RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right? pro's/con's

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RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 3:47:26 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Is health care a privilege or a right?

I think the question grabs the wrong end of the stick. I don't think anybody has a "right" to demand that others provide them with care.

Do we not demand that others provide us with police and fire protection?
Your statement above implies that those on the recieving end of the medical services are not themselves contributors to it's maintaience.

Is said police and fire protection a right? Funny thing there, as the courts have time and time again stated that the police owe no duty (under no obligation) to protect anyone. The police do not exist to protect you but to enforce the laws.

Anyway, it appears by your use of such argument that it's your desire that others provide you with the level of healthcare you demand yet cannot afford yourself.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 41

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 3:57:36 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If we as a society feel that healthy people are better for our society than unhealthy people then we have a right to make that a reality.

Well damn son

May I quote you?

quote:

ThompsonX

quote:

quote: Yachtie

Edit: If society has the [............] to impose such a duty, and as that duty comes at a cost is it not also the duty of society to minimize costs (i.e. outlawing improper behaviors which raise costs)

The second ammendment recognizes our right to bear arms. We have laws which prohibit those who own firearms from sticking up banks. We pay the police to enforce those prohibitions. Your arguement would seem to be calling for the ways to lower the cost of the police.
How are the two concepts different in your mind?
If you want to attach "improper behavior" to health care what would you feel constitutes improper behavior? If they are not prohibited activities like bank robery how then did you arrive at them being improper behavior. Should a gun owner be denied their right to posses because, through negligence, they lost a weapon and now has cost the system by filing a police report and having the police spend valuable time looking for the lost weapon?

Now, dude, just how the hell are you going to make people healthy without dictating their behavior?

(This is like shooting fish in a barrel

)

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 42

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 3:59:01 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Either we have a "RIGHT" to healthcare, or we do not.

Bottom Line::::: IS IT A RIGHT?

First things first. Just what is a right?

A right is something that is yours intrinsically...like the right to your life.

quote:

I'll put it this way, within context as being discussed, "Only if you have the right to pick your neighbor's pocket sans governmental authority (license)".

Do you actually believe this insipid drivel you post? Perhaps you might consult a dictionary as to the meaning of words and cease creating out of whole cloth meaningless definitions.

quote:

This would be to the same degree as drawing breath.
Black's Law Dict. 6th. Ed. defines License as "permission by a competent authority to do that which would otherwise be illegal, a trespass or a tort".

How does it define right?
How does it define priviledge?
That is what we are discussing here

quote:

Does government have the authority to mandate some form of ~universal healthcare?

According to the constitution it does

quote:

That's debatable but for yucks lets say yes. If it requires some act by a competent authority to accomplish such, paid for by mandated participation of all,

The word you are looking for here is representative democracy.
That would be the same group that makes us pay for the fire department etc.

quote:

would it also be legal to pick your neighbor's pocket to pay for some of your healthcare sans said government mandate (act)? If the answer is no, then said within context healthcare is no right but a privilege by legislation.

Your post have a rather jejune understanding of the context you would presume to impose on this discussion. If we apply this to the second ammendment, it would be a priviledge and not a right to own firearms because the government taxes all of us to pay for the protection ,enforcement and administration of those 2nd ammendment rights.

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 43

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 4:11:32 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If we as a society feel that healthy people are better for our society than unhealthy people then we have a right to make that a reality.

Well damn son May I quote you?

Son???what are you some sort of oedipal adolescent.???

quote:

ThompsonX

quote:

quote: Yachtie

Edit: If society has the [............] to impose such a duty, and as that duty comes at a cost is it not also the duty of society to minimize costs (i.e. outlawing improper behaviors which raise costs)

The second ammendment recognizes our right to bear arms. We have laws which prohibit those who own firearms from sticking up banks. We pay the police to enforce those prohibitions. Your arguement would seem to be calling for the ways to lower the cost of the police.
How are the two concepts different in your mind?
If you want to attach "improper behavior" to health care what would you feel constitutes improper behavior? If they are not prohibited activities like bank robery how then did you arrive at them being improper behavior. Should a gun owner be denied their right to posses because, through negligence, they lost a weapon and now has cost the system by filing a police report and having the police spend valuable time looking for the lost weapon?

quote:

Now, dude, just how the hell are you going to make people healthy without dictating their behavior?

