Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds

Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

GotSteel -> Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 3:39:00 PM)
So I'll sometimes come across arguments for god which aren't based on the truth of the claim but on how it's beneficial even if it's isn't true. Besides pointing out why I'm horrified by those "so what if it's a scam" arguments it's also nice when I'm able to point out that those claimed benefits aren't true. There's one argument that I'd just never been able to find any data for until I came across this today: quote: ORIGINAL: http://now.msn.com/living/0504-atheists-compassion.aspx Who's more generous, religious people or atheists? If you guessed believers, you're wrong, according to a new study conducted at the University of California, Berkeley. Researchers found that atheists and agnostics were actually "more inclined to help their fellow citizens" by, say, giving food or money to those in need, than were people who identified as religious. The study's authors, who surveyed 1,300 Americans, suggested that non-believers may be driven by emotions like compassion, whereas religious people may be motivated by "doctrine, a communal identity or reputational concerns." Chances are atheists will find the study's conclusions easy to believe, while believers will doubt them.

Rule -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 5:14:42 PM)
For such assertions more than one research article is required. Some time ago two respected scientists in The Netherlands published a study that showed that vegetarians were less aggressive than people who eat meat. As it afterwards turned out, one of those respected researchers had made up his data. (Nor am I impressed by the other researcher who stupidly put her name next to his above the article.) Further investigation showed that this same fraudulent - respected - scientist had made up the data of at least half of all his published research. You are clinging not to the rock of that cliff, GT, but to straws.

hardcybermaster -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 5:19:31 PM)
hey, I'm an atheist but that is piss poor steel

DaddySatyr -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 5:22:06 PM)
Could I just say: Maybe the study didn't ask if believers chose to give to their fellow man *through their church* ? Peace and comfort, Michael

dcnovice -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 5:27:37 PM)
This appears to be the methodology: In the first study, Saslow and her colleagues analyzed data from a national survey of more than 1,300 American adults taken in 2004. They found that compassionate attitudes were linked with how many generous behaviors a person was likely to report. But this link was strongest in people who were atheists or only slightly religious, compared with people who were more strongly religious. [ 8 Ways Religion Impacts Your Life ] In a second experiment, 101 adults were shown either a neutral video or an emotional video about children in poverty. They were then given 10 fake dollars and told they could give as much as they liked to a stranger. Those who were less religious gave more when they saw the emotional video first. "The compassion-inducing video had a big effect on their generosity," Willer said. "But it did not significantly change the generosity of more religious participants." Finally, a sample of more than 200 college students reported their current level of compassion and then played economic games in which they were given money to share or withhold from a stranger. Those who were the least religious but most momentarily compassionate shared the most. Source: MSNBC It took all my self-control )not an abundant resource) to keep from putting methodology in quotes. [:)]

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 6:27:08 PM)
I cannot comment on whether this is a well done study or not. I also would say one study is not dispositive. HOWEVER, this finding does comport with my personal experiences in life. The absolute most generous people who I know are atheists or extremely lax believers. And by generous, I mean the most generous with both their time and money to non-religious charities, outreach programs, etc. Some of the most religious people I know are the absolute stingiest when it comes to their money and time. But there is a wide variance in between those two extremes. But the extremes match up to the study you describe. My only issue with church donations is that portions of church donations go to maintaining the church itself and to the proselytizing efforts of churches. Not really the same thing in my mind as donating food to a food bank. If someone has more specific data on exactly where church donations actually go, I would be interested in knowing that.

kalikshama -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:01:15 PM)
Unfortunately, in this article there's no complete breakdown, but for mainline Protestant and evangelical churches in 2009, "Just over 2 percent of income went toward congregational finances, such as operating costs and building expenses." The study's authors appear to have (justifiable) concern about the lack of progress in infant mortality and seem to blame stingy giving for the lack of such in Christian nations: http://www.emptytomb.org/toc_scg09.html Which kind of proves the OP, because as an atheist, I'm blind to religion when I'm charitable. Here's some worthy causes: https://www.oxfamamericaunwrapped.com/Midwife.html https://www.oxfamamericaunwrapped.com/Goat-charitable-gift.html http://www.collarchat.com/m_4109170/tm.htm

