quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
As someone who worked in the recovery community for a long time I both get this and don't.
1-I absolutely get the concept that drinking is just a symptom of the deeper underlying character flaws underneath that cause alcoholism. And I totally understand that you can take the alcohol out of the drunk and all that you'll be left with is the "ic"
2-That said, after twenty years of practicing the steps, which are defined as " a group of principles, spiritual in their nature, which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole," these flaws should be grooved down to where they are largely a non-issue. Further, the point of the 12 steps is to "have a spiritual awakening" which is later defined as " a personality change sufficient to overcome alcohol."-in other words, psychic and spiritual surgery (Or better yet, dentistry has occurred) has been undertaken, the ex problem drinker has done a whole shift in make up, deportment, values, and moral guideposts and thus is quite literally a new man....not the same person who walked in the door of the 12 steps. Kinda like the religious concept of being reborn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
As someone who worked in the recovery community for a long time I both get this and don't.
1-I absolutely get the concept that drinking is just a symptom of the deeper underlying character flaws underneath that cause alcoholism. And I totally understand that you can take the alcohol out of the drunk and all that you'll be left with is the "ic"
2-That said, after twenty years of practicing the steps, which are defined as " a group of principles, spiritual in their nature, which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole," these flaws should be grooved down to where they are largely a non-issue. Further, the point of the 12 steps is to "have a spiritual awakening" which is later defined as " a personality change sufficient to overcome alcohol."-in other words, psychic and spiritual surgery (Or better yet, dentistry has occurred) has been undertaken, the ex problem drinker has done a whole shift in make up, deportment, values, and moral guideposts and thus is quite literally a new man....not the same person who walked in the door of the 12 steps. Kinda like the religious concept of being reborn.

Have you tried looking up statistics to see if part 2 works?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Have you tried looking up statistics to see if part 2 works?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you tried looking up statistics to see if part 2 works?

Sure. I walked into an anonymous program full of liars who keep no records and asked to see their stats.

Clown question, bro.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/2/108.full
THE IMPACT OF SELF-HELP GROUP ATTENDANCE ON RELAPSE RATES AFTER ALCOHOL DETOXIFICATION IN A CONTROLLED STUDY

Abstract
Aims: Self-help groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) are widely recommended for aftercare of alcohol-dependent persons, even though scientific knowledge of its effectiveness is inconsistent. The aim of the present analysis was to elucidate whether persons attending AA groups regularly after detoxification have lower relapse rates within 1 year, compared to persons without self-help group attendance. Methods: Data for the present analysis were derived from the placebo-group of a multi-centre study in Germany (Wiesbeck et al., 2001). Patients were free to choose either self-help group attendance (N = 50) or no support (N = 28). Results: After 1-month of follow-up, there was a lower relapse rate in patients attending a self-help group as compared to the control group, a difference, however, that leveled off during the following months. Moreover, relapse rates did not differ significantly at any point of time between both groups. Levels of social functioning improved in both groups over 1 year. Conclusions: The present study was unable to show an advantage of self-help group attendance in reducing relapses compared to the control group.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Have you tried looking up statistics to see if part 2 works?

Sure. I walked into an anonymous program full of liars who keep no records and asked to see their stats.

Clown question, bro.

*face palm*

In the few seconds you spent writing that mocking reply you could have been on google scholar looking up nearly 100 studies on the subject. Take this one for instance:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/2/108.full
THE IMPACT OF SELF-HELP GROUP ATTENDANCE ON RELAPSE RATES AFTER ALCOHOL DETOXIFICATION IN A CONTROLLED STUDY

Abstract
Aims: Self-help groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) are widely recommended for aftercare of alcohol-dependent persons, even though scientific knowledge of its effectiveness is inconsistent. The aim of the present analysis was to elucidate whether persons attending AA groups regularly after detoxification have lower relapse rates within 1 year, compared to persons without self-help group attendance. Methods: Data for the present analysis were derived from the placebo-group of a multi-centre study in Germany (Wiesbeck et al., 2001). Patients were free to choose either self-help group attendance (N = 50) or no support (N = 28). Results: After 1-month of follow-up, there was a lower relapse rate in patients attending a self-help group as compared to the control group, a difference, however, that leveled off during the following months. Moreover, relapse rates did not differ significantly at any point of time between both groups. Levels of social functioning improved in both groups over 1 year. Conclusions: The present study was unable to show an advantage of self-help group attendance in reducing relapses compared to the control group.