country, do we not applaud her for this?




You can feel any way you want. Nobody gives a shit about how she feels about her great-great-great-grandmother. She can hold seances for all I care.

It's the ticking of the box, and advertising herself that way that makes this interesting.

Nobody else has tried yet. Would you care to suggest how she reconciles her own false advertising with her status as an advocate of consumer rights?

What false advertising?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 2:00:57 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		Images of Cherokee from history. A diverse group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cherokees.jpg

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 2:30:55 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So I'm guessing you missed me pointing out that six of my ancestors at the great-great-great level were Native American, huh? I don't need a Wikipedia link, when I can open the old family album, thank you very much.

And since she has said she listed herself that way in hopes of somehow connecting with others "like her," she certainly had no involvement in the cultural community.


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 2:34:54 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		From ABC news:

"Genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society Chris Child set out to hunt down Warren’s ancestry last Thursday. In less than a week, he discovered documents citing an 1894 marriage record that lists Warren’s great-great-great grandmother, O. C. Sarah Smith as Cherokee, meaning that Warren is 1/32nd Native American."

She is documented as having Cherokee ancestry. End of debate on that.

As to those who are still pondering "what does it mean to be Cherokee", I would invite you to question your own assumptions about race and ethnicity. The Cherokee are a tribe who first encountered people of European background almost 500 years ago. And they have been intermarrying since with various races and ethnicities. Again, click on the link in my earlier post that provides pictures of Cherokee individuals from history. They are a diverse group. And most today would be completely assimilated into mainstream society.

What did people expect someone Cherokee to look like today?? Like this http://www.lordnelsons.com/gallery/frontier/wright/20.htm

Seriously, the objection that some in the media are raising reminds me Nazis who used to make head and body measurements to try to distinguish the Aryan from the Semitic groups in some sort of weird psuedo-science. A race, ethnicity, culture is not reduced to some stereotype in people's minds of what someone "ought" to look like, or "ought" to behave like if they are part of a group. I have to describe some people's reaction to Warren and her ethnic background as exactly what it is: RACIST.

I see so very little seems to actually change in the U.S. sometimes.


_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 2:37:51 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So I'm guessing you missed me pointing out that six of my ancestors at the great-great-great level were Native American, huh? I don't need a Wikipedia link, when I can open the old family album, thank you very much.

And since she has said she listed herself that way in hopes of somehow connecting with others "like her," she certainly had no involvement in the cultural community.




Fine you can stick to your racist definition of what you think Native American looks like or what "percentage" constitutes "Native American". That you feel more Cherokee than Warren is your opinion only. You can't deny her heritage any more than any of us can deny you your non-Native American heritage.

The fact remains that Elizabeth Warren is documented 1/32 CHEROKEE.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 5/5/2012 2:41:29 PM >

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 2:57:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
That you feel more Cherokee than Warren is your opinion only.



Where the fuck did you come up with this nonsense? I've made no such assertion, and hold no such sentiment.

Oh, and put that "racist" bullshit right back in whatever crevice you pulled it from.

If a new car will protect the occupants in a crash, one time in 32, would Elizabeth Warren favor the company being allowed to call the car, "safe?"

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/5/2012 2:59:07 PM >

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:14:01 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
You can feel any way you want. Nobody gives a shit about how she feels about her great-great-great-grandmother. She can hold seances for all I care.

It's the ticking of the box, and advertising herself that way that makes this interesting.

Nobody else has tried yet. Would you care to suggest how she reconciles her own false advertising with her status as an advocate of consumer rights?


quote:

Yeah. It has so informed and shaped her that she says she was hoping to maybe get invited to a luncheon, but didn't...

Would she support a car company calling their cars "safe," if you'll survive one in every 32 crashes?


If you said the above, you might want to re-assess your definition of racist. You have a pre-conceived notion of what it means to be of Cherokee heritage in America today, and even though you are also of mixed heritage, you feel your definition somehow holds for others. Where is it written that someone of any background has to "do" anything in particular in order to "be" their heritage. This is racist thinking at its most basic and vile.

The fact that you want to deny her her 1/32 Cherokee heritage is racist because you feel she should NOT claim this heritage publicly. What does car safety stats have to do with someone's heritage? To reduce someone's heritage to some irrelevant statistic on car safety is atrocious.

And just because you claim mixed heritage, why do you feel her background, as viewed through her lens, has NOT informed or shaped her? Why do you feel you have a monopoly on how someone of mixed heritage should or ought to feel? Do all whites/blacks/greens feel the same about everything? Can a white/black/green person claim their heritage has influenced their opinions?



< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 5/5/2012 3:19:08 PM >

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:21:40 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Rich, you and I have more in common than you may realize.

In about 10-20 years, White people and Black people will be the minorities in this country.

Than we can both claim minority status.



According to this CNN article from LAST year, White people are already a minority in 10 states!
White People minorities in 10 states

< Message edited by Marini -- 5/5/2012 3:25:47 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:25:50 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

you might want to re-assess your definition of racist.



I'm afraid you are going to be shit out of luck on that, Fucktoyprincess. My core values don't swing all over the place, depending on whether the subject helps or hurts my cause of the moment. That's one of the reasons why I had to stop being a liberal.