You seem pretty confident in attacking something I did not say. Would it be possible for you to actually address what I said?.

(This is like shooting fish in a barrel

)

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 44

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 4:24:50 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Does government have the authority to mandate some form of ~universal healthcare?

According to the constitution it does

I'll inform SCOTUS that it need not concern itself. ThompsonX has spoken.

I'm done with you.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 45

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 4:28:28 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Is health care a privilege or a right?

I think the question grabs the wrong end of the stick. I don't think anybody has a "right" to demand that others provide them with care.

Do we not demand that others provide us with police and fire protection?
Your statement above implies that those on the recieving end of the medical services are not themselves contributors to it's maintaience.

quote:

Is said police and fire protection a right?

Do we not demand that others provide us with police and fire protection? Of course we do. Why? Because we have a right to life. We make everyone pay for the enforcement and administration of that right.

quote:

Funny thing there, as the courts have time and time again stated that the police owe no duty (under no obligation) to protect anyone.

Would you happen to have any validation for this insipid nonsense?

quote:

The police do not exist to protect you but to enforce the laws.

Who made those laws? What do those laws prohibit?

quote:

Anyway, it appears by your use of such argument that it's your desire that others provide you with the level of healthcare you demand yet cannot afford yourself.

My health care is paid for by lovely taxpayers like yourself. Everything is 100 percent free. I can drive and be paid about fifty cents a mile round trip or they will send a ride to pick me up and bring me back home.
I wish the same level of care for all.

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 46

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 4:36:12 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Does government have the authority to mandate some form of ~universal healthcare?

According to the constitution it does

I'll inform SCOTUS that it need not concern itself. ThompsonX has spoken.

I'm done with you.

perhaps while you are gone you might avail yourself of a copy of the constitution. It is a quick read, quicker if you don't move your lips.
btw:You might also acquaint yourself with what specifically scotus is going to rule on.

quote:

I'm done with you.

No you are not...you enjoy public humiliation too much.

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 47

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 4:42:18 PM

Yachtie

Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Funny thing there, as the courts have time and time again stated that the police owe no duty (under no obligation) to protect anyone.

Would you happen to have any validation for this insipid nonsense?

Insipid nonsense you say?

Would the NY TIMES do?

Perhaps this might help.

You really are insufferable.

quote:

quote: thonpsonx

quote:

quote: Yachtie

I'm done with you.

No you are not...you enjoy public humiliation too much.

I have enjoyed publicly humiliating you. You got me there

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 5/25/2012 4:45:04 PM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 48

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 6:05:57 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

What about the millions of "adults" that work part time, or have jobs that don't provide insurance, and can't afford to "buy" insurance

That is why I emphasized affordable with governmental subsidies if necessary. I don’t think anyone should be forced to buy insurance but then they should not expect free care at my expense. Seems like some kind of take home wage scale for a governmental subsidy could make insurance affordable for all while still making people accountable for some of the cost.

The cost is the cost and it makes no real difference how this cost is recovered. Either I directly pay a premium or I pay in taxes I will still pay.

I am all for the proposed healthcare plan and believe we should give it a chance and if it does not work make changes. I personally do not like the idea of forcing people to buy insurance but I am willing to see how it plays out.

But

I think the real savings will come about when and only when we open competition between insurance companies and get control of price fixing pharmaceutical practices.

So no is my answer for a right or privilege but that does not mean I don’t believe change is needed.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/25/2012 6:20:59 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 49

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 7:31:18 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

The cost is the cost and it makes no real difference how this cost is recovered.

The cost of health care has been inflated by for-profit insurance companies and then by for-profit hospitals. Did you know both these business enterprises were once totally 100% non-profit? Then some enterprising young capitalist came along, became an executive and said something like "You know, we could really make some money here. All we have to do is drop the pesky 501C(3), declare ourselves for-profit, raise our rates and watch the money roll in. We'll all be rich!!" And soon every health insurance company, auto insurance, life insurance and every other type of insurance was sold at a premium for the purpose to earn the company a profit and no other reason. Which is why it is so hard to get an insurance company to pay out. Profits and their wallets mean far more to these creeps than anything else be it somebody's health, a nurse's pay check or the financial stability of a hospital.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 50

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 8:22:37 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

That is why I emphasized affordable with governmental subsidies if necessary. I don’t think anyone should be forced to buy insurance but then they should not expect free care at my expense. Seems like some kind of take home wage scale for a governmental subsidy could make insurance affordable for all while still making people accountable for some of the cost.

