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"God is great!"

Does the previous statement offend you? It shouldn't, unless you believe that God is awful.

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actually got anything to say or is this going to be another pointless exercise is semantics and grammar?

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ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I just want to be left alone. By this, I mean I want my freedoms protected politically and legally. And I just do not want to be confronted by those who believe, and I do not want my rights restricted by narrow definitions based on any religion.

I leave people free to practice their religion - why can't they leave me in peace, too. But they can't because for many religions, the practice of their religion means committing to convert others to their faith. So I just can't be left alone.

In the UK we tend to leave each other well alone when it comes to that. Apart from recently there has been some bus advertising by both sides which has been a bit childish.

I guess the problem is: most religions have a code people are supposed to live by and as part of that Christians amongst others they are told to spread the word. We just have to be tolerant by understanding that annoying aspect is part of who they are (since their faith forces them to have an opinion on your life). Atheist's on the other hand haven't been told to do anything by anyone (fictional or otherwise).

Where to draw the line is if religious people start to curb your freedoms rather than just have an opinion but then I suppose opinions can lead to curbing of freedoms. It's tricky.

it's that old " the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" shit really. As an atheist I am happy to go about my day, I'll hold a door open for an old lady and I will put a pound in a pot for whatever charity is hanging around outside my local supermarket.
I am not challenging anyone, or trying to change anything by my atheism. Happy days, then I see a news article where a doctor has been attacked for working in an abortion clinic and some Asian girl has been raped and murdered for refusing an arranged marriage and I think, hang on, not challenging and not opposing isn't going to leave a stalemate, it will end up with the religious faction, whatever the religion is, winning and taking over my freedoms and the freedoms of others and that is not right.
Atheists have to fight back, Dawkins is a bit of a twat as he leaves no wriggle room( I think he is right btw) and a comprimise is always going to be the way this goes but to find an equal footing both sides have to be able to speak their mind and at the moment I feel the atheists do too much shoulder shrugging and not enough shouting

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ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

"They say that God created man in his own image.

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I've found that usually when christians whine about atheists proseltyzing the truth is they inserted their faith beliefs into a conversation with said atheist who then made clear how ridiculous they found said faith beliefs.

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Maybe they just don't like being confronted or called toxic by you. Look at how people in general act when confronted by bigotry, we tend to get rather pissed off and argumentative. The Uncle Tom days of atheism are over, get used to it.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

This has been a fascinating thread, and I thank ftp for the honesty and insight that went into her OP.

I suspect that many people do indeed find it daunting to contemplate a world where "Shit happens" with no rhyme or reason. I've felt that fear myself, and I do think one of the key sources of religion's appeal to folks is that it offers a way to make sense of things.

Two thoughts that I don't think anyone has mentioned:

(a) One powerful aspect of religion is its role in creating and maintaining community. I don't simply mean the kinship that can arise from shared belief, but the flesh-and-blood connections that arise out of seeing folks regularly, opening up one's heart and mind to them, undertaking volunteer work or service projects together, and being together (casseroles in hand) during times of joy and grief. I realize community can arise in other settings as well, of course.

(b) I get that one doesn't need God to be good, though it does strike me that the moral ideals many of us espouse--that life is good, that people should be treated with dignity, that societies should be just, and so forth--are empirically unprovable and therefore require (forgive me, but I can't resist) a "leap of faith."

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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I've found that usually when christians whine about atheists proseltyzing the truth is they inserted their faith beliefs into a conversation with said atheist who then made clear how ridiculous they found said faith beliefs.

actually that hasn't been my experience at all. Usually when an atheist confronts me, it's just the opposite. They entered into a conversation I was having with someone else. For example, my church had a meeting upstairs at a local pub. Yes, we had signs on the stairs letting people know where we were so they knew where to go. Before we even start the meeting, some man from in the pub comes upstairs and starts yelling at everyone about how evil we are and that God doesn't exist. We simply smiles and the pastor asked him in a friendly tone if he wished to join us for services. He went down the stairs cursing. We continued with our meeting.

Another time I was having lunch with a friend and we were talking about religion. Some woman overheard us and decided to butt in our conversation by telling us her atheist views. We moved to another table and ignored her.

Another time, an older woman and I were having a discussion about different church services in the area since I am new to Baltimore. And being a bus, most conversations are not exactly secret or quiet with the noise so apparently another woman though apparently it was a public conversation and started telling us about conspiracy theories and lunatic ideas and of course that God doesn't exist. It's a government conspiracy lol.

So as you see, it's just been the opposite for me.

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Maybe they just don't like being confronted or called toxic by you. Look at how people in general act when confronted by bigotry, we tend to get rather pissed off and argumentative. The Uncle Tom days of atheism are over, get used to it.

How would they know I find them toxic? It's not like I go up to people and tell them they're toxic lol. When I find someone toxic, I don't talk to them or about them at all. I simply don't include them in my life. They don't know why I don't. They just are not a part of my life.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I know they were not yours. I just quoted the people they are from. I use the quick response because well....I'm too lazy to do otherwise and if people are reading and following this thread then they know who the quotes are from. <shrug>

If not then they probably should go back and read the whole thread if they wish to not be confused. It's like opening a book in the middle and starting to read it. You'll be confused and feel that nothing makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I do agree that most atheists will not confront people in real life. I have rarely in my life ever witnessed that.

I think these boards allow people to say things sometimes that they would never say to someone's face.

