RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds

RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Arturas -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 8:49:57 PM)
Free Reply. From the MSNBC article... quote: The study's authors, who surveyed 1,300 Americans, suggested that non-believers may be driven by emotions like compassion, whereas religious people may be motivated by "doctrine, a communal identity or reputational concerns." Chances are atheists will find the study's conclusions easy to believe, while believers will doubt them. They are right, believers doubt the conclusion. With good reason. First, 1300 is a small sample, Too small. Second, the comment "may be motivated by doctrine, a community identity or reputational concerns" is not only a big "may" but is in fact incorrect. Believers individually and as a group, as in a church family, have learned that for every one truely needy there is another one who is conning them. From experience the "believers" learn they must not jump in and give without some verification of the need and the best way is through their church supported giving missions, those that have been investigated and shown to be worthy. Believers have become wary of giving to anyone with their hand out or taking in any stranger who knock on their door or the door of their chruch. You would not believe the number of people who go from church to church perodically claiming the same need to each so they can buy more beer or keep from having to work. So, the study is flawed in having too small a sample and the test for being compassionate is biased against how believers must restrain their compassion until it is directed towards verified needs, those supported by their church family. This means their church does the compassionate deeds with their support whereas the individual Atheist will poll in such a study as giving x amount monthly to "save the children" and "Planned Parenthood" through their large donations to United Way and also monthy individual giving to things like the homeless shelter.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 8:54:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder We don't have a conversion process. You are free to come and go as you please. And when they root a church there are people already in that area...the ones who invited us, who are needing help in building up their church and through word of mouth, others inviting others, etc....who come to the church. No one goes out and hands out pamphlets, no one knocks on your door and no one tells you you're going to hell. All the church asks is that if you wish to be closer to god that you live an intentional life meaning you make a choice every single day to be one with God and his choices for you. If you don't that's fine too. Your choice. And like I said, it's not just christianity that does it. Others religions do also. I'm sorry, I assumed you were Christian, hence my addressing this to that particular religion. If you aren't Christian, then again ignore my comments to the extent they are specific to Christianity. Yes there are other religions that proselytize, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But there are many religions that do not proselytize. Proselytizing efforts are not restricted to door-to-door activity. What you describe would still be considered proselytizing - i.e., inviting people to join your religion IS proselytizing. That's what it means. I never said "forced conversion" which is something else entirely.

littlewonder -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 8:57:45 PM)
I am christian but like I said there are many religions that do the same thing and we don't have to convert them. What is there to convert them to? They either want to live an intentional life or they don't. No one can force you to do anything. You make a choice yourself...you, no one else. We don't invite them....they invite us and then they bring friends along who are interested or family or they see the church while driving by and want to learn more about it or they run across the website....kinda like ya know...bdsm groups and forums, etc....It ain't no different lol. So I guess you could say bdsm groups proselytize and convert as well lol.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 9:12:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I am christian but like I said there are many religions that do the same thing and we don't have to convert them. What is there to convert them to? They either want to live an intentional life or they don't. No one can force you to do anything. You make a choice yourself...you, no one else. We don't invite them....they invite us and then they bring friends along who are interested or family or they see the church while driving by and want to learn more about it or they run across the website....kinda like ya know...bdsm groups and forums, etc....It ain't no different lol. So I guess you could say bdsm groups proselytize and convert as well lol. We may be operating under different definitions of conversion. It is my understanding that conversion simply means converting to a faith (from either a different faith, or from no faith). In other words, a Jewish person could convert to Catholicism, or a Catholic could convert to Methodism, or a Hindu could convert to Greek Orthodox, or a Methodist could convert to Islam, or an atheist could convert to Buddhism. I'm not quite following how if someone is of a different religion that you don't have to convert them. I mean if they are not your particular faith, do you not have to convert them? Or is the group you are referring to not a Christian group but a pan-religious group that accepts people of all different faiths - so Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims, etc. can all join without having to convert? In other words, you can be part of your church/group and not believe in Christ. I'm sorry, what you're describing just doesn't fit any religion that I am aware of , so I am just trying to understand.