The cost is the cost and it makes no real difference how this cost is recovered. Either I directly pay a premium or I pay in taxes I will still pay.

I am all for the proposed healthcare plan and believe we should give it a chance and if it does not work make changes. I personally do not like the idea of forcing people to buy insurance but I am willing to see how it plays out.

But

I think the real savings will come about when and only when we open competition between insurance companies and get control of price fixing pharmaceutical practices.

So no is my answer for a right or privilege but that does not mean I don’t believe change is needed.

Butch

Thanks Butch, I appreciate your reply.
It seems like many that have posted, want single-payer health care.

These days, I think more citizens than less, feel that health care/coverage, should be a "RIGHT" in the United States.

At least we agree, that change is needed in the current system.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 51

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 8:27:40 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

quote:

The cost is the cost and it makes no real difference how this cost is recovered.

The cost of health care has been inflated by for-profit insurance companies and then by for-profit hospitals. Did you know both these business enterprises were once totally 100% non-profit? Then some enterprising young capitalist came along, became an executive and said something like "You know, we could really make some money here. All we have to do is drop the pesky 501C(3), declare ourselves for-profit, raise our rates and watch the money roll in. We'll all be rich!!" And soon every health insurance company, auto insurance, life insurance and every other type of insurance was sold at a premium for the purpose to earn the company a profit and no other reason. Which is why it is so hard to get an insurance company to pay out. Profits and their wallets mean far more to these creeps than anything else be it somebody's health, a nurse's pay check or the financial stability of a hospital.

I agree for profit corporations, insurance companies, etc. /capitalists, are fighting to not have any single-payer system.

Wouldn't it just be easier to say that this country values money/profit/and material gain, over the health care needs of it's citizens?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to erieangel)

Post #: 52

RE: Memorial Day Question /Is health care a Privilege o... - 5/25/2012 8:54:47 PM

SternSkipper

Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

How is this a "Memorial Day Question"?

Getting better care for our Veterans--that's a Memorial Day Question.

Here's something visually stunning seen today in Boston.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

Tinfoilers Swallow

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 53

RE: Memorial Day Question /Is health care a Privilege o... - 5/25/2012 9:03:36 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline

Why not be the first to start a really great veteran's thread for the Memorial Day weekend?

Go ahead, you can do it.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to SternSkipper)

Post #: 54

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 10:32:16 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

All Americans are supposed to have the right to life and the pursuit of happiness, not just the rich. Since lack of health care interferes with life and the pursuit of happiness, I feel that health care, like education, and fire departments, is a right, not a privilege. Instead of viewing the Constitution in a humane way, Republicans are viewing it in an inhumane way and using it as an excuse for their uncaring cruelty. Death row inmates die painless deaths by lethal injection while law abiding citizens that just happen to be poor and sick die slow excruciating deaths just because they're unable to afford health care. The US is more humane to prisoners than the sick innocent poor. Prisoners get universal health care. Not too long ago, a man robbed a bank for $1 because he needed health care. Trying to tell Republicans that they're already paying through taxes when poor people go to the ER does no good. They'd rather know people are suffering when they say they don't want to pay for someone else's care. They care nothing about the betterment of society. All they care about is greed. I wish I had been born in one of the other developed countries because the number of narcissists in their populations are much lower.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 55

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 11:07:37 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Does government have the authority to mandate some form of ~universal healthcare?

According to the constitution it does

I'll inform SCOTUS that it need not concern itself. ThompsonX has spoken.

I'm done with you.

Are you one of those types of people that believe 'the goverment' is some sort of mystically and secretative organization that people dont know exists? The goverment is "Of the People, By the People, For the People". If "The People" decide that living healthy is better on their wallets and wiser in the long run; not to mention show why with medical evidience that is readily and freely available. Than couldn't said people decide to create a set of rules that allow such a process to be created and run?

