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Kana -> RE: Alanon or AA and a submissive (12/23/2012 12:12:10 PM)
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ORIGINAL: GotSteel
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ORIGINAL: Kana
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ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you tried looking up statistics to see if part 2 works?
Sure. I walked into an anonymous program full of liars who keep no records and asked to see their stats.
Clown question, bro.
*face palm*
In the few seconds you spent writing that mocking reply you could have been on google scholar looking up nearly 100 studies on the subject. Take this one for instance:
quote:
ORIGINAL: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/2/108.full
THE IMPACT OF SELF-HELP GROUP ATTENDANCE ON RELAPSE RATES AFTER ALCOHOL DETOXIFICATION IN A CONTROLLED STUDY
Abstract
Aims: Self-help groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) are widely recommended for aftercare of alcohol-dependent persons, even though scientific knowledge of its effectiveness is inconsistent. The aim of the present analysis was to elucidate whether persons attending AA groups regularly after detoxification have lower relapse rates within 1 year, compared to persons without self-help group attendance. Methods: Data for the present analysis were derived from the placebo-group of a multi-centre study in Germany (Wiesbeck et al., 2001). Patients were free to choose either self-help group attendance (N = 50) or no support (N = 28). Results: After 1-month of follow-up, there was a lower relapse rate in patients attending a self-help group as compared to the control group, a difference, however, that leveled off during the following months. Moreover, relapse rates did not differ significantly at any point of time between both groups. Levels of social functioning improved in both groups over 1 year. Conclusions: The present study was unable to show an advantage of self-help group attendance in reducing relapses compared to the control group.
So why ask me then?
Don't ask me to do what you can do for yourself. You may just learn something on the journey, too.
And again, I'm really ambivalent about taking any stats on recovery rates too much to heart. The cats just lie to much. Drunks are, and I should know, about as straight as a corkscrew. And getting honest answers out of em when it comes to drinking is uber tough to do. Remember also that these stats are often skewed by people who've stayed sober because they are on long term rehabs or jails, controlled environments, or under/facing serious criminal charges. A drunk can stay dry quite some time if there's a bottle of bourbon waiting at the end of the tunnel.
Not just that, but AFAIK, there's never been a truly long term study re recovery rates. Some run a year, maybe two, but I've never seen one that covers a decade or more, which is kinda sad.
I will say this. From what I've seen, and what I was taught when I worked in recovery centers, about 1 in 30 people will get sober for a year, that makes 3% (Which surprisingly is pretty much the exact same rate of drunks who decide to quit drinking on their own and stay sober w/o any program). For every 100 one year chip sold, the company that makes the chips sells 20 five year chips, 10 ten year chips, and 5 twenty year chips.
Now maybe those folks quit AA, maybe they moved to Sausalito and get a better life, maybe they switch programs or go to church, but from these seats, it looks like a real slender reed for a hard core alkie to have long term sobriety.
Course I also believe that people aren't statistics, that we have the power of self determination, and we have the ability to determine our own fates.
Some AA folk are gonna probably come on board here, vehemently disagree with me, spout their figures or what The Big Book says and that's cool, they have their own truths as determined by their own experiences.
I'm not knocking AA, or any other 12 step program, I'm all for em. Just laying out the numbers as I see em
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