thompsonx -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 9:13:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Is not divine retribution a major tennent of religion? Is not divine retribution the punishment for not doing what god has told you to do? Fwiw, I've spent my life in and around churches (Catholic, Episcopal, Unitarian), and I've never heard fear of divine retribution cited as a reason for moral behavior. Ymmv, I realize. I was raised a roman catholic. I went to catholic grammar school and high school. I was an alter boy and was headed to a jesuit seminary to become a priest when my uncle offered me an exciting job(to a 17 year old)with a pretty good benifit package. I must admit the clothes he gave me looked a whole lot sharper than the black dress the jesuits offered. It is from that background that I speak. Catholics have a sliding scale of punishment for different offenses. There are also ways to buy your way out of certain punishments (plenary indulgencies) reduce the time one spends in purgatory for the residual of the sins you have been forgiven in confession. Bottom line if you do not do as we tell you god is going to fuck you up(send you to hell to burn in everlasting pain). Jhonathan winthrop had nothing on the penguins at st. ann's. I outgrew that shit the day I got to watch it raining tree stumps(fire mission slightly off target)

thompsonx -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 9:28:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 I've only read the first 7 posts, but could it be that modesty might prevent the believers from enumerating each charitable act? That has never been my experience with christians. One might consider any number of tv preachers and their line of rhetoric

thompsonx -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 9:30:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I can't control what others did or do so I don't really concern myself about it. When I talk I talk about me and those around me and our community and people and experiences. My ancestors did lots of things. Does that mean I'm now responsible for all their bad deeds? If so then you may as well shoot me now. Which of your ancestors bad deeds would you feel responsible to correct?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/16/2012 11:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas They are right, believers doubt the conclusion. With good reason. First, 1300 is a small sample, Too small. Prove mathematically that a sample of 1300 respondents is too small. The rest of your post is self-serving horseshit.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:18:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas They are right, believers doubt the conclusion. With good reason. First, 1300 is a small sample, Too small. Prove mathematically that a sample of 1300 respondents is too small. The rest of your post is self-serving horseshit. From IQS research: quote: So what is a small enough sample that we can predict how many Louisvillians like vanilla ice cream? Half a million? No. How about 100,000? No, smaller. Maybe 10,000? Nope. Surprisingly enough, for a population of about one million people, we would only need to survey 384 people to get a reliable answer. There are specific factors we have to consider regarding who to pick, making sure all pockets of the population are included, and the quality of the research basis, but if we can satisfy all those factors, we only have to talk to 384 people total. And if 80% of those 384 people said vanilla’s the way to go, we would have a margin of error of 5% and we could be confident that 75% to 85% of the entire one million people in Louisville said vanilla was their favorite flavor. (We discussed margin of error in a previous post.) What’s fascinating is if we wanted to widen our population count to, say 100 million people, you might think we have to ask 38,400 people. Not so. If you wanted to find out how many people out of 100 million would vote for vanilla, you only need to survey 385 people. It is still a statistically valid sample with just 385 people, and still able to gauge the ice cream preferences of one-third of the United States. After you hit the 10,000 mark in your population, the number needed to survey goes up very slowly. The world of surveys and statistics is fascinating to say the least, and there’s a lot to understand, but making sure your numbers are on par and statistically valid, is one essential element that makes research the amazing tool for business it can be. Seems to me that 1300 is way more than they needed to survey. And I'm sure most prescription drugs are tested on fewer than 1300 people. So those of you who feel 1300 is too small, please don't use any prescription medication because clearly they haven't been tested to your standards. [&:]

DomKen -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:32:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder they don't show up uninvited. They're invited by either the community or a pastor looking to build his own church. Christianity is native to at most the old Roman Empire. The rest of world was converted uninvited. It happened to my Scottish ancestors and again to my Cherokee ancestors. Modern efforts are no more authentic.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:36:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: Of course they also tossed their daughter out on the street in high-school when they found out she was gay. Personally I can't help but think we really could do without more of those kinds of churches. I hardly believe they tossed an underage daughter out on the street. That would be illegal for one. So, if she was of age then I would suggest it was not just because she was gay but even if it was "my roof, my rules" applies here and this does not in any manner support your comment on "those kinds of churches" unless there is something else we should know that would substantiate such a view of churches. Well wishes, Arturas You might want to volunteer here where you can hear the stories of underage girls and boys kicked out for being gay.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:38:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas The truth is, "believers" are all generous without equal. What is missed in this "study" is that only ten to thrith perrcent on average of any church are mature "believers" who order their lives in agreement with their faith, their belief. The rest are those who lack real passionate belief and so they do not order their life and their works based on being a "believer". These are the "children" of the faith who are still growing in that faith but lack the great works derived from such belief, such faith, which is where one can get the impression believers are not as generous as you would think. Looks like todays logical fallacy is "No True Scotsman." Why do you say so? Because that is what your paragraph is.

