Alanon or AA and a submissive (Full Version)

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Hismouse -> Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 12:44:39 AM)

Just wondering if there are any submissives on the boards that go to Alanon or AA?
He is in AA and has been sober for 20 years (makes me so proud). I have just began
attending Alanon and am doing step 4, and working through some other things.

If you are part of this program and wouldn't mind chatting with me and sharing some
of what you know, I would love to hear from you.



DarkSteven -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 5:41:31 AM)

Dumb question - I understand a bit about AA and Al-Anon (sounds like an AQ terrorist) - why is this a question for kinksters? Wouldn't this be an entirely vanilla thing?



Hismouse -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 5:47:49 AM)

You can't be a submissive if you attend either of those things?

Sorry I'm confused as to your statement, especially from someone like you, I was really reluctant to post anything about this. It is almost like you have just said to be in a 12 step program you have to be a vanilla person.........REALLY?

I'm looking to identify with someone who may be in the same place or has been in the place I find myself in, and is also a submissive.

I guess that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Is this a vanilla question, certainly not, well that's my opinion.



DarkSteven -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 5:55:12 AM)

Okay. Let me clarify. If you asked how a submissive should shop at a grocery store, I'd ask why shopping is different for a sub than a vanilla.

You're asking how a submissive should work with AA and Al-Anon. My question is, why would being a sub have any bearing on it? How would AA and Al-Anon be any different for a kinkster?



NuevaVida -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 6:48:07 AM)

Actually, Steven, that's an interesting question. If a submissive is to submit to the desires of his/her dominant, yet the concept of Al-Anon is to learn not to enable, this could create an internal conflict of when to say no.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 7:01:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse

Just wondering if there are any submissives on the boards that go to Alanon or AA?
He is in AA and has been sober for 20 years (makes me so proud). I have just began
attending Alanon and am doing step 4, and working through some other things.

If you are part of this program and wouldn't mind chatting with me and sharing some
of what you know, I would love to hear from you.



I have had a relationship with a Dominant who had gone through 12-steps, and I found it extremely helpful for myself to learn more about the program that he went through, and also to learn more about drug addiction generally, in order to simply understand his issues better. To be clear I did not go to Alanon meetings or anything, but I did educate myself about the issues. I also made some personal choices to be supportive, for example, I never consumed alcohol in his presence. We were not living together, so I did not give up alcohol entirely. I cannot answer the question of whether I would have given up alcohol entirely if we had decided to stay together longer term, but I certainly would have considered it (i.e., not consuming in his presence, but also not keeping any alcohol around the house.) But socializing with others always presented an issue as alcohol is such a part of people's lives that people lose sight of how it is just everywhere. When I was with him, I found I was much more sensitive to the fact that it felt like it was everywhere (media, social events, etc.) I was also sensitive to the fact that the "one day at a time" aspect of addiction was really important to internalize. For many, recovery is not something they go through, and then they are "cured" or "done". It is something they face every day.

I do not believe that being the submissive in a D/s relationship means that one can "ignore" or discount health related issues as being solely the Dominant's responsibility or issue. Whether your health, or his, a D/s relationship should not get in the way of getting the best help possible, and being mutually supportive, regardless of role. I would say the same thing if you were the Dominant in this relationship.



OsideGirl -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 7:23:52 AM)

Master did his 12 steps ages ago. I've never gone to the support group simply because it was long before I was in his life, so I'm not much help on your question. That said, we have a lot friends that are in the program.

There is a 12 step program group on Fet life. You may find that helpful.



Hismouse -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 7:54:48 AM)

Thank you Nueva,

that is exactly one of the things I would like to discuss with another, to see how they dealt with those types of conflicts, I'm not wishing to copy how someone else worked their program, just to share with someone who has been in a similar situation. I appreciate your response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Actually, Steven, that's an interesting question. If a submissive is to submit to the desires of his/her dominant, yet the concept of Al-Anon is to learn not to enable, this could create an internal conflict of when to say no.



Hismouse -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 8:03:10 AM)

Thank you OsideGirl,
My Dom has been doing the 12 steps for 20 years, and I've been in his life for 3 years. He continues to go, as the newcomers remind him of why he doesn't want to pick up, and he may also be able to help them with their recovery having been clean for 20 years.
I have embarked on the support group, not so much to be able to understand him, as he is very open and honest with me, if I wish to know something I ask and he will tell me. It is more for my own personal journey and he has encouraged and suggested I attend :-) I go because there are some things I need to work on for me. Thank you for your response.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Master did his 12 steps ages ago. I've never gone to the support group simply because it was long before I was in his life, so I'm not much help on your question. That said, we have a lot friends that are in the program.

There is a 12 step program group on Fet life. You may find that helpful.



Hismouse -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 8:16:57 AM)

Thank you ftp
I chose to give up drinking not long after I met him, it was out of respect. I have attended many meetings with him, and have always been inspired by the people in the rooms and the daily struggle they face, If it is his problem then it is also mine, I will never fully understand what an addict goes through, I can try to imagine, but it wouldn't be close, as I have never experienced it personally.
Thank you for your response.



MissCake -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 8:59:48 AM)

I am a clean and sober dominant. I have had subs who were 12 steppers and subs who aren't. Because sobriety and the 12 Steps have a great deal to do with my outlook on life and my history as a person, it's worthwhile for my playmates to have at least a little sense of what it is about. There's a lot of jargon in AA which we forget other folks may not understand in the way that we do.

