RE: Atkins diet (Full Version)

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proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (7/19/2004 11:12:15 PM)

quote:

So, stop counting carbs, and instead focus on getting GOOD carbs into your system. Increase your intake of whole grains, vegetables, etc. and avoid the simple sugars and starches.



That's the basis of the South Beach plan. I am also very active and have had no problem with energy or hunger. On South Beach i don't count carbs and eat lots of good carbs mainly in the form of steel cut oatmeal, whole wheat tortillas, whole wheat crackers, sweet potatoes, and lots of fruit and veggies.



ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (7/21/2004 8:02:43 AM)

quote:

I am an extremely active person. While working out bores the living bejeezus out of me, I now dance 4-6 nights a week, teach women's self defense 2-3 classes a week, and spend most of my time down on the docks walking as much as I can.

I used to have a surplus of energy and would almost never (I would teach a martial arts class in the morning, go to Aerobics or work out at noon, and go do the women's self defense class in the evening, and not be particularly tired when I got home) be tired. Since I went low carb, I find that I am hungry quite often (I keep Luna bars and atkins shakes in armor bag and my dock safety equipment bag) and now my ability to maintain a high energy level for long periods of time seems to have disappeared.

I would love to hear a possible solution to this; I hate having no endurance any more.



Could be a bunch of reasons why you feel this way. Without knowing what your daily meals are like I can't really suggest anything.


I take it you are limiting your carbs, why?

Are you trying to lose weight, gain muscle, general health, maintain weight, cholesterol or blood pressure problem, control diabetes or another medical condition (celiac, crohns, ADHD, epilepsy) etc. ?


About how many carbs or what type of carbs do you eat?

How well does your body tolerate grains?

Are you eating/drinking foods containing lots of sugar? I dont eat luna bars anymore but before I began low carbing I used to eat the lemon luna bars and I would end up getting a hypoglycemic episode. I am not sure if there are low carb luna bars now or what. I do suggest eating real food when possible instead of shakes and bars. It might be that you are having a similar reaction of blood sugar swings.

It might be that you should eat more healthy low glycemic carbs.

I know that when I do heavy lifting at the gym I will eat a few more carbs and there are low carb plans like CKD (cyclical ketogenic diet) thats specifically for intense bodybuilding and they have weekly 36 hour refeeds. The rules of the refeeds are very specific, from what I recall I think its almost pure sugar. I mean fruit loops, skim milk and coke here lol.

I dont think its the healthiest thing to do at all, and those I know on it go through those horrible sugar withdrawls every week as your body switches back into fat burning mode from sugar burning.

There are also plans like TKD and NHE designed for heavy bodyduilding as well.

You can play around with why you might be feeling this way. If certain foods are causing you to feel this way etc. If I eat something higher in carbs I usually eat it with fat and protein to slow down the blood sugar spike.

The other day I ate a small peach by itself and my blood sugar went from 76 to 106 in about 15 minutes. I then began to feel really drowsy 2 hours later as my blood sugar was stabilizing. When I make a peach salsa and eat it with my chicken it will have virtually no effect on my blood sugar and I dont get any carb sleepyness or brain fog lol


Try and figure out why your body is reacting that way by examining what you eat, how you eat it and when you feel that way.

If you are exercising a lot you should be eating a decent amount of low GI/GL carbs to begin with.



Sinergy -> RE: Atkins diet (7/21/2004 9:55:39 AM)

Hello,

I used to say that I wanted to cut my being overweight, but all the dancing seems to have started to show my ab muscles again. I also like being strong. But my main goal is energy and endurance. I will buy more of the carbs recommended. My diet is primarily protein or vegetables (usually things like carrots, broccoli, peppers, etc) and I have to eat 4-6 times a day.

Things like wheat my body has difficulty digesting. Since I cut it out I find that I no longer have indigestion most of the time. Other forms of grains, refined sugar, etc., do the same thing.

Thank you for the insight. I will also look into the South Beach diet instead of the Atkins diet.


Sinergy



ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (7/21/2004 10:40:08 AM)

SBD and Atkins are virtually Identical in maintenance phases. Which in the end is really a find what works for you and stick to it. SBD encourages eating grains sooner than Atkins suggests it but in the end they are both saying eat healthy good carbs, fats and a moderate amount of quality sources of protein.

Agatston basically decided to do a low fat low carb thing for many who are fat phobic, then later on came out and said that saturated fat isnt as bad as he thought.