DomKen -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:41:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas They are right, believers doubt the conclusion. With good reason. First, 1300 is a small sample, Too small. it depends on how that sample was selected. Done right much smaller samples are indicative of the population as a whole. 1300 strikes me as either a very careful study or an unusually high response rate.

Kana -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 10:51:20 AM)
Yeah, hate to say it, but if I remember my base statistics correctly, 35 samples will give a reasonable confidence level, provided there is a normal bell curve. 1300 should be more than enough. Once you get into those numbers, you are just playing with confidence levels of the survey. 35 will give a lower confidence ratio. 10,000,000 would give a very high one. Of course, this assumes the test wasn't biased by any other factors such as demographics, geography etc...

hlen5 -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 1:51:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 I've only read the first 7 posts, but could it be that modesty might prevent the believers from enumerating each charitable act? That has never been my experience with christians. One might consider any number of tv preachers and their line of rhetoric Then how unfortunate for you. I don't consider tv preachers much at all.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 1:52:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas ...the study is flawed in having too small a sample The "flaw" is not in the sample size (1,300 is more than sufficient), but in the METHODOLOGY from which the CONLUSION is being drawn from. As questioned/stated a couple pages ago: quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Does ANYONE have an actual link to DOWNLOAD THE STUDY -- all I've seen are articles referencing the study, but no way to view the ACTUAL STUDY, at least not without paying for it?!! I ask because, based on what I've seen of the alleged data, no rational person could draw such a conclusion from the following: In the first experiment, researchers analyzed data from a 2004 national survey of more than 1,300 American adults. Those who agreed with such statements as “When I see someone being taken advantage of, I feel kind of protective towards them” were also more inclined to show generosity in random acts of kindness, such as loaning out belongings and offering a seat on a crowded bus or train, researchers found. In the second experiment, 101 American adults watched one of two brief videos, a neutral video or a heartrending one, which showed portraits of children afflicted by poverty. Next, they were each given 10 “lab dollars” and directed to give any amount of that money to a stranger In the final experiment, more than 200 college students were asked to report how compassionate they felt at that moment. They then played “economic trust games” in which they were given money to share – or not – with a stranger. http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/04/30/religionandgenerosity/ Thus, if the above is accurate: 1) The first data set is based on if someone "agreed" with a statement -- i.e., no actual money/time given. 2) The second data set is based on "lab dollars" -- i.e., no actual money/time given. 3) The third data set is based on how "compassionate" one "felt" -- i.e., no actual money/time given. Compare the above to ACTUAL MONEY/TIME GIVEN, as referenced by Brooks' data in "Who Really Cares", and it's difficult to take the alleged "study" with any real seriousness. Again, if the above is accurate, then it's more of a JOKE than any type of valid/predictive study?!! So once again, if the above methodology was used to arrive at the author's conclusion, it's HARDLY predictive -- and a bit of a joke to attempt to draw some REAL LIFE behavior from feelings and funny-money (i.e., "lab dollars").

PeonForHer -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 2:28:27 PM)
FR Would this be a good time to mention Gregory S. Paul's research into social health and cohesion related to levels of religiosity in various countries? This drew from a number of studies and found, amongst other things, that religious societies were more murderous. Would it be fair to say that murdering people isn't a compassionate thing to do?

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 3:03:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Would it be fair to say that murdering people isn't a compassionate thing to do? Not in the context of "compassion" (i.e., giving of time/money -- i.e., charity) as it's being referenced in the OP. But interesting info, though?

thompsonx -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 3:48:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 I've only read the first 7 posts, but could it be that modesty might prevent the believers from enumerating each charitable act? That has never been my experience with christians. One might consider any number of tv preachers and their line of rhetoric Then how unfortunate for you. I don't consider tv preachers much at all. I can only speak about those who self identify as christians. Or: Perhaps I don't get out enough.[;)]

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Atheists more compassionate than believers, study finds (5/17/2012 5:16:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Would this be a good time to mention Gregory S. Paul's research into social health and cohesion related to levels of religiosity in various countries? This drew from a number of studies and found, amongst other things, that religious societies were more murderous. Would it be fair to say that murdering people isn't a compassionate thing to do? Actually it is if they are trying to convert them and they refuse to be converted. At least that's what some religions believe. So perspective is everything.

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625