RE: France (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: France (5/8/2012 11:52:14 AM)

Oh, don't even get me started on that nonsense. There's a big birther element on this board...




YSG -> RE: France (5/8/2012 12:20:01 PM)

I wont lie, BDSM does seem to attract a mentally ill element, though we're not all like that by a long shot.




Moonhead -> RE: France (5/8/2012 12:22:27 PM)

I'm not sure I'd go that far (if nothing else, there's some very grounded Goreans on here, and if you'd expect any perv to be nuts, it's the Normanheads), but there's a few regulars who appear to be a woodwind short of a trad quartet, yes...




YSG -> RE: France (5/8/2012 12:26:43 PM)

Actually, I can tell you exactly what it is. Its nothing more than good old fashioned sheet wearing, cross burning, hang the ****** racism. Basically, they're pissed the black guy won fair and square, so he must be evil and a liar and a communist/socialist/facist who was born in Kenya and neither of his parents are/were American citizens. [8|]




Mupainurpleasure -> RE: France (5/8/2012 2:47:46 PM)

Oh please everyone knows he's a kenyan born in Jaharta and a muslim with a radical christian pastor and hates the constitution so much he taught constitutional law.....




Hippiekinkster -> RE: France (5/8/2012 5:56:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Rob, you're thinking of this an an economic problem. In Greece, it's an economic AND political problem.

The problem is simple - the spending wasn't sustainable. So Greece borrowed money to cover the shortfall. The lenders demanded austerity measures as a cost of making the loan. The result was rioting.


From what I've read, it wasn't that the spending was so out of whack with receipts, it was that tax cheating/evasion was so endemic that the only way government could function was by borrowing.
"The sight of a helicopter can cause panic in the plush suburbs of northern Athens. Residents know it could be a spy machine, hired by the government to take images of their backyard swimming pools.
Tax collectors make doctors and lawyers squirm by asking how someone who claims to be earning only $20,000 a year can afford such luxuries. Of the 17,000 pools spotted, only 324 had been declared." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/europe/the-roots-of-the-greek-tragedy-bloated-bureaucracy-and-tax-evasion/article2056715/

Funny (ironic; peculiar) that nary a peep is heard from Rob et alia about the massive tax fraud committed in the US by the rich and their companies.
"Tax evasion, which includes but isn’t limited to the use of tax havens, costs the world more than $3 trillion per year -- or about 5 percent of global gross domestic product -- according to a December report for the Center for Tax Justice. The U.S. is the biggest absolute loser from tax evasion, the report found."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/07/global-tax-evaders_n_1497597.html

"The IRS periodically tries to measure how much of this cheating goes on. The latest estimate, released this past January and covering 2006, puts the tax gap — the difference between taxes owed but not paid on time — at $385 billion.
"Taxpayers at all income levels, of course, cheat. But the only fiscally consequential cheating comes from the super rich. They both cheat at a higher rate than Americans of modest means and — given the enormity of their incomes — deny Uncle Sam far more tax dollars when they do cheat. >snip<
"The IRS super-rich task force, reports the Syracuse Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, has so far completed intensive audits on only a few dozen super rich.
"That few dozen represents only about 0.4 percent of the more than 8,300 U.S. taxpayers currently reporting over $10 million a year in income.
"On the bright side: The tiny handful of audits the special IRS task force has completed did recover $47.7 million in unpaid taxes. At that recovery rate, if the IRS had completed audits on all the taxpayers making over $10 million, the federal treasury would likely have picked up over $200 billion.
"In 2011, the IRS conducted these traditional audits on 29.9 percent of all taxpayers reporting over $10 million in income, a considerable hike over the 18 percent of these deep pockets audited traditionally in 2010.
"But analysts at the Syracuse tax center note that the IRS is spending less time per wealthy taxpayer on these traditional audits, only 2.6 hours, on average, for each by-mail “correspondence” audit and only 31.4 hours on the average “field” audit, down from 41.7 hours in 2007.
"The much more intensive audits that the new IRS high-wealth unit conducts, by contrast, can take months of staff time to complete. The agency simply does not have a large enough staff complement to put in that sort of time for more than a relative handful of no-holds-barred audits.
--->>> The reason: Congress over recent years has consistently declined to adequately fund IRS tax-collection operations.
(The REPUBLICAN Congress)
"In just the last two years alone, budget cuts have cost the agency some 3,000 enforcement staff positions. The bigger picture: Just 20 years ago, in 1992, the IRS had 114,758 staff to cover a U.S. population of 249.4 million. In 2011, the agency’s 94,709 staff had to cover a total U.S. population of 312.6 million.
http://www.nationofchange.org/so-much-tax-evasion-so-little-accountability-1335156348