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:34:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Unfortunately, in this article there's no complete breakdown, but for mainline Protestant and evangelical churches in 2009, "Just over 2 percent of income went toward congregational finances, such as operating costs and building expenses." The study's authors appear to have (justifiable) concern about the lack of progress in infant mortality and seem to blame stingy giving for the lack of such in Christian nations: http://www.emptytomb.org/toc_scg09.html Which kind of proves the OP, because as an atheist, I'm blind to religion when I'm charitable. Here's some worthy causes: https://www.oxfamamericaunwrapped.com/Midwife.html https://www.oxfamamericaunwrapped.com/Goat-charitable-gift.html http://www.collarchat.com/m_4109170/tm.htm Kali, I'm quoting from the article you posted: "Parishioners gave about 2.38 percent of their income to their church, according to "The State of Church Giving through 2009," a new report being released Friday (Oct. 14) by Empty Tomb inc., a Christian research agency in Champaign, Ill. Just over 2 percent of income went toward congregational finances, such as operating costs and building expenses. Only 0.34 percent of parishioner income went to what Empty Tomb calls "benevolences," such as charities and seminary training beyond the four walls of the church." Please correct me if I'm wrong, 2.38% of parishioners income went to the church. 2% went to operating expenses. 0.34% went to charity. .04% is unaccounted for in this article. In other words 84% of what was collected went to operating and building expenses. Is this a correct reading of the article?? If so, things are even worse than I could have imagined. [&:]

thishereboi -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:43:34 PM)
quote: My only issue with church donations is that portions of church donations go to maintaining the church itself and to the proselytizing efforts of churches. Not really the same thing in my mind as donating food to a food bank. If someone has more specific data on exactly where church donations actually go, I would be interested in knowing that. I can only speak for the church I go to, but there you can specify if you want your money to go to missions, building fund or something else. You can even specify which mission you want to support.

kalikshama -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:47:37 PM)
Good grief, you're right, I misread "income" as "donations!" The mind boggles. quote: "Parishioners gave about 2.38 percent of their income to their church, according to "The State of Church Giving through 2009," a new report being released Friday (Oct. 14) by Empty Tomb inc., a Christian research agency in Champaign, Ill. Just over 2 percent of income went toward congregational finances, such as operating costs and building expenses. Only 0.34 percent of parishioner income went to what Empty Tomb calls "benevolences," such as charities and seminary training beyond the four walls of the church." Please correct me if I'm wrong, 2.38% of parishioners income went to the church. 2% went to operating expenses. 0.34% went to charity. .04% is unaccounted for in this article. In other words 84% of what was collected went to operating and building expenses. Is this a correct reading of the article?? If so, things are even worse than I could have imagined.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Good grief, you're right, I misread "income" as "donations!" The mind boggles. quote: "Parishioners gave about 2.38 percent of their income to their church, according to "The State of Church Giving through 2009," a new report being released Friday (Oct. 14) by Empty Tomb inc., a Christian research agency in Champaign, Ill. Just over 2 percent of income went toward congregational finances, such as operating costs and building expenses. Only 0.34 percent of parishioner income went to what Empty Tomb calls "benevolences," such as charities and seminary training beyond the four walls of the church." Please correct me if I'm wrong, 2.38% of parishioners income went to the church. 2% went to operating expenses. 0.34% went to charity. .04% is unaccounted for in this article. In other words 84% of what was collected went to operating and building expenses. Is this a correct reading of the article?? If so, things are even worse than I could have imagined. By the way, I suspect these figures are not far off the mark for all religions. All right. Well the next time someone tells me they "already gave at church/temple/synagogue/mosque/whatever", I have a better sense of what exactly it is that they are supporting. GotSteel, I've rethought my position - I think one study may, in this case, be enough.....[&:]

kdsub -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:57:05 PM)
So what the study says is religious people give through their church...and because atheists have no church they give as an individual... Just because I give to church charities or through my tithe does not mean I am less compassionate. I believe the study is crap. Butch

littlewonder -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 7:59:20 PM)
At our church what we donate, 75% right now goes towards missions to help build churches in other places, or giving money to other pastors to help them start a church in their area, supplying HIV kits for our annual HIV station where anyone can come and get tested for free, to give clothing and supplies to children in Baltimore in poverty stricken schools, etc....We're hoping to have that at 95% within the next 5 years. As for the study, I won't say it's wrong. It's actually probably right. It's something our pastor was preaching on last Sunday and he's feeling frustrated that not many are giving what they should be it money or time in donating since we are an intentional living church. Many come to services just to say "I'm a christian because I went to Sunday service". Most churches probably only have about 10% who really devote themselves to Christian living.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:17:16 PM)
p.s. In reference to "The State of Church Giving" study. From the National Center for Charitable Statistics: Watchdog groups provide various guidelines for nonprofit management and fundraising activity. For example, the BBB Wise Giving Alliance recommends that nonprofits spend at least 65% of its annual expenses on program activity, while the American Institute of Philanthropy sets its minimum standard at 60% of expenses. The United Way of the National Capital Area, on the other hand, sets its minimum requirement for agencies that receive funds at 80% of total expenses spent on programs. So what does this imply about an organization that spends only 14% of total expenses on charitable programs and 84% on overhead? I would have to conclude that "charitable" is not the proper word to use for these fundraising efforts. I understand fully that a religious organization is not the equivalent of a charity. But if these numbers are anywhere remotely close to the reality, I think people need to reconsider whether donating to a religious organization really is supporting charitable works and programs. Perhaps one would be better off simply donating directly to those organizations who are doing the kind of philanthropy that one supports. I am not disputing that religious people are supporting their temple/mosque/synagogue/church - clearly they are doing that by paying for the overhead expenses of these organizations - and they are entitled to do so. I'm just suggesting that supporting one's religious institution is not really the same as "giving food or money to those in need". And again, correct me if I am wrong but mission work is the proselytizing arm of the Church. The money is spent in hopes of getting people to convert. Again, one of the basic tenets of Christianity is proselytizing - saving other people's souls - whether through knocking door-to-door or doing mission work locally or abroad.

