Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 5:54:58 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Good people exist, with or without religious faith:)
Thank goodness

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 10:54:22 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Maybe you can expand a bit on said "War on Family Planning"?!!


With comprehensive family planning services, women don't need men to "take care of them".



What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!!



Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion.




Aren't all of these available?!!  Yes.  So where's the alleged "war"?!!



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 11:15:34 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		 
Your waiter will be along shortly with the cheese to go with that whine.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 1:39:45 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


And Atheist assholes assume there is no "soul" -- I challenge you to prove this. 





Is it your contention that all athiest are assholes?

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 2:20:50 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

The question is, at what point between conception and birth does this new and unique human life require consideration in its own right.

When the issue is posed in the terms you have chosen (which seem a reasonable enough formulation to me), an answer that suggests itself is: "when the foetus is capable or potentially capable of surviving in its own right" ie when the foetus is viable. What do you think?

That's the problem, of course. We don't know. One purely pragmatic defense of the conception argument is that it is better to err on the safe side in such matters. Personally, I am unable to say at what point consideration of this new life in its own right becomes required. Viability is a reasonable proposal. But I think the greater concern is at what point the sentience of the foetus is sufficient to require consideration in its own right. That may occur before full physical viability, itself a smeary line, or not until after. I don't know. I will be content with a decision that errs on the safe side of our best knowledge and understanding.

K.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 2:34:01 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 3:50:32 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.


IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness. It includes the ability to suffer. Just because you can't test a late term fetus for awareness of suffering doesn't mean it is incapable of suffering. What is the difference if you probe a newly born child harshly and do the same to a late term fetus? Both will react, no? The difference is you can hear the reaction of one and not the other. Speaks more to the inadequacy of the test than to the sentience of the fetus and child. Is there any biolgical basis for the "legal existence begins at birth" or is it just a judicial convenience?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/20/2012 4:55:51 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.

Supported is the wrong term. The word you want in that sentence is "arbitrary."

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 4:34:27 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.


IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness.


It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 5:30:03 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.


IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness.


It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?


Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 12:14:48 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
YOU were MOCKING another's beliefs on LIFE


Some ideas are really dumb. Just because a person is opening their mouth doesn't mean that an idea worthy of respect is coming out.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 12:16:42 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Lucy, I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 12:17:55 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twenty9male
I understand your point i just think it's morally bankrupt.

Your whinging as if to say they only cared about the featus, perhaps you should have card about it a bit more and they wouldn't have had to.


"Morally bankrupt" holy fuck take a look in the mirror at the feces coming out of your mouth.

Welcome to my blocked list.


(in reply to Twenty9male)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 1:59:00 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Some ideas are really dumb.



And often originating from your side of the theological/political fence.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 2:11:56 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		I think you are all blasphemers and should be punished.

. . . my house Friday around 7pm ok by you?

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 2:17:20 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I think you are all blasphemers and should be punished.

. . . my house Friday around 7pm ok by you?



You never miss an opportunity for some THWACKING, do you?!!  LOL!!!



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 4:57:51 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.


IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness.


It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?


Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights.


And what's your experimental protocol for testing that in-utero?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 5:03:33 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!!



Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion.




Aren't all of these available?!!  Yes.  So where's the alleged "war"?!!



As of this point in time, they're available. There are those on the Far Right who would happily change that.

They are trying as we speak.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 5/21/2012 5:05:05 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 278
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 5:06:18 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, you can't test for self-awareness until after birth, so our "Legal existence begins at birth" stance is again supported.


IDK . . . your formulation seems too simplistic for me. Sentience is not only self-awareness.


It is in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?


Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive or be conscious, or to have subjective experiences. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences (described by some thinkers as "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights.


And what's your experimental protocol for testing that in-utero?


You are avoiding the definition I have shown, which conflicts with your formulation. So, is "Life begins at birth" a biological premise or a legal convenience? What is the basis for your formulation for the start of life?
Simple question for you.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 5/21/2012 5:07:51 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception ... - 5/21/2012 11:20:28 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

What SPECIFIC "comprehensive family planning services" are you referring to -- I'm still not clear on what you're referring to?!!



Pick one. Birth Control. Morning-After Pill. Abortion.




Aren't all of these available?!!  Yes.  So where's the alleged "war"?!!



As of this point in time, they're available. There are those on the Far Right who would happily change that. They are trying as we speak.



Goodness... "as we speak", no less?!!  Actually, the FACT is, the Left dusts-off and drags-out this nonsense every election year, and yet... NOTHING ever happens -- just more political scare-tactics and feigned hysteria.  Of course, if you have some PROOF of PENDING LEGISLATION that would render birth control, the morning-after pill, and abortion ILLEGAL, by all means... do share this urgent information?!!  Enquiring Minds Want to Know!!!

The simple fact is... with WOMEN comprising HALF of the voting electorate, abortion will NEVER be made illegal -- ever!!!  That would be political suicide... and those on the Right who spout-off about overturning Roe vs. Wade are PANDERING.


_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 280
Page:   <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Life does not begin at Fertilization or conception - says the Holy Bible Page: <<   < prev  12 13 [14] 15 16   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094