RE: misogyny in BDSM (Full Version)

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nequam -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:05:33 AM)

@ChatteParfaitt, i think the reason it's rampant online and not so much in the scene is simply because online you don't have to face a real person. A lot of people seem to forget there are real people on the other side of those computer screens. When at a community event, the rules of social engagement come into play and tone people down.



SaintJohn -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:07:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.



WestBaySlave -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:13:03 AM)


I have seen a fair amount of misogyny about the place ( weirdly, as much from bitter single sub males as from dominant men ), but I also think often it's just men trying to sound dominant or faux fetish philosophizing to ( unnecessarily ) justify their desires in a society that often equates male dominance with gender inequality. ( There's a similar phenomena in the whole "Female Supremacy" thing that pops up now and then on these boards. )

Myotherself probably said it best...



amaidiamond -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:13:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.


What the hell does the gender someone was born as have to do with anything?

If someone identifies as female then they are female - point blank.



littlewonder -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:25:47 AM)

I don't really see a lot of misogyny or misandry, no different than real life. Then again I like the whole objectification and beating to a pulp and all that so I guess for me what some view as misogyny, I view as hot.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:29:37 AM)

I do wish you would specify why you feel this way. I think it might allow us to answer you a little more specifically than just throwing darts at the dartboard in hopes something will stick.

But, I think misogyny exists in the world in general, and there are a certain group who will express these views and behave accordingly.

But BDSM does not equal misogyny. So there are Dominants out there who, regardless of what they do or say as part of consensual play, are not misogynistic. And I think this is a very important distinction.

My long-term Dominant partners have all been men who were the antithesis of misogyny outside the bedroom. They loved intelligent women, enjoyed working with women, were loving sons, grandsons, nephews, brothers.

Behind closed door we played at consensual games that if someone had just stumbled into could easily have been misinterpreted. But they were all consensual and enjoyed by both of us, and had nothing to do with how these men viewed or treated women generally in life.

If you are encountering true misogyny in your life it is because you are encountering misogynists. And misogynists come in all forms (vanilla, BDSM, etc.) But please understand that for a Dominant man, being involved in BDSM does not automatically make him a misogynist.

If we want to have a discussion about misogyny in society, I am all for that. If we want to discuss how some misogynists use BDSM to "excuse" their hatred and behavior, we can talk about that, too. But I cannot equate BDSM with misogyny.



OsideGirl -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 6:48:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I see a fair proportion of profiles that do the "all women are worthless fuckmeat" thing. They make me roll my eyes, but I don't see it as misogyny. I see it as guys who read far too much porn and think this is how submissive women want to be treated. Basically, they're idiots.


I'm going to disagree a little bit. A chunk of those guys say it because they have relationship issues and they can hide it behind a BDSM stance far more easily. (There's a whole group of submissives here for the same reason) There is more misogyny in D/s BDSM than in vanilla life, but not by huge amounts. But, I do think there's a lot more guys that don't have the ability to be intimate with their partner and they use BDSM D/s as an excuse or to justify it.



DesFIP -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 7:49:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintJohn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You're new here, female, and your pic says you're sexy & cute


Are you sure about all that? The profile says otherwise, at least naturally.



I was going to say I don't see that much hatred here, until this comment.

Beyond that, Focus is right, on the other side people frequently don't read profiles, just write to the pictures they find attractive.

However, overall I think most of the 'you are fuckmeat' stupidity comes from porn, it's the flip side of the submale lowly worm nonsense. And the people who write this shite have very little relationship experience or skills and truly believe that what they do in porn is what people really want.



ReMakeYou -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:07:16 AM)

SaintJohn caught what's probably the biggest issue. I've seen a lot of casual transphobia while looking around. It's a bit sloppy with language, but I can see the OP's point.