I have been told, to my face, that I will go to hell, by people who believe in hell. I am only commenting from my own personal experience. I am glad you don't go around telling people that. But here is the thing. For those people who believe that they are, in fact, responsible for my spiritual salvation, they feel they don't have a choice but to tell me that unless I accept Christ as my savior, that I am doomed to an eternity in hell. They are simply fulfilling one of the obligations of their religion. And they really believe that I am going to go to hell. Again, this is what their religion says.

I'm not doubting your experiences.  I know that they happen.  I'll even go so far as to say that it's often done by misguided people.  (I'm not especially thrilled with some of the various reasons that people use that particular phrase.)

The boards absolutely do allow some people to say things they wouldn't say to someone in person.  Just take a look at all of the stuff that gets said around here that you'd never hear at a munch. 

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ORIGINAL: mmpie
Atheism is not scary. It is silly to me...

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ORIGINAL: mmpie
Which is a ludicrous statement since every moment of the day we face a situation that involving faith. Will my car work today? Will I slip on the stairs and fall to my death? Will the water I drink be safe? Will gravity continue to prevail against dark energy?

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ORIGINAL: mmpie
Does atheism mean you believe that there is no purpose?

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ORIGINAL: mmpie

Can someone explain the parameters of being an atheist? I am not a part of any church nor do I believe in any dogma. Yet I still pray and have faith in a higher intelligence to the universe. Does atheism mean you believe that there is no purpose?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: mmpie

Can someone explain the parameters of being an atheist? I am not a part of any church nor do I believe in any dogma. Yet I still pray and have faith in a higher intelligence to the universe. Does atheism mean you believe that there is no purpose?

For me it means that we are alone in this Universe, arrived coincidently through a sequence of events that began with the transmutation of elements in star bursts, continued eventually to abiogenesis from inorganic matter, and very lately to evolution of humankind; and we will undoubtably perish as will all other species perish from this earth.

In the meanwhile we have the capacity to imagine and construct our own purpose as individuals and within the human community. Our purpose is whatever we wish it to be. We do not need a creator myth to guide us. We do not need a host of imaginary angels to comfort us. We do not need the comic threat of damnation in eternal fire to coerce us to be kind to one another.

Mostly, our values are based upon humane social justice and not dependent upon the promise of some otherworldly reward of everlasting life.

Without terror, we accept the death of consciousness as irrevocable and inevitable with the destruction of the brain. There is no ghost in the machine, i.e. no soul lies within.

I say 'we' but of course I am speaking for myself. I welcome any comments because my atheism is a work in progress, and all of this is off the cuff late at night here on the east coast. Midnight. Goodnight

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Yachtie, your original claim was:
"As a Christian (absolutely non-denominational), I will have to say that I am not responsible (I'm assuming usage as in he's there because of me) for the the homeless guy sleeping on the sidewalk at night. And I survive quite well knowing that ..." (post #5)

Moonhead advanced a number of quotes from the Bible that suggest an interpretation at considerable variance to your claim above. Moonhead asked you:
"Precisely how does that absolve you of all responsibility for the homeless guy sleeping on the sidewalk at night?" (post # 6)

Your response was, in my view, an exercise in sophistry:
"If I beat the crap outta you, rob you, and leave you in the gutter - I am responsible for that.
If I were one who comes along, finds you beaten and robbed and do nothing where it's within my power and ability to do something I have shirked my responsibility.
To which are you referring within the context of being responsible? To which was I referring? Are they the same? " (post #12)
Moonhead has posed a basic question, after offering persuasive evidence to rebut your original claim. Your response to this has been to attempt to obfuscate the notion of "responsibility" rather than address the points Moonhead raised. As things stand at the moment, you are losing this argument by default.

From where I sit, your response is wholly inadequate. Please respond directly to the question Moonhead put to you.

Sure. When within the context from which it was taken, which is what my sophistry was about.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I do agree that most atheists will not confront people in real life. I have rarely in my life ever witnessed that.

I think these boards allow people to say things sometimes that they would never say to someone's face.

I have been told, to my face, that I will go to hell, by people who believe in hell. I am only commenting from my own personal experience. I am glad you don't go around telling people that. But here is the thing. For those people who believe that they are, in fact, responsible for my spiritual salvation, they feel they don't have a choice but to tell me that unless I accept Christ as my savior, that I am doomed to an eternity in hell. They are simply fulfilling one of the obligations of their religion. And they really believe that I am going to go to hell. Again, this is what their religion says.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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I've found that usually when christians whine about atheists proseltyzing the truth is they inserted their faith beliefs into a conversation with said atheist who then made clear how ridiculous they found said faith beliefs.

actually that hasn't been my experience at all. Usually when an atheist confronts me, it's just the opposite. They entered into a conversation I was having with someone else. For example, my church had a meeting upstairs at a local pub. Yes, we had signs on the stairs letting people know where we were so they knew where to go. Before we even start the meeting, some man from in the pub comes upstairs and starts yelling at everyone about how evil we are and that God doesn't exist. We simply smiles and the pastor asked him in a friendly tone if he wished to join us for services. He went down the stairs cursing. We continued with our meeting.

Another time I was having lunch with a friend and we were talking about religion. Some woman overheard us and decided to butt in our conversation by telling us her atheist views. We moved to another table and ignored her.

Another time, an older woman and I were having a discussion about different church services in the area since I am new to Baltimore. And being a bus, most conversations are not exactly secret or quiet with the noise so apparently another woman though apparently it was a public conversation and started telling us about conspiracy theories and lunatic ideas and of course that God doesn't exist. It's a government conspiracy lol.

So as you see, it's just been the opposite for me.