TWO HUNDRED BILLION. That's from INDIVIDUAL taxpayers making over TEN MILLION. No corporations, no middle-class tax cheats; that's from 8400 PEOPLE.

Why don't the Robs ever get pissed off about getting fucked like this? Why don't they ever bring up how much welfare to corporations the REPUBLICAN Congress is giving away every year?

No, they instead whine about welfare cadillacs and food stamps and the scummy immoral poor (code for minorities). Surely it must occur to them once in a blue moon that they are aiding and abetting the very people who are fucking them? And that they are opposing and mocking the only people who are trying to give them a better America - Progressives and some people in the Occupy movement?

Viva le France!









kalikshama -> RE: France (5/8/2012 6:13:20 PM)

quote:

Basically, they're pissed the black guy won fair and square, so he must be evil and a liar and a communist/socialist/facist who was born in Kenya and neither of his parents are/were American citizens.


Indeed.




kalikshama -> RE: France (5/8/2012 6:24:28 PM)

Obama Campaign Strikes Squarely At Romney's Swiss Bank Account

..."As a corporate CEO, [Romney] shipped American jobs to places like Mexico and China," the script goes. "As Governor, he outsourced state jobs to a call center in India. He's still pushing tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. It’s just what you expect from a guy who had a Swiss Bank Account."

Watch the video: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/obama-campaign-romney-swiss-bank-account_n_1467021.html?ref=mostpopular




subrob1967 -> RE: France (5/8/2012 6:31:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Rob, you're thinking of this an an economic problem. In Greece, it's an economic AND political problem.

The problem is simple - the spending wasn't sustainable. So Greece borrowed money to cover the shortfall. The lenders demanded austerity measures as a cost of making the loan. The result was rioting.


From what I've read, it wasn't that the spending was so out of whack with receipts, it was that tax cheating/evasion was so endemic that the only way government could function was by borrowing.
"The sight of a helicopter can cause panic in the plush suburbs of northern Athens. Residents know it could be a spy machine, hired by the government to take images of their backyard swimming pools.
Tax collectors make doctors and lawyers squirm by asking how someone who claims to be earning only $20,000 a year can afford such luxuries. Of the 17,000 pools spotted, only 324 had been declared." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/europe/the-roots-of-the-greek-tragedy-bloated-bureaucracy-and-tax-evasion/article2056715/

Funny (ironic; peculiar) that nary a peep is heard from Rob et alia about the massive tax fraud committed in the US by the rich and their companies.
"Tax evasion, which includes but isn’t limited to the use of tax havens, costs the world more than $3 trillion per year -- or about 5 percent of global gross domestic product -- according to a December report for the Center for Tax Justice. The U.S. is the biggest absolute loser from tax evasion, the report found."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/07/global-tax-evaders_n_1497597.html

