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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 4:59:10 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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This is a well hashed out topic, I'm sure there are numerous threads on the subject. On this board at least, there are very few who view s-types in this very limited way.

BTW: There is a huge difference between a person with submissive personality traits and a person who has chosen to submit to another.

Oh and, welcome to the discussion side of CM, hisfungrl. And thank you for jumping into the fray with your own thread, however cliche.









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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 6:12:25 AM   
sincelo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl

Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&@% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not. Being submissive doesn't mean you are a doormat, or you are spineless. In fact, some of my "subbie" friends are as fiesty as any i know. i think it's sometimes a misconception when new to the lifestyle, especially for new and un-owned subs...and even more so when confronted with a a Dom/me.

Learning to say "no" and even "back off" are two of the things i try to impart to newer members of our community. Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...it's a totally different story for every dominant out there to expect you to "take it lying down" so to speak (pardon the pun)...

This does not mean being a "bratty" sub is something i subscribe to...i find it disrespectful and attention seeking.

Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...


I have been a doormat in the past and i likely will again.
I am a brat and make people laugh and people find me really quite endearing as well. People would not call me disrespectful.
So if i were new to your chatroom you would tell me i was doing it all wrong? I find people who feel the need to preach to others how to live their lives annoying but hey i would keep it to myself.

< Message edited by sincelo -- 5/11/2012 6:13:25 AM >


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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:00:44 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...


each D/s, M/s etc relationship has it's own dynamic, that's the beauty of this lifestyle as You said, different strokes for different folks...like i said before, WANTING to be a doormat is something different entirely than being expected to be one simply due to a title or word used to describe ones orientation. The title says 'submission does not equal doormat"...it doesn't, if a sub or slave desires or chooses to be one that is the business of their Dom/Master and themselves, something i support completely with respect to thier decisions, but the term submission doesn't magically mean every sub will be one. My statement is in no way meant as a judgement to anyone, who chooses a path different than my own. I've seen too many newcomers get taken advantage of because they are eager to please and don't understand that communicating a "no" is ok...

yes i give newcomers information on different approaches to the lifestyle and encourage them to read and seek out thier own likes and dislikes, needs etc to find their place and what works for them.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:03:30 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sincelo

So if i were new to your chatroom you would tell me i was doing it all wrong? I find people who feel the need to preach to others how to live their lives annoying but hey i would keep it to myself.


Not in the least...as i stated quite clearly its something i do not subscribe to...


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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:04:44 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...

My thoughts? My thought is that you are a very poorly behaved woman and I'm really, really glad you are not mine because I'd be embarrased by your behavior. My thought is that whirling into new places guns ablazing with rants and admonitions for a bunch of folks you don't know is just plain bizarre.

Overall, I think I prefer my doormat.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:09:48 AM   
sincelo


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If that were in reference to my own relationship .. yes i am a brat within it. That is part of who i am. Why would i change who i am? I am also that way with my friends and at times complete strangers.
Yes there are men who take advantage of the noobs. There are several noobs who stop using their head as well. That is what i would tell them is to not forget everything they have learned in live until now. I do find this less salient in my local community than i did online though there are people there that preach the need to protect the submissive from big bad doms. We are all just people.

Telling noobs to read is a good idea. Telling them to not do this and that is rude imo unless you are a dominant?

I didn't get enough sleep and this may have come out harsher than it was intended. I believe people need to make their own errors in life

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:33:16 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...

My thoughts? My thought is that you are a very poorly behaved woman and I'm really, really glad you are not mine because I'd be embarrased by your behavior. My thought is that whirling into new places guns ablazing with rants and admonitions for a bunch of folks you don't know is just plain bizarre.

Overall, I think I prefer my doormat.



it's called a forum...for people to post thoughts, opinions, conversations starters etc! Guns blazing?! lol, hardly and how exactly does one break the crust into a forum of a "bunch of folks you don't know", by posting "lols' and "i agrees"?

