RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (Full Version)

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Iamsemisweet -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 12:10:40 PM)

Speaking of harm, there is this:
Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally? A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.
Link to the full story:  http://factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-credits-for-illegal-immigrants/




Mupainurpleasure -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 12:57:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Speaking of harm, there is this:
Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally? A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.
Link to the full story:  http://factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-credits-for-illegal-immigrants/


The Irs just needs to do it's freaking job and demand the dicumentation they are supposed to supply




Mupainurpleasure -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:02:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure

I'd love to hear your fix for the problem.



No, actually... I doubt YOU would -- as all the Left EVER does is spit blather and bile, playing THE RACE CARD when they have NO FACTS, NO SOLUTIONS, and have lost the debate.

The solution is SIMPLE:

1)  SEAL THE BORDER -- using technology, fencing, and the National Guard.

2)  A $10,000 fine PER EMPLOYEE for ANY employer hiring illegals;  MANDATORY Proof-of-Citizenship for ALL students at ALL schools.

3)  After 1-2 above are accomplished, institute a Guest Worker/Guest Visa program, and let AmEx for Visa/Mastercard manage it.

4)  Review/Streamline the immigration process for those who wish to become LEGAL U.S. citizens.

5)  For those that are already here illegally:

(a)  Calculated fine/back tax for each year they've been here illegally (paid in monthly installments).

(b)  Apply for a Guest Worker Card/Work Visa/Student Visa and/or citizenship just like everyone else -- to the back of the line.

(c)  Special consideration for those that have been here 25+ years, and are in good community standing, to be able to "fast track" citizenship -- which does NOT extend to other family members here illegally.  Those born in this country (via an illegal immigrant parent), and which are over a certain age (10+ years old, possibly) must ALSO apply for a Student Visa/Citizenship, but may also be "fast tracked", as they are here through no fault of their own.


*Note:  I'm sure the above will not be good enough for the Left, and will be viewed as both "racist" and "heartless" -- as THEIR only solution is to leave the borders open, and grant instant citizenship to ANYONE who comes here illegally.



Pretty liberal actually. The right will never fine the businesses and imo till that happens nothing will change. If there are no jobs they dont come. You basically are for an manesty program with penalties whhich I agree with 100 percent. When we doid mass repatriation in the 30s it backfired and we got stuck paying wlefare for all the american kids left behind. It is also worth noting this is a recent developement. In my lifetime they could just come and go as they pleased. We changed the laws in 65. Maybe part of the issue is it's so hard to come they never go?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:05:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure

You basically are for an manesty program with penalties....



No, I'm not.





thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:18:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mupainurpleasure

I'd love to hear your fix for the problem.



No, actually... I doubt YOU would -- as all the Left EVER does is spit blather and bile, playing THE RACE CARD when they have NO FACTS, NO SOLUTIONS, and have lost the debate.

The solution is SIMPLE:

1)  SEAL THE BORDER -- using technology, fencing, and the National Guard.

2)  A $10,000 fine PER EMPLOYEE for ANY employer hiring illegals;  MANDATORY Proof-of-Citizenship for ALL students at ALL schools.

3)  After 1-2 above are accomplished, institute a Guest Worker/Guest Visa program, and let AmEx for Visa/Mastercard manage it.

4)  Review/Streamline the immigration process for those who wish to become LEGAL U.S. citizens.

5)  For those that are already here illegally:

(a)  Calculated fine/back tax for each year they've been here illegally (paid in monthly installments).

(b)  Apply for a Guest Worker Card/Work Visa/Student Visa and/or citizenship just like everyone else -- to the back of the line.

(c)  Special consideration for those that have been here 25+ years, and are in good community standing, to be able to "fast track" citizenship -- which does NOT extend to other family members here illegally.  Those born in this country (via an illegal immigrant parent), and which are over a certain age (10+ years old, possibly) must ALSO apply for a Student Visa/Citizenship, but may also be "fast tracked", as they are here through no fault of their own.


*Note:  I'm sure the above will not be good enough for the Left, and will be viewed as both "racist" and "heartless" -- as THEIR only solution is to leave the borders open, and grant instant citizenship to ANYONE who comes here illegally.




To those non-bigots with a three digit iq and a pulse
It works like this.
Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdomeanor.
Hiring someone who has crossed the boarder illegally is a federal felony punishable by 5 years in the federal slam(no parole from federal custody...a day showing is a day owing...no time off for good behavior) and $250,000 fine for each violaton. When several thousand ceo are doing 100+ years in the federal slam and the fed treasury is trillions of dollars richer (estimated 12 million who have crossed the boarder illegally X $250,000=3,000,000,000,000)who would hire someone who had crossed he boarder illegally?
The above can be accomplished with no cost to the taxpayer and positive cashflow to the treasury. The only reason anyone could have to waste taxpayers money chasing down those brown people you seem to hate so much would be bigotry.
Simply stated since there would be no work here they would go home as has been evidenced by recent developments(more mexicans crossing the boarder south than north.