"The IRS periodically tries to measure how much of this cheating goes on. The latest estimate, released this past January and covering 2006, puts the tax gap — the difference between taxes owed but not paid on time — at $385 billion.
"Taxpayers at all income levels, of course, cheat. But the only fiscally consequential cheating comes from the super rich. They both cheat at a higher rate than Americans of modest means and — given the enormity of their incomes — deny Uncle Sam far more tax dollars when they do cheat. >snip<
"The IRS super-rich task force, reports the Syracuse Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, has so far completed intensive audits on only a few dozen super rich.
"That few dozen represents only about 0.4 percent of the more than 8,300 U.S. taxpayers currently reporting over $10 million a year in income.
"On the bright side: The tiny handful of audits the special IRS task force has completed did recover $47.7 million in unpaid taxes. At that recovery rate, if the IRS had completed audits on all the taxpayers making over $10 million, the federal treasury would likely have picked up over $200 billion.
"In 2011, the IRS conducted these traditional audits on 29.9 percent of all taxpayers reporting over $10 million in income, a considerable hike over the 18 percent of these deep pockets audited traditionally in 2010.
"But analysts at the Syracuse tax center note that the IRS is spending less time per wealthy taxpayer on these traditional audits, only 2.6 hours, on average, for each by-mail “correspondence” audit and only 31.4 hours on the average “field” audit, down from 41.7 hours in 2007.
"The much more intensive audits that the new IRS high-wealth unit conducts, by contrast, can take months of staff time to complete. The agency simply does not have a large enough staff complement to put in that sort of time for more than a relative handful of no-holds-barred audits.
--->>> The reason: Congress over recent years has consistently declined to adequately fund IRS tax-collection operations.
(The REPUBLICAN Congress)
"In just the last two years alone, budget cuts have cost the agency some 3,000 enforcement staff positions. The bigger picture: Just 20 years ago, in 1992, the IRS had 114,758 staff to cover a U.S. population of 249.4 million. In 2011, the agency’s 94,709 staff had to cover a total U.S. population of 312.6 million.
http://www.nationofchange.org/so-much-tax-evasion-so-little-accountability-1335156348

TWO HUNDRED BILLION. That's from INDIVIDUAL taxpayers making over TEN MILLION. No corporations, no middle-class tax cheats; that's from 8400 PEOPLE.

Why don't the Robs ever get pissed off about getting fucked like this? Why don't they ever bring up how much welfare to corporations the REPUBLICAN Congress is giving away every year?

No, they instead whine about welfare cadillacs and food stamps and the scummy immoral poor (code for minorities). Surely it must occur to them once in a blue moon that they are aiding and abetting the very people who are fucking them? And that they are opposing and mocking the only people who are trying to give them a better America - Progressives and some people in the Occupy movement?

Viva le France!


So you obviously missed my many posts where I said the US needs to cut spending by 20% across the board, and eliminate subsidies... Not surprising, you progressives love to form an opinion of someone or something, and maintain it, regardless of any evidence to the contrary... Like Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change, or whatever name their calling it these days.

I'm all for a fair/flat tax, and know the tax code needs to be rewritten... I'd love nothing better than to see the IRS fire 75% of it's employees... How about you?




Hippiekinkster -> RE: France (5/8/2012 7:27:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


So you obviously missed my many posts where I said the US needs to cut spending by 20% across the board, and eliminate subsidies... Not surprising, you progressives love to form an opinion of someone or something, and maintain it, regardless of any evidence to the contrary... Like Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change, or whatever name their calling it these days.

I'm all for a fair/flat tax, and know the tax code needs to be rewritten... I'd love nothing better than to see the IRS fire 75% of it's employees... How about you?


How about we hire some more auditors and make sure we get that 385 BILLION (2007; probably considerably more now) that we're due under the current tax code before we go fucking about cutting food supplements to children and the elderly?

I am absolutely opposed to this "accross the board" voodoo deficit cure. Cut the $60+Billion in DIRECT corporate welfare. Put the doctors and "small businessmen" who are ripping Medicare off for $60+Billion a year in jail.