Because our relationships in the kink lifestyle can be so very intense, I can entirely see why 12 steppers may want to share more specific experience, strength and hope with one another. Does that make a little more sense Steven?



DesFIP -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 9:10:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Actually, Steven, that's an interesting question. If a submissive is to submit to the desires of his/her dominant, yet the concept of Al-Anon is to learn not to enable, this could create an internal conflict of when to say no.



Not really. You discuss what things you aren't to do, even if he asks for them. And that would include buying alcohol for him.

Some people are okay with others consuming alcohol in their presence and even having it in the house. Others aren't. Discuss this ahead of time.

But if he tells you never to buy him any, no matter what, then that rule supersedes a momentary craving. However someone with 20 years isn't likely to have a slip.



littlewonder -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 10:01:55 AM)

I attended Alanon when my husband was an alcoholic. He was refusing treatment at the time but attending alanon helped me in dealing with his addiction and having others to speak with, learning how to help him get through his addiction. It made me a better person overall. That was over 15 years ago though.

What else would you like to know?

If your Dom has been sober for 20 years now though I don't really see him slipping up. Yeah, sure it can happen but it's less than likely. I'm not sure how Alanon would help someone who does not have to actively deal with an alcoholic. Then again, I'm not sure what it is you feel you need to work on with yourself.



DarkSteven -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 11:23:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Actually, Steven, that's an interesting question. If a submissive is to submit to the desires of his/her dominant, yet the concept of Al-Anon is to learn not to enable, this could create an internal conflict of when to say no.


Thanks for the comment, NV.

Hismouse, I apologize. I hadn't realized how directions could conflict for a sub in Al-Anon.



OsideGirl -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 11:45:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I'm not sure how Alanon would help someone who does not have to actively deal with an alcoholic.
Which was why I opted not to attend, as well. He was no longer the person he had been when he was using and had dealt with his demons. I wasn't actively dealing with someone with an active drug problem.



DesFIP -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/24/2012 5:59:05 PM)

I actually have never found Alanon meetings of use except for people still in relationships with active alcoholics. To be completely honest, the women who ran the ones up here had a vested interest in their spouses not getting sober as it would reduce their ability to be martyrs.

I'm told meetings elsewhere aren't like this though.

Personally, I always preferred ACOA. To realize why you chose to get involved with a drunk.



Hismouse -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/25/2012 12:52:50 AM)

Thanks littlewonder,

Most people would think after being sober 20 years, isn't he (cured/better) :-) he still has all the traits of an alcoholic even though he's been sober 20 years, so whilst I don't know him as a drinker, I still have to deal with the traits and learn best how to deal with them, along the way I can work on me as well. There are always some bits we can try to improve on :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I attended Alanon when my husband was an alcoholic. He was refusing treatment at the time but attending alanon helped me in dealing with his addiction and having others to speak with, learning how to help him get through his addiction. It made me a better person overall. That was over 15 years ago though.

What else would you like to know?

If your Dom has been sober for 20 years now though I don't really see him slipping up. Yeah, sure it can happen but it's less than likely. I'm not sure how Alanon would help someone who does not have to actively deal with an alcoholic. Then again, I'm not sure what it is you feel you need to work on with yourself.




Kana -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/25/2012 7:29:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hismouse
he still has all the traits of an alcoholic even though he's been sober 20 years, so whilst I don't know him as a drinker, I still have to deal with the traits and learn best how to deal with them, along the way I can work on me as well.

As someone who worked in the recovery community for a long time I both get this and don't.
1-I absolutely get the concept that drinking is just a symptom of the deeper underlying character flaws underneath that cause alcoholism. And I totally understand that you can take the alcohol out of the drunk and all that you'll be left with is the "ic"
2-That said, after twenty years of practicing the steps, which are defined as " a group of principles, spiritual in their nature, which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole," these flaws should be grooved down to where they are largely a non-issue. Further, the point of the 12 steps is to "have a spiritual awakening" which is later defined as " a personality change sufficient to overcome alcohol."-in other words, psychic and spiritual surgery (Or better yet, dentistry has occurred) has been undertaken, the ex problem drinker has done a whole shift in make up, deportment, values, and moral guideposts and thus is quite literally a new man....not the same person who walked in the door of the 12 steps. Kinda like the religious concept of being reborn.
So with all that, those driving character flaws, those internal forces and selfishnesses that drove him to drink-they should not be active and present in his life on a daily basis. If they are, you got problems. Big effing problems.
Point of fact-you shouldn't have to deal with those traits at all-he should...because it's his recovery and he is responsible for his actions.
What alanon or AA or any other 12 step program will do is help you in how you react to him and the world around you.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/25/2012 7:35:02 AM)

I suggest you read up on "dry drunk", a concept I became intimately familiar with. I can barely establish a routine, addiction is not part of my personality, so there were many aspects of the addictive personality that I didnt even recognize.




MercTech -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (5/25/2012 7:39:09 AM)

Hopefully, you can find a sponsor that understands the dynamic of BDSM so you can be fully open and honest. Honesty, especially with one's self, is truly needed in any twelve step program.



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