DomKen -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:21:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Do you really believe space is the issue? Little simplistic, wouldn't you say?

You advanced the argument and I debunked it. If anything I was excessively gentle.




thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:25:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
the first thing to show you're not bigoted is to establish what "harm" immigrants are doing. A good grounding in the history of immigration in this country would be helpful in not bringing up the same nonsensical complaints as were made against previous "undesirable" groups.

Then an acknowledgement that it is inevitable and unavoidable that people will seek a better life and the only way to curb undocumented immigration is by vigorously pursuing those who employ them not by harassing poor people seeking a better life for their children.


Direct Harm:
Direct harm illegal immigrants are doing to legal tax-paying citizens of Maryland. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates the illegal alien population in Maryland to be 300,000. The direct cost to Maryland taxpayers forced to support the illegal population include education, health and incarceration. The documented cost of educating from kindergarten to 12th grade the 80,300 children of illegal aliens is more than $966 million annually, according to the July 2010 report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform. An additional $250 million is spent providing special English instruction to an estimated 35,000 children of illegal aliens. The total cost for educating the children of illegals is more than $1.2 billion a year. Health care for illegals in Maryland costs $167 million a year and incarceration of illegal alien criminals costs $29 million.

Indirect harm:
The illegal alien invasion of Maryland has resulted in a corresponding increase in violent crimes, criminal gang activity, threats to public health, and jobs taken from legal American citizens. This indirect harn, though incalculable, is no doubt substantial.

Maryland has an estimated budget deficit of more than $1 billion, but would have a surplus were it not for the costs of supporting the illegal alien population.

It is indeed inevitable and unavoidable that people will seek a better life but the first thing to show your veracity is to stop calling them undocumented and call them what they are...ILLEGAL.


I am sure you are aware that it is the employer's responsibility to deduct taxes from their employees pay. That those revenues are not remitted to the fed seems to call the employer to task for fraud and grand theft from the federal govt. This would be a felony.
Unless they live under a bridge they are paying rent or mortgage thus they pay property tax. Whenever they buy anything they would pay sales tax.
So you see they pay all the taxes you pay but recieve few of the benifits due to taxpayers. Rather than being a harm they are putting into the general fund withoug being compensated.



Then an acknowledgement that the best way to curb ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is to secure our borders, immediately return illegal border crossers back across the border, outlaw sanctuary jurisidictions and organizations like CASA de Maryland, La Raza, et al which aid and abet illegal immigrants in large part with legal citizens' tax-dollars, virgorously persue and deport ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and their children who "game the system" to get more benefits from all levels of government than the average legal American Senior Citizen or Military Veteran and, lastly, close down those who employ ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.


To those non-bigots with a three digit iq and a pulse
It works like this.
Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdomeanor.
Hiring someone who has crossed the boarder illegally is a federal felony punishable by 5 years in the federal slam(no parole from federal custody...a day showing is a day owing...no time off for good behavior) and $250,000 fine for each violaton. When several thousand ceo are doing 100+ years in the federal slam and the fed treasury is trillions of dollars richer (estimated 12 million who have crossed the boarder illegally X $250,000=3,000,000,000,000)who would hire someone who had crossed he boarder illegally?
The above can be accomplished with no cost to the taxpayer and positive cashflow to the treasury. The only reason anyone could have to waste taxpayers money chasing down those brown people you seem to hate so much would be bigotry.
Simply stated since there would be no work here they would go home as has been evidenced by recent developments(more mexicans crossing the boarder south than north.





thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:31:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Speaking of harm, there is this:
Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally? A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.
Link to the full story:  http://factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-credits-for-illegal-immigrants/



Do I understand you correctly. A person earns money has their taxes deducted and the amount that they overpaid their taxes is returned to them. You seek to deny to a worker the money they earned by their labor. That is called slavery and is against the law in my country. That the person was illegally in the country has nothing to do with you seeking to steal the money they earned with their labor.




DomKen -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:36:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
1)  SEAL THE BORDER -- using technology, fencing, and the National Guard.

The mainland US has 12000+ miles of land and coastal borders. Alaska and Hawai'i adds another 8000 miles of coast and land border to that for a total in excess of 20,000 miles of border that would have to be sealed.

A simple wall would not work so you're talking about active and passive scanners and border agents monitoring the sensors and responding to every breach no matter how minor. Can you even begin to grasp the setup and ongoing costs of that? How exactly do we stay free with a tens of millions strong border patrol in our midst?




thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:38:17 PM)



  Those born in this country (via an illegal immigrant parent), and which are over a certain age When we doid mass repatriation in the 30s it backfired and we got stuck paying wlefare for all the american kids left behind.
[/quote]

Your facts are wrong. California deported more than one million american citizens of latino background in the thirties. Their private property was confiscated. When ww2 started the u.s. sent draft notices to all of those deportees who would have been draft elligible. Exactly 100% of those so notified returned to the u.s. and entered he military.




thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:46:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It seems that putting their employers in jail would be a rough break for the 11 million or so illegals who are already here.  So, I guess those of you who are advocating this aren't really interested in helping people find "a better life for their children'?  But you ease your guilt by saying that at least you aren't chasing people down to deport them or sealing the borders.  Seems like hypocrisy to me, but whatever.  