That's HALF A TRILLION. Let's get that money, and then we can work on getting rid of Nafta and set up some tariffs with teeth and fuck around with our currency like the Chinese fucks do. Two can play that game. Let's stop hemorraging money by buying all that shit from Asia, and keep jobs here.

How about we close our foreign bases and use our military for the DEFENSE of our territory, and not the income statements of the S&P500?

How about we do all that before Paul Ryan and his gang of elitist rich pricks in Congress kick my older cousins to the curb?

You CANNOT cut your way into growth and prosperity. And who in the hell decided that continuous growth was a desirable socio-economic goal?




subrob1967 -> RE: France (5/8/2012 7:30:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
How about we hire some more auditors and make sure we get that 385 BILLION (2007; probably considerably more now) that we're due under the current tax code before we go fucking about cutting food supplements to children and the elderly?

I am absolutely opposed to this "accross the board" voodoo deficit cure. Cut the $60+Billion in DIRECT corporate welfare. Put the doctors and "small businessmen" who are ripping Medicare off for $60+Billion a year in jail.

That's HALF A TRILLION. Let's get that money, and then we can work on getting rid of Nafta and set up some tariffs with teeth and fuck around with our currency like the Chinese fucks do. Two can play that game. Let's stop hemorraging money by buying all that shit from Asia, and keep jobs here.

How about we close our foreign bases and use our military for the DEFENSE of our territory, and not the income statements of the S&P500?

How about we do all that before Paul Ryan and his gang of elitist rich pricks in Congress kick my older cousins to the curb?

You CANNOT cut your way into growth and prosperity. And who in the hell decided that continuous growth was a desirable socio-economic goal?



I'd call that a decent start, but we still need to cut spending, including progressives precious social programs... I'm all for auditing the whole government, eliminating duplicate and triplicate programs, putting federal employees out of work, and culling the fat.




PeonForHer -> RE: France (5/8/2012 7:49:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Like Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change, or whatever name their calling it these days.


'Knowledge' is the word I think you're groping for there, Rob.




thompsonx -> RE: France (5/8/2012 8:16:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

I have read some of Marx, actually, such as the Communist Manifesto and Volumes one and two of Capital. I've also read works by Lenin, Mao, and Trotsky. To some extent, I can agree with the Marxist ideaology, until it comes to the idea of single party rule, which I find very undemocratic,


What exactly is the difference beween the demopubs and the republicrats?
If there is no significant difference then how is that different from russia?



quote:

as well as denying people the right to beleive as they wish, which isnt something Marx specifically speaks about, but his dislike of religion is implied.


Is it against the law to believe in god in russia?
Or:
Is it that the state no longer funds the church?







Moonhead -> RE: France (5/9/2012 4:04:02 AM)

It's a long time since it was against the law to believe in anything in Russia.
You're thinking of the soviet union, which rolled over and died twenty odd years back.




YSG -> RE: France (5/9/2012 7:50:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: YSG

I have read some of Marx, actually, such as the Communist Manifesto and Volumes one and two of Capital. I've also read works by Lenin, Mao, and Trotsky. To some extent, I can agree with the Marxist ideaology, until it comes to the idea of single party rule, which I find very undemocratic,


What exactly is the difference beween the demopubs and the republicrats?
If there is no significant difference then how is that different from [/right] russia?



quote:

as well as denying people the right to beleive as they wish, which isnt something Marx specifically speaks about, but his dislike of religion is implied.


Is it against the law to believe in god in russia?
Or:
Is it that the state no longer funds the church?






Unfortunately, I really see very little difference between the two. Its really just two forms of conservative capitalism (yes, the left has swung further right in the last 30 years). Russia today has two major parties, United Russia, which is the moderate/conservative party, and CPRF, which is basically the remains of the old Communist Party. UR controls about half the seats, while the Communists, social democrats, and apparently some sort of facist/nazi party control the rest.