Arturas -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: http://now.msn.com/living/0504-atheists-compassion.aspx Who's more generous, religious people or atheists? If you guessed believers, you're wrong, according to a new study conducted at the University of California, Berkeley. That's funny. Msn based reporting is always a hoot. I really enjoy the Rev. Al Sharpton when he is towing the party line and somehow trys and even achieves the look that says "this is so evident" even when he is spinning the biggest ole tale you ever heard. Now, mix in a bit of that extreme over the edge leftist bastion, UC Berkely and it gets to be good enough for a Saturday Night Live opening line. The truth is, "believers" are all generous without equal. What is missed in this "study" is that only ten to thrith perrcent on average of any church are mature "believers" who order their lives in agreement with their faith, their belief. The rest are those who lack real passionate belief and so they do not order their life and their works based on being a "believer". These are the "children" of the faith who are still growing in that faith but lack the great works derived from such belief, such faith, which is where one can get the impression believers are not as generous as you would think.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:26:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder As for the study... Other data shows the OP's "study" is WRONG. See the following pages, paying close attention to the Appendix Pages (which shows the Data/Tables): Who Really Cares http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compasionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216#reader_0465008216 As for "giving" at your church being down?!! I suspect that has more to do with the present crappy economy. People are stretched pretty thin these days.

Tantriqu -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:33:35 PM)
AND we have higher IQ's, we're less likely to resolve issues with violence, we're more honest, we're less racist, and we're the fastest growing belief system [20-25%]. Plus, we're far less likely to steal, to embezzle, or sexually interfere with children, compared to regular church-goers. We rock! And Unitarians come close. Edited to add percentages and to note it's only regular church-goers who are more likely to steal, embezzle and molest. Atheists have to stop being passive, and stand up to be counted, otherwise, society is doomed to repeat its most shameful mistakes. DOOOOOOOOOMED!¬.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:42:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder As for the study... Other data shows the OP's "study" is WRONG. See the following pages, paying close attention to the Appendix Pages (which shows the Data/Tables): Who Really Cares http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compasionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216#reader_0465008216 As for "giving" at your church being down?!! I suspect that has more to do with the present crappy economy. People are stretched pretty thin these days. I'm sure this is true. Atheist are only 1.6% of the American population whereas over 83% are affiliated with one of the major religions. Wouldn't you expect 83% of the population to be overall contributing more time and money to the overall charitable pool??? Even if every one of the Atheists contributed, it would be barely a drop in the bucket compared to 83%. Also this book is looking at all charity across the board, including donations to religious institutions, donations to art museums, volunteering time at private schools, etc. The study quoted in the OP is looking at things like giving food or money to those in need. I actually think both studies are accurate, but they are looking at different things. I'm not sure that one contradicts the other per se.

littlewonder -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:46:32 PM)
But I wasn't speaking ONLY of money. He's upset that many are not volunteering and donating time even if it's just helping to tear down church services every Sunday. As for the study, I didn't read it and have no desire to do so. Be it right or wrong, I only know what my experience is. I have no need to argue the study or anyone's beliefs or non-beliefs.

Fightdirecto -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/15/2012 8:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tantriqu AND we have higher IQ's, we're less likely to resolve issues with violence, we're more honest, we're less racist, and we're the fastest growing belief system. Plus, we're far less likely to steal, to embezzle, or sexually interfere with children, compared to regular church-goers. We rock! I just LOVE a "holier-than-thou" atheist! [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] Next you're going to tell me that atheists get less cavities than churchgoers... [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] Out of curiousity - what does the survey say about religious people like myself, a follower of Jesus Christ who does not belong to an organized church? (IMO, every "organized Christian church" is full of dogma and rules not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, but based instead on the teachings of some human being - like a Pat Robertson or a Pope or a Saul of Tarsus AKA Paul. That's why I don't belong to one.)

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625