I have issues with both Atkins and SBD as I dont think either one of them as written are really optimal. One of my biggest issues with Atkins is the Atkins Nutritionals company that has nothing to do with Atkins as far as I am concerned and all of the Frankenfoods they keep coming out with. I understand they are trying to make money but the purpose of low carb living is to eat as much whole, natural minimally processed foods as possible. Its based on CHANGE. You change your eating habits and your lifestly to something better, not substitute high carb junk food for low carb junk food.

I think Atkins was correct in his 98 book where he insisted on avoiding all polyols. I dont think maltitol is something low carbers should really be eating, especially not daily. Once in a blue moon I can see, but some people seem to think that living on a diet of maltitol laden candy bars is low carb (obviously they have no read the book) but I still have issues with it. 99% of these products did not exist while Atkins was alive. Would he see the junk thats out here today I think he would be sickened by it personally since he was against most fake foods.

My issues with SBD

Mercola is a bit of a radical flake and I dont like his self promoting. I dont think all those reasons are really good as some specifically deal with allergens and dont apply to all people. He does make some interesting points. http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/9/south_beach.htm


It really is all about a trial and error process with what works for you and what doesnt.
Since you have a grain intolerance like me you might want to add more veggies to your diet. Leafy greens are great, string beans, pumpkin, squash and some more fruits like berries, apples and peaches eaten with fat and protein. Nuts and nut butters might also work well. I make a great zucchini walnut bread using walnut flour. Flax seed muffins or hot cereal made with flax meal and wheat bran might help you increase your carbs some.

My suggestion is try a new food, eat it daily for about 2 weeks without changing anything else in your diet and see how well you tolerate it. You might even know in less than 2 weeks if you cant tolerate it well. See if it triggers cravings, your moods, your energy levels, bloating etc. Listen to your body, its the only one you have.



proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (8/18/2004 2:10:39 PM)

I just need to tell you all that i stayed on my South Beach plan while on the cruise. It was much easier than i expected to resist all those fancy breads and desserts. They did have a sugarfree choice for dessert each night. I'm down 35lbs now and hubby is down 50!



Sinergy -> RE: Atkins diet (8/18/2004 8:54:23 PM)

Hello,

I was not truly Atkins by definition.

I limited my wheat and simple sugars. Indigestion went away.

I eat tons of vegetables and meats, but few starches.

Although tonight I put my awesome pasta sauce on Polenta (boiled corn meal) and it was fabulous.

Since I started adding more carbs to my diet my energy has increased, and I am still gaining muscle definition and losing belt loops.

Guess I am on the right track.

Sinergy



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/25/2004 8:58:15 AM)

your making a dietary error. The atkins diet does not condone eating a pound of bacon. It simply wants you to lower your carbs not cut them out completely. By doing this you force your body into Ketosis. The process of burning stored fat cells. The diet works if you follow it correctly. its also not a no excercise diet like most people claim. You are supposed to be doing excercise throughout the diet. I have been on this diet for 2 years now and lost 50 pounds and am now just balancing where I'm at. My breakfast isnt 6 eggs and a pound of bacon with cheese and gravy. and my dinners and lunches arent a pound of ground beef or a steak. For lunch today I had a grilled portobello mushroom with a tuna steak and a caesar salad. For dinner its a chicken breast smothered in onions and mushrooms topped with mozzarella cheese. #1 thing on the list for weight loss is switch to diet soda or get off it all together. If you actually knew how bad a coke was for your health you would think there should be a surgeon generals warning on the label.



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/25/2004 9:01:09 AM)

i personally like salads so long as you keep putting more than just lettuce and dressing in them. Try using crab meat, or some corned beef. Grill a green pepper and toss it in. keep the flavors comming.



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/25/2004 9:03:51 AM)

the type of sugar you are thinking of is sucrose. and its 0 carbs until its in your body then your metabolism converts it to fat. Just cut sweets altogether and follow the 10 and 2 theory 10 days on atkins and 2 days off.



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/25/2004 9:09:35 AM)

not too surprising I'm down 55 lbs. Ketosis usually is more productive in men. Women sad to say are more efficient at storing fat. Sorry.



proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (8/25/2004 9:40:45 PM)

quote:

I'm down 55 lbs.


Congratulations on your weight loss cheeba.



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/26/2004 5:24:58 AM)

Thanks. Although the discussion spurred some questions for me so while I did some research and found that Ketosis causis halitosis. I wondered why people stood back while I talked. Oh well lots of mints I guess.



proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (8/26/2004 8:39:34 AM)

quote:

Thanks. Although the discussion spurred some questions for me so while I did some research and found that Ketosis causis halitosis. I wondered why people stood back while I talked. Oh well lots of mints I guess.