(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:28:20 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Than we can both claim minority status.



Or eliminate the distinctions entirely

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:28:58 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

My core values don't swing all over the place, depending on whether the subject helps or hurts my cause of the moment. That's one of the reasons why I had to stop being a liberal.



QFT ! ! !



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 3:35:23 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

you might want to re-assess your definition of racist.



I'm afraid you are going to be shit out of luck on that, Fucktoyprincess. My core values don't swing all over the place, depending on whether the subject helps or hurts my cause of the moment. That's one of the reasons why I had to stop being a liberal.






I don't mean shift your definition as suits you. I mean your definition of racist is wrong.

It is you who wants to change definitions of "Cherokee" as it suits you. Again, why is 1/32 Cherokee not "enough" when Bill John Baker is only 1/32 Cherokee? If you can explain that to me, then we're done. Why is YOUR definition of Cherokee more definitive than how the Cherokee Nation itself defines Cherokee?? How is it that you feel you are more Cherokee than the Cherokee leadership, and the Cherokee Nation itself?? I feel you have a racist perspective on what constitutes being Cherokee.



_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 4:02:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		If you'd spent a little more time on Wikipedia, FTP, you might have noticed that the Cherokee tribes make the determination on lineal descent, or, by a 1/16 standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum#Tribes_requiring_1.2F32_degree_blood_quantum_for_membership

Did she know all this, when she decided to tick the box, or did she just think it was cool, couldn't hurt, and might even get her invited to a luncheon?

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 4:05:37 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Would she support a car company calling their cars "safe," if you'll survive one in every 32 crashes?



If you said the above, you might want to re-assess your definition of racist. You have a pre-conceived notion of what it means to be of Cherokee heritage in America today, and even though you are also of mixed heritage, you feel your definition somehow holds for others. Where is it written that someone of any background has to "do" anything in particular in order to "be" their heritage. This is racist thinking at its most basic and vile.



Man, between that, the notion that it was some kind of 'false advertising' to tell people she had a heritage years before she held a government job, and the jeep ad the other one went low fruit with they've got some strange stuff going on in the logic department.
You qualified what's going on rather well in this post, I think.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? - 5/5/2012 4:28:57 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

If you'd spent a little more time on Wikipedia, FTP, you might have noticed that the Cherokee tribes make the determination on lineal descent, or, by a 1/16 standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum#Tribes_requiring_1.2F32_degree_blood_quantum_for_membership

Did she know all this, when she decided to tick the box, or did she just think it was cool, couldn't hurt, and might even get her invited to a luncheon?

Tribal definitions are a completely separate thing. Where did I say anything about "tribe" in my post. I am asking you why she can't claim 1/32 Cherokee heritage? And you are still not answering my question. I did NOT ask you if she qualifies for Tribal membership which is a legal status in the United States because there are legal rights by treaty that can come to someone from having Tribal membership. That is not the same as ancestry/heritage. The very fact that you would attempt to pull this one over on those reading this thread is appalling. The Cherokee Nation does not prohibit someone who is 1/32 Cherokee from claiming Cherokee ancestry/heritage.

When she checked the box, the box did not ask her if she had "Tribal Membership". It asked her if she had Native American ancestry. And she does. And she can document it.

Is anyone here arguing that Warren can claim benefits to government payments or land due to Tribal membership??? NO

I am claiming that it is NOT false advertising for her to claim Cherokee ancestry. I am also claiming that people's view of their own ancestry and heritage can shape their political viewpoint.

NEITHER of my claims has anything to do with Tribal membership.

****

Not to mention you read your own citation incorrectly. The Cherokee do NOT use a 1/16 standard. I'm surprised you didn't know that:

Tribes requiring 1/16 degree blood quantum for membership
(equivalent to one great-great-grandparent)

Caddo Nation[26]
Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community of Oregon
Fort Sill Apache Tribe[26]
Iowa Tribe of Oklahoma[26]
Sac and Fox Nation, Oklahoma
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, North Carolina
Confederated Tribes of Siletz Indians

[edit]Tribes requiring 1/32 degree blood quantum for membership

Kaw Nation[34]

[edit]Tribes determining membership by lineal descent
These tribes do not have a minimum blood quantum requirement; however, this does not mean anyone with any amount of Indian blood can enroll. Members must be direct descendants of original enrollees.

Alabama-Quassarte Tribal Town[26]
Cherokee Nation[26]
Chickasaw Nation[26]
Choctaw Nation[26]
Citizen Potawatomi Nation[26]
Delaware Tribe of Indians[26]
Eastern Shawnee Tribe[26]
Mashantucket Pequot Tribe of Connecticut[35]
Miami Tribe of Oklahoma[26]
Modoc Tribe[26]
Muscogee Creek Nation[26]
Osage Nation[26]
Ottawa Tribe of Oklahoma[26]
Peoria Tribe of Indians[26]
Quapaw Tribe of Oklahoma[26]
Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians of Michigan
Seminole Nation[26]
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma[26]
Shawnee Tribe[26]
Thlopthlocco Tribal Town[26]
Tonkawa Tribe[26]
Wyandotte Nation[26]

***




_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: What? No Elizabeth Warren thread? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094