The hipocracy is all yours.
You want them out.
You don't want the felons who employ them punished as the law demands.
You want to spend copious quantities of taxpayer money to catch,incarcerate and deport illegals.
Now your post is crying crocadile tears for them being denied employment.
Your bigotry is plane for all to see.




tj444 -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Your facts are wrong. California deported more than one million american citizens of latino background in the thirties. Their private property was confiscated. When ww2 started the u.s. sent draft notices to all of those deportees who would have been draft elligible. Exactly 100% of those so notified returned to the u.s. and entered he military.


That is quite the history,.. I am guessing they never were compensated for the property stolen from them? And so after WW2, were they kicked right back out again??




thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 1:50:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Your facts are wrong. California deported more than one million american citizens of latino background in the thirties. Their private property was confiscated. When ww2 started the u.s. sent draft notices to all of those deportees who would have been draft elligible. Exactly 100% of those so notified returned to the u.s. and entered he military.


That is quite the history,.. I am guessing they never were compensated for the property stolen from them? And so after WW2, were they kicked right back out again??


If your interest is genuine then you can find all of the particulars you seek on line.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:09:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Can you even begin to grasp the setup and ongoing costs of that?



If it costs less than $113 billion, then it's a bargain...

See:  http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921





mnottertail -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:12:27 PM)

Can't use the national guard.   You'd have to go to scotus and have them torture the law first.





Iamsemisweet -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:13:06 PM)

Since you obviously didn't read the link, why even pretend to discuss it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Speaking of harm, there is this:
Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally? A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.
Link to the full story:  http://factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-credits-for-illegal-immigrants/



Do I understand you correctly. A person earns money has their taxes deducted and the amount that they overpaid their taxes is returned to them. You seek to deny to a worker the money they earned by their labor. That is called slavery and is against the law in my country. That the person was illegally in the country has nothing to do with you seeking to steal the money they earned with their labor.





thompsonx -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:16:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Can you even begin to grasp the setup and ongoing costs of that?



If it costs less than $113 billion, then it's a bargain...

See:  http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921





To those non-bigots with a three digit iq and a pulse
It works like this.
Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdomeanor.
Hiring someone who has crossed the boarder illegally is a federal felony punishable by 5 years in the federal slam(no parole from federal custody...a day showing is a day owing...no time off for good behavior) and $250,000 fine for each violaton. When several thousand ceo are doing 100+ years in the federal slam and the fed treasury is trillions of dollars richer (estimated 12 million who have crossed the boarder illegally X $250,000=3,000,000,000,000)who would hire someone who had crossed he boarder illegally?
The above can be accomplished with no cost to the taxpayer and positive cashflow to the treasury. The only reason anyone could have to waste taxpayers money chasing down those brown people you seem to hate so much would be bigotry.
Simply stated since there would be no work here they would go home as has been evidenced by recent developments(more mexicans crossing the boarder south than north.






DomKen -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:19:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Can you even begin to grasp the setup and ongoing costs of that?



If it costs less than $113 billion, then it's a bargain...

See:  http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/USCostStudy_2010.pdf?docID=4921



Don't use white supremacist groups for data, it just confirms bigotry.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/winter/the-teflon-nativists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU886SGkF7g




mnottertail -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:19:16 PM)

You havent counted in CEO bonuses and parachutes they wont be getting .............. actually going to the economy........pretty sloppy stuff huntie, I know you can add.


Toyotomi Hideyoshi 




erieangel -> RE: Not supporting UNBRIDLED illegal immigration does not make you a bigot! (5/11/2012 2:22:09 PM)

Personally, I don't think illegal immigration is unbridled. I think a lot of the illegal immigrants in this country actually come here legally, i.e., student visa, etc., and stay past their visa time become illegal and those are actually the people who slip through cracks the most.

I don't agree with splitting up families. Or sending kids who may or may not have been born in this country to another country where they don't even know the language.

And then there is the story of the 15 year old run Texas run away who was deported to Colombia; then there are Mark Lyttle and Pedro Guzmen, both "mentally disabled" men who at separate times were arrested in different parts of the country, coerced into signing false statements that allowed for their deportations and dropped into Mexico with nothing. Lyttle was still wearing his prison jump suit and was subsequently arrested in 3 Central American countries before his US family located him with the help of Nicaraguan authorities.

So my problem with the enforcement of illegal immigration is not its enforcement--it is that it doesn't work when American citizens are caught in its net and treated like crap, deported and ICE does little to right their own wrongs.





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