The folks in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts did just that! We got sick of businesses telling us how health care was to be handled, and of those unfortunates being thrown to the ground and laughed at. We created laws, rules, and regulations that they now have to follow or face stiff penalties. For such a well populated stated, we cover 98.1% of the US Citizens with some form of good health coverage. It isn't a myth or very complicated concept (unless your educational level is limited to the 6th grade).

Likewise, no one has challenged it, because it benefits the whole of the population of the state. Businesses still make a profit, people can see doctors in small businesses rather than 'ER Care' which is the norm for the other 45 states, 3 commonwealths and 6 terrirtories. Is it a perfectly run system? It has its problems and issues that can be fixed with better ideas given time. It costs less than snow removal for the state (its less than 2% of the budget for 2012).

The US Supreme Court, only becomes inolve in any legal issue AFTER it has been reviewed and judged by previous courts.

(in reply to Yachtie)

Post #: 56

RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right... - 5/25/2012 11:19:59 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Anyway, it appears by your use of such argument that it's your desire that others provide you with the level of healthcare you demand yet cannot afford yourself.

My health care is paid for by lovely taxpayers like yourself. Everything is 100 percent free. I can drive and be paid about fifty cents a mile round trip or they will send a ride to pick me up and bring me back home.
I wish the same level of care for all.

Feel like I should clarify this, as your both wrong. The health care given by the US Goverment (through agencies and groups) is NOT paid with taxpayer funds. Its paid with federal budget money. I know that sounds so shocking but there is a method to the madness....

When you go to a gas station to fill up your car's tank, and hand over the money, the question is "Can you tell that gas station how it will spend that money"? Of course you can! Will they listen to you? Oh hell no! Yet, you gave them money, and by doing that action, the money is no longer your money; it becomes their money. Samething with goverment. When you pay taxes (i.e. income taxes, gas tax, etc), the money you give to the goverment is no longer your money. It is now the 'property' of the goverment. However, unlike the gas station, if you proceed the right way, you can influence how your money is spent. We have people in each state that report to Congress in Washington, D.C.: Representatives and Senators. How you get their attention is of course the name of the game. Most people simply give them money and stuff (aka bribe 'em). Others use fearmongering or sympathy issues.

You didnt pay for the guy in Ohio to get some surgery that would help him live a better life. The Federal Goverment did that directly. If you gave money to the fellow directly, you STILL couldnt tell him how to spend it, unless A) You entered into a mutual contract and B) can than prove in court that he reneged on his end of it.

< Message edited by joether -- 5/25/2012 11:20:24 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 57

RE: Memorial Day Question /Is health care a Privilege o... - 5/25/2012 11:32:58 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I think we need universal health care under a single payer system. I think time will force us to eventually if we don't willingly.

I don't give a fuck about the semantics that debate will devolve into.

Sigh, I guess that mean's you did not look at the pro's and con's l listed?

I also didn't, but I know both sides of the coin first hand, Europe with national health care and the US with some weird cowboy system where insurances can wangle out, deny you treatment...

I don't need to go into the a right or a privilege issue, it's an economic question, how much does the state spend on people that have chronic illnesses which became chronic because they weren't screened or couldn't see a doctor, so therefore they are not able to work anymore and depend on social security? Prevention and early treatment is a lot cheaper...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 58

RE: Memorial Day Question /Is health care a Privilege o... - 5/26/2012 12:04:28 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I also didn't, but I know both sides of the coin first hand, Europe with national health care and the US with some weird cowboy system where insurances can wangle out, deny you treatment...

I don't need to go into the a right or a privilege issue, it's an economic question, how much does the state spend on people that have chronic illnesses which became chronic because they weren't screened or couldn't see a doctor, so therefore they are not able to work anymore and depend on social security? Prevention and early treatment is a lot cheaper...

I'm going to try to dumb this down without losing the good stuff in the process. *NO* this is not to be insulting to you, LadyContanze or anyone else. The problem your speaking of with regards to US health care is just complex and complicated.....