As far as beleif in god, yes, it was illegal in the old Soviet Union, and beleivers of all faiths were persecuted, especially during the Stalin and Brezhnev eras. However, Russia today makes no such laws, to my knowledge.




thompsonx -> RE: France (5/9/2012 11:59:08 AM)

quote:

As far as beleif in god, yes, it was illegal in the old Soviet Union, and beleivers of all faiths were persecuted, especially during the Stalin and Brezhnev eras. However, Russia today makes no such laws, to my knowledge.


Do you have any sources for that?
What I have read was that anyone was allowed to believe in any sort of god they wanted but that the state would not be picking up the tab.




Mupainurpleasure -> RE: France (5/9/2012 1:22:49 PM)

Was russia better off when the church had no state support? Seems to me it was.How long till they are as oppressive as they were pre USSR? The church was persecuted inthe60s and 70s and memebership in it was like public knowledge someone was in the communist party here....career ending




thompsonx -> RE: France (5/9/2012 1:57:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure

AWas ruissia better off when the church had no state support? Seems ot me it was.Hpow long till they are as oppressive as they were pre USSR?



I looked in their constitution and could find no place where it was against the law to believe in the god of your choice.
Why do you feel that it is the business of any government to support any religion?




Zonie63 -> RE: France (5/9/2012 8:55:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

As far as beleif in god, yes, it was illegal in the old Soviet Union, and beleivers of all faiths were persecuted, especially during the Stalin and Brezhnev eras. However, Russia today makes no such laws, to my knowledge.


Do you have any sources for that?


Google is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-religious_legislation

http://www.osaarchivum.org/files/holdings/300/8/3/text/67-2-217.shtml

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_v86/ai_4618399/

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/anti.html

(For some reason, the last link doesn't show up. It's at www.1loc1.1gov1/exhibits/archives/anti.html (remove the 1's).


Just out of curiosity, thompsonx: Did you ever actually visit the Soviet Union?




thompsonx -> RE: France (5/10/2012 5:05:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

As far as beleif in god, yes, it was illegal in the old Soviet Union, and beleivers of all faiths were persecuted, especially during the Stalin and Brezhnev eras. However, Russia today makes no such laws, to my knowledge.


Do you have any sources for that?


Google is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-religious_legislation

http://www.osaarchivum.org/files/holdings/300/8/3/text/67-2-217.shtml

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_v86/ai_4618399/

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/anti.html

(For some reason, the last link doesn't show up. It's at www.1loc1.1gov1/exhibits/archives/anti.html (remove the 1's).


Just out of curiosity, thompsonx: Did you ever actually visit the Soviet Union?



This from the very first of your cites.

The holding of a religion was never officially outlawed and the Soviet Constitutions always guaranteed the right to believe. However, since Marxist ideology as interpreted by Lenin[18] and his successors dictated that religion was an obstacle to the construction of the communist society, putting an end to all religion (and replacing it with atheism[19]) was a fundamentally important ideological goal of the state. The persecution of religion was carried out officially through many legal measures that were designed to hamper religious activities, a massive volume of anti-religious propaganda as well as education, and through various other means. The official persecution was also, however, accompanied by much secret instructions that remained unofficial. In practice the state also sought to control religious bodies and to interfere with them, with the ultimate goal of making them disappear.[19] To this effect, the state sought to control the activities of the leaders of the different religious communities.[7]

The official persecution was often disguised under euphemisms in official party documents such as 'struggle against bourgeois ideology', 'dissemination of materialist ideology', etc. The government often rejected the principle that all religious believers should be treated as public enemies,[18] partly due to pragmatic considerations of the large number of people adhering to a faith and also partly from the belief that there were many loyal Soviet citizens included among the number of believers whom ought to be convinced to become atheists rather than outright attacked.


Perhaps it is you who should make google you friend ...after you learn how to read.
You might also consider how russia became a christian country?
In the 60's I made one trip to china and two to the soviet union.
My clothing for these excursions had been "sanitized "and I carried no id. Access and egress were by ch34




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