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:38:20 AM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
it's called a forum...for people to post thoughts, opinions, conversations starters etc! Guns blazing?! lol, hardly and how exactly does one break the crust into a forum of a "bunch of folks you don't know", by posting "lols' and "i agrees"?

I'd say you can "break the crust" in any way you want. You have chosen to do it by dragging out a soapbox and preaching to everyone in a condescending tone. As you note, this is an internet forum and the only rules are those made by the mods. So hey, go you!


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Hisfungrl)
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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:38:46 AM   
kalikshama


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I've been told I "wasn't very submissive" after (diplomatically) informing a potential Dom that I was serious about the limits I'd established initially. We never met.

I've also been told I'd have better luck if I "dumbed it down."

Judging from some of the OPs we get from new female subs here, this is a valuable PSA:

quote:

Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&****% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not. Being submissive doesn't mean you are a doormat, or you are spineless. In fact, some of my "subbie" friends are as fiesty as any i know. i think it's sometimes a misconception when new to the lifestyle, especially for new and un-owned subs...and even more so when confronted with a a Dom/me.

Learning to say "no" and even "back off" are two of the things i try to impart to newer members of our community. Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...it's a totally different story for every dominant out there to expect you to "take it lying down" so to speak (pardon the pun)...


Just because the veteran posters here find it old hat doesn't mean it won't benefit the lurkers.

(in reply to Hisfungrl)
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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:45:41 AM   
RemoteUser


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As long as I have a place to wipe my boots, I don't care.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:47:03 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I've been told I "wasn't very submissive" after (diplomatically) informing a potential Dom that I was serious about the limits I'd established initially. We never met.

I've also been told I'd have better luck if I "dumbed it down."

Judging from some of the OPs we get from new female subs here, this is a valuable PSA:


Just because the veteran posters here find it old hat doesn't mean it won't benefit the lurkers.




thanks!

i too have run into having to calmly restate my limits and being told i was being "disobedient" in doing so...i agree with sincelo that new subs should be reminded not to forget the things they have learned in life.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:48:54 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

As long as I have a place to wipe my boots, I don't care.


Lol!

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:52:28 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
i too have run into having to calmly restate my limits and being told i was being "disobedient" in doing so..

*chuckles* Well, I suppose you were. The obvious question in my mind though is why would any sort of obedience be expected by a prospective dom? There is, of course, some camp of doms who think that checking a check box on a web site means something. There are others that think pulling on some black leather slacks is relevant. I suspect that there are appropriate matches for both those two camps and you (wisely) are not.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Hisfungrl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 7:59:06 AM   
Hisfungrl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl
i too have run into having to calmly restate my limits and being told i was being "disobedient" in doing so..

*chuckles* Well, I suppose you were. The obvious question in my mind though is why would any sort of obedience be expected by a prospective dom? There is, of course, some camp of doms who think that checking a check box on a web site means something. There are others that think pulling on some black leather slacks is relevant. I suspect that there are appropriate matches for both those two camps and you (wisely) are not.



*grins*
i didn't say it was a "prospective" Dom ;)...and definitely not STILL my Dom :)

100% agreed on the two camps

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 8:09:54 AM   
DesFIP


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Years ago on another site, there was a woman who said she aimed for doormat, hoping to land short at slave. But being a doormat for one is not the same as being it for all. And really, does this need to be said?

As far as the op announcing that all brats are disrespectful, my response is nonsense. He enjoys me bratting and doesn't find it disrespectful in the least.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 11:44:34 AM   
TNDommeK


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Thus the reason why I prefer slaves instead of submissives.

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Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell


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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 12:52:00 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl

Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&@% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not. Being submissive doesn't mean you are a doormat, or you are spineless. In fact, some of my "subbie" friends are as fiesty as any i know. i think it's sometimes a misconception when new to the lifestyle, especially for new and un-owned subs...and even more so when confronted with a a Dom/me.