On my south beach board there is long thread on "atkins breath". I think it can be avoided if you eat plenty of "good carbs", not many on south beach have that problem.



imalilcuteone -> RE: Atkins diet (8/26/2004 9:56:20 AM)

gross!
im on atkins as well.. I hope i don't have bad breath (yet)
i guess ill have to make sure i have plenty of mints or mint gum on me as well



ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (8/27/2004 8:30:47 PM)

Ketosis breath has nothing to do with the 'type' of carbs you eat. Atkins is also based on 'good' (low glycemic carbs) contrary to what some people seem to imply. It has to do with the amount of carbs that you eat. Your body is in a state where its primarily burning fat for energy, your body converts the fat into ketones which it then burns as energy and excretes via urine, sweat and breath. This explaines 'ketosis breath', If you eat more frequently and drink a lot of water this will dilute the urine and help with the breath. Keep in mind ketosis breath only occurs if your body is excreting a large amount of excess ketones. It is also very common within the first few weeks and then tends to fade more as your body adjusts to low carbing more.

Gum, mints, water and chewing on parsley all seem to help a lot.


quote:

the type of sugar you are thinking of is sucrose. and its 0 carbs until its in your body then your metabolism converts it to fat. Just cut sweets altogether and follow the 10 and 2 theory 10 days on atkins and 2 days off.


I could not find the original post you were refering to with that post but sucrose is common table sugar (table sugar is made of glucose and fructose but I am not trying to be technical here) pure sugars are pure carbs. 1 tsp of sugar has close to 5 carbs (I think its 4.82 or something like that) Its usually rounded down to 4 on the package.

Sugar will not turn into fat right away, but will first try to be used as energy. Sugar can be burned very quickly, but insulin sensitivity will also determine how quickly it will get stored as fat or not.

10 days on 2 days off may very likely cause you to have carb withdrawls over and over again every time you go off and on as well as throw your metabolism. I wouldnt really suggest something that drastic as opposed to just overall reducing your carb intake to a level that is suitable for you and experiment with it based on what your goals are.


ModOne



cheeba0228 -> RE: Atkins diet (8/28/2004 8:06:58 AM)

I tried reducing the ovwer all carbs, but temptation got the better of me and following the 10 and 2 theory works really well for me and weight loss did not differ between the 10 and 2 and the constant cutback. So I can make due with the 10 and 2. Its not for everyone but if it works for you then go for it I say.

As for the post regarding sugars it came from another that said there were certain types of sweeteners that killed the Atkins Diet. I was mentioning that sucros in any sweetener I believe would kill it. Like sweet n low lists sucrose as a primary ingredient.



ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (8/28/2004 11:17:15 AM)

huh?

Sucrose is sugar.

Pretty much anything that ends in ose is a type of sugar.

Sucrose, dextrose, fructose, maltose, glucose, galactose, sorbose, xylose, mannitose etc.

Really really really simply... Sugars can be monosaccharides, disaccharides and polysaccharides.
A hexose is a monosaccharide with 6 carbon atoms. The 3 basic are glucose and galactose (which are aldohexoses [having an aldehyde group on one end]) and fructose (which is a ketohexose [having a keto group on one end])

Sucrose would be an example of a disaccharide because each molecule consists of 2 monosaccharides (glucose and fructose)

Sucrose is not in sweet and low. Saccharin is about 300 times as sweet as sugar but can have a bitter and metallic taste. It's not digested by the body and will go right through your system so in theory it shouldn’t affect blood insulin levels. There are people who believe it may cause an insulin spike simply due to it having a sweet taste, especially in those who have a sugar addiction but I won’t get into that now.

Now what happens is when sweet and low markets their product (saccharin is also used in American sugar twin and brown sugar twin)

They have a bulk granular version that they try to make easily useable for cooking, a packet version which you see all over the place (the little pink packets) which are easy to use and portable and a liquid version. They also have the pure saccharin but I don’t think they sell that to regular consumers.

The granular and packet versions use bulking agents like maltodextrin or in the case of sweet and low I think its dextrose so you can easily measure it, otherwise there would be a microscopic amount since its so much sweeter than sugar.

Dextrose (d-glucose) isn’t being used to sweeten since it’s only half as sweet as sugar (sucrose) its used for easy manageability. The liquid version of sweet and low uses water and saccharin instead of dextrose which eliminates the starchy bulkers.