I see a lot of play misogyny/play misandry around, and I wouldn't be surprised if it started seeping into people's other interactions. (More misandry than misogyny, but that's largely on the gay side. Men seeking men don't give a toss about women. Women seeking women have many choice things to say about men.) I see it more in vanillaland when people deal with regular rejection.



kalikshama -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:16:02 AM)

Would I be transphobic if I added "identifies as" to "female" or would I be being precise?



myotherself -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:23:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

I see a fair proportion of profiles that do the "all women are worthless fuckmeat" thing. They make me roll my eyes, but I don't see it as misogyny. I see it as guys who read far too much porn and think this is how submissive women want to be treated. Basically, they're idiots.


I'm going to disagree a little bit. A chunk of those guys say it because they have relationship issues and they can hide it behind a BDSM stance far more easily. (There's a whole group of submissives here for the same reason) There is more misogyny in D/s BDSM than in vanilla life, but not by huge amounts. But, I do think there's a lot more guys that don't have the ability to be intimate with their partner and they use BDSM D/s as an excuse or to justify it.



Good point OsideGirl. I particularly agree with the bolded part.



LaTigresse -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:28:11 AM)

I actually don't think it's limited to guys, or even dominant persons.



ReMakeYou -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:42:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Would I be transphobic if I added "identifies as" to "female" or would I be being precise?


Being a stickler for using just the right words turns language into a tortured pretzel, only to have to start the process all over again when language does what it naturally does and simplifies. Anybody who thinks otherwise is retarded*. I trust you're bright enough to know when it's contextually appropriate and when it's singling them out.

*(Because it's hip to say "I was being sarcastic!" when called out on douchebaggery on the internet, I'm qualifying upfront. I use this word to draw attention to the euphemism treadmill.)



RumpusParable -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 8:56:37 AM)

I see it most with male submissives, personally. I see it some in dominants, but not as much.



RumpusParable -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 9:03:59 AM)

I also think it's important to recognize the difference between enjoying a kink involving degradation/objectification and actual misogyny/sexism. Many people like to play with the ideas of partner value and role, but it's just how they get their kink on.

For example, others have mentioned the tone of findom profiles... I doubt all these women hate men. Rather, it is a kink that often involves (to the happiness of both the dom and the sub) a play on personal worth and service roles.

Speaking for myself, I prefer relationships where the sub is seen as worth less than me (and sometimes completely worthless), only valuable as much as they can serve me, are considered lowly and barely allowed to even kiss my feet as a greeting, not allowed to look me in the eyes, etc. I enjoy living the kink of female supremacy in regards to male subs/slaves and the mutual view shared that by virtue of being male they are less than me.

Do I hate men? No. Do I view someone in everday life to automatically be of less worth because they have a penis? No.

But I greatly enjoy relationships where this view/kink is in place and often advertise that desire/view as such.



cloudboy -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 9:14:59 AM)


Not only that, but a lot of assholes here are pro-slavery and like to stick others in bondage and cages while subjecting them to corporal discipline.




Reikm -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 10:10:28 AM)

Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.

I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.



LaTigresse -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 10:40:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm

Well seeing as keeping my mouth shut and apologizing has done NOTHING to make this thread die ill explain.

I understand completely that the whole "your a worthless slut" routine can be stimulating to some. What im referring to is more of the "womens only goal in life should be to serve cock and they will naturally feel happy finally realizing their spot in life" kinda stuff.I mean really... thats not BDSM thats just straight up misogyny, this notion that either sex is only good for one thing is so stupid it makes my brain hurt. Anyway the whole Gorean lifestyle thing was what triggered this.


My thoughts on that mindset. A lot of people think a lot of things. That doesn't necessarily make them true.



Reikm -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 11:04:37 AM)

Of course I dont believe it to be true, the point of this thread is that its pretty prevalent in the community, not its validity.



LaTigresse -> RE: misogyny in BDSM (5/8/2012 11:09:08 AM)

You've missed my point.

I don't care what a few knuckle draggers believe. Most people do not agree with them and their beliefs have no basis for reality in my life. They can believe the moon is made of bleu cheese but it only makes them the fool. Let the fools believe whatever they want. They are the minority and are only making fools of themselves.



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