Learning to say "no" and even "back off" are two of the things i try to impart to newer members of our community. Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...it's a totally different story for every dominant out there to expect you to "take it lying down" so to speak (pardon the pun)...

This does not mean being a "bratty" sub is something i subscribe to...i find it disrespectful and attention seeking.

Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...


It's sort of like that first day on the job. You're the 'new' guy, not sure of who anyone is, what the heirarchy is.. who has the real power (btw: the real power in the office ALWAYS belongs to the guy who orders the office supplies.. ) Let's face it.. the janitor can hand you a stack of papers and tell you to go file them and you're not going to know the difference between him and the CEO so what do you do? First day on the job, you go file. When you find out it was just the janitor, you get mad, maybe a little embarrased, but you don't, generally, fall for it the second time.

The only thing you are sure of as a new submissive, one who is just falling into the BDSM vats, is that you are, mostly definitely, not the one in charge in this new realm. It's pretty natural to conclude that if you are starting off exploring the 's' side, the 'd' side is the one that's going to say jump so, at first, any 'd' type will do. To the new 's', 'd's' are quite fungible in the beginning because you don't know what you don't know. It's actually more an insult to the 'd' if you think about it.. the fleshy conduit to bring a fantasy to life. Personality's stay away, other interests need not apply. I mean, if someone is willing to jump for just anyone.. that sort of says a little something about them as well.

Overall, though, unless you are already in a relationship with your potential d (whole different kettle of fish when you are taking an established relationship somewhere else) I don't think that jumping when The Authority speaks for the first time is irrational.

Generally getting burned by a match or two straightens that shit out lickity split and the new 's' becomes the wise 's' in fairly short order. I don't worry unduly about new s types. I figure one of two things will happen.. they will run screaming or, eventually, find their bliss even if they don't find their mate for a good long while or at all. Those who stay and manage to find their toes pointed in a particular BDSM or D/s direction take many forms with many names and there is usually an 'odd' out there for everyone's 'ball' and don't those two things fit together in lovely fashion!

Newbies (any gender, any orientation) are going to live and learn in spite of our gallant efforts to teach. For those who can learn by 'listening', a forum post may help, so I'm cool with it. For those who learn from experience.. eh, probably won't help as much.. they'll need one of those matchsticks. On a very, very rare occasion, things work out exactly right the first time and no lesson needs to be learned other than nothing is as underrated as plain ol' dumb luck.





_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 11:04:56 PM   
Kana


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But, but, submissives are so good for wiping your feet on!

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HST

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/12/2012 2:53:10 AM   
Endivius


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I have them lick mine clean, why should i have to do any of the work...

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/12/2012 3:32:25 AM   
Englishcrumpet


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when i started out, a while ago now i fell into the trap the OP is talking about. it was all tied into needing to prove i was sub, not just to them but to me and so i lay on the floor and let them walk all over me.

i think a whole big part of the confusion at the begining is whilst the same rules of engagement apply, time and again you read posts where perfectly sane adults, im assuming, whove been in relationships before, seem incapable of applying those 'rules' to these relationships.

also very often play becomes the greater driver and the relationship build is all scaffold and no foundation.

because, i think personally and speaking from past experience, the whole thing of needing to prove youreself, prove youre submissive puts people into this inividious position where they find it almost impossible to be themselves completely and flop into some sort of submissive to submission, bypassing the entire point that submission isnt all about play and 'roles' for alot of people. 

to be controlled and owned means to be obedient and if that means we are 'doormats' in the mainstream vernacular then so be it, but ive never much felt the term belonged here.

but i do agree, i think that there is confusion and for alot of people its a journey of self discovery and self esteem and a whole bunch of other things that finally teaches us that we are not the sum of our submission.

i also think that many a newbie gets bombarded by the wannable brigade who will do their utmost to push them on their knees long before they ever meet because in that 'weakened' position theyre likely more amenable and easier to manipulate.

realising that who you are is more important than what you are, is the turning point.

IMO, obviously

(in reply to Endivius)
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