I was never able to understand why they cant use something like inulin (fiber) for a bulking agent but then that would actually make sense and these companies never seem to favor the logical approach lol.


Now, there is also sucraLOSE which is splenda. Sucralose is basiclly chlorinated sugar. Same problem with the bulking agents except in this case to get a liquid version of splenda you have to jump through hoops. I hope you aren’t confusing sucrose with sucralose.


The problem with Atkins sweetners are with the hexols aka Sugar Alcohols.

I can write for hours on sugar alcohols (and sugars for that matter lol) so I will try and be as brief and blunt as I can without boring you with too much detail.

Sugar alcohols were believed to not cause a significant rise in blood sugar so they were safe. That’s not really true. Fructose also doesn’t cause a rise in blood sugar and fructose is horrible for you, but I wont get into the dangers of fructose now.

Just like things that end with ose tend to be sugars, things that end with ol are often sugar alcohols. Maltitol, sorbitol, xylitol, mannitol, erythritol etc.

Not all sugar alcohols are created equally. Maltitol for example is a corn derivative. Its very similar to corn syrup which is one of the reasons all these companies are jumping on the Sugar Free Candy Bandwagon. Where they used sugar and corn syrup they can now use maltitol and not get new equipment. It’s very similar in texture and flavor. Any machine that can use corn syrup can use maltitol instead very easily. Maltitol is very high on the glycemic index since it is a corn derivative. I think it may even be higher than table sugar though I am not too sure of that, I would have to look that one up. Either way, maltitol may not cause an instant blood sugar spike like regular sugar, but it is still partially absorbed. Between 50-75% of the maltitol is absorbed as sugar in your body. Its over time, but its still absorbed. When someone is eating a low carb candy bar for example and it lists 20g of sugar alcohols from maltitol you are getting between 10-15g of carbs.

Many seem to feel that these are free foods and 0 carbs when they are not. Aside from junk food being junk food, there are a lot of people who are still ingesting a good amount of sugar from these candies and not realizing it. For people who have these candies once in a rare while, there are worse things you can do, but for those who eat them daily and think they are being 'healthy' they should really read up on sugar alcohols.

Now, there are some sugar alcohols that are almost entirely undigested. Erythritol is the best example of that. It has a glycemic index value of 0 and is totally unabsorbed by your system.

Why dont more companies use erythritol instead of maltitol? Cost for one. Grains are cheap, corn is the cheapest grain and our country has tons of it. Also the cost of new equipment needed to use erythritol over using the equipment that already exists with maltitol. Taste, maltitol tastes better and has a better texture. Maltiol can be used in a granular or syrup form, erythritol last I checked was only available in a granular form. Also erythritol is still pretty new on the market whereas maltitol has been around forever.

Erythritol is slowly becoming more popular but maltitol is still the most common one. I pretty much avoid most things with maltitol and if I have something with a small amount of maltitol I would count at least half of the sugar alcohols as carbs. I will have something with erythritol slightly more frequently, but even then it isnt too often as my sweet tooth has just about vanished since low carbing.

The main reason a lot of these candy manufacturers will use a sugar alcohol over something like splenda is texture. Splenda is very very sweet but has no bulk (unless you add maltodextrin which is what they do for the measurable granular form of splenda which companies dont use) sugar alcohols have lots of bulk and less sweetness. Often when you see something that claims to be sweetened with splenda if you read the ingredients they also often have sugar alcohols.

Now that Ive successfully managed to bore everyone with my sugar alcohol rant I think I'll step away from the computer lol. Sorry, I sometimes get a bit carried away.



proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (8/28/2004 11:57:15 AM)

quote:

Sugar Alcohols.


ModeratorOne, thank you for the explanation of sugar alcohols. Thre is a lot of discussion of them on my South Beach board, do you mind if I copy and paste what you wrote and post it there?



ModeratorOne -> RE: Atkins diet (8/28/2004 12:26:07 PM)

c&p all you want. If you want to know more about SAs just ask lol I can go on for weeks about them lol.

Here is a good link that discusses them in a bit of detail that you may want to post to your board unless it's already been posted http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm.



proudsub -> RE: Atkins diet (8/28/2004 8:27:44 PM)

quote:

Here is a good link that discusses them in a bit of detail that you may want to post to your board unless it's already been posted http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm.


Thank you. I'm pretty sure that has been posted before but I will check it out.



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