If a person has a chronic illness that could be fixed with surgery/other types of treatments, but cost more in the immediate time being, do we go in that direction? Long term, the patient would most likely not be affected by the problems, or would be minimalized. 'For-Profit' insurance companies and hospitals are less inclided to do so, as the chronic ill patient creates a longer term cash cow for them. Is it unethical? Of course it is! But again, this is all dumbed down on purpose; trying to fix this is even more amazingly....complex and complicated. And that too (fixing the issues creating the unethical actions) do not generate more profit for the companies, but create more expenses that reduce their net profit. And why are for-profit companies in existance kids? To MAKE MORE MONEY!

Likewise, the rules and regulations are set to allow the chance to find the cure for cancer, and give the company that finds that information the ability to make huge profits. The question becomes one of REAL ethics. If your a medical doctor, do you keep the secret for curing cancer to millions of Americans to yourself and force patients to pay for it; or give it out freely? The problem is, doctors are not the ones making those kind of decisions and choices; its the 'The Suits' whom are generally governed by greed that do. And they'll make sure that all those within their company (and leave for a period of 'X' years afterward) can not talk about the cure without being so financially ruined as they'd be better off dead!

Again, the question and concept you ask is very complex and complicated, that I do not think most people can rationally 'wrap their head around it' enough to handle the discussion. I dont understand it fully! But that which I do understand makes me disguested that such business practices are allowed to operated: Profitting off the Suffering of Others!

< Message edited by joether -- 5/26/2012 12:06:11 AM >

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 59

RE: Memorial Day Question /Is health care a Privilege o... - 5/26/2012 3:47:18 AM

SadistDave

Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Health insurance is what you pay to people to allegedly save you money on your health care....

Health care is what you get at the hospital. Go to ANY hospital in America with a life threatening issue and they are required by law to give you minimal health care whether you have insurance or not. You are simply required to pay for it. However, because we really do care about the poor and disenfranchised in America, there are about a hundred programs (both government and private charities) that will pay your bills if you truely are in need. Groups like the Shriners build and maintain hospitals and donate the vast majority of their services absolutely free of charge. Government run health clinics provide minimal care in poor neighborhoods at no cost. Planned Parenthood provides a number of services for free or at minimal cost. There are special public and private programs available to pay for the health care needs of virtually every demographic and special interest group.

There is absolutely no lack of health care for the poor in America. There is really not much of a lack of free health care for the poor here either when you get down to brass tacks. Yes, there is a lack of insurance for the poor, but I don't think there's ever been a case of anyone ever being cured of a debilitating illness by an insurance policy.

Insurance does nothing but drive the cost of care up, and the quality of care down. Why? Because it is the business of middlemen who have nothing to do with the actual care. Their job is to profit by paying a lower price than you are willing to find for yourself. In the mean time, insurance providers choose the benefits of the policies you buy, what type of care is covered and what is not. This liberal myth that single-payer health care will somehow solve everyones health problems is bogus. What it will do is simply define a new set of minimal guidelines for the health care that your insurance will cover. Nothing more, nothing less.

Consider: Insurance companies show billions of dollars in profits every year. People pay them. They pay hospitals. Nothing else happens. It really is that simple. That's all an insurance company really does. So the question is simply this: If you think you're getting a good deal on insurance, how do insurance companies make billions of dollars a year? Insurance companies lose money on the sick. They profit from the healthy. The secret is that they get to choose what kind of sicknesses they are willing to lose money on. So if they are making billions a year... how much less expensive would health care be if those billions were realized in savings to the consumer instead of lining the pockets of people who do not actually provide care?

There's been a lot of talk here about single payer health insurance. In reality, single payer insurance programs are a tax on good health because the government becomes your insurance broker, and you will be required to pay for coverage. But, they will still get to decide what illnesses they are willing to lose money on and the healthy people will pay the tax without realizing any of the benefits of the tax because they do not need the services. Now, certainly there is always the chance of a debilitating illness or catastrophic event that causes a healthy person to need insurance. But just like the private insurance industry, if the government gets to choose what they are willing to pay for, then there is always the very real chance that you will need care beyond the coverage they are willing to give you based on their minimum guidelines. In the end, nothing is gained.

But what may be lost? If the government gets into the health insurance business, then it will become more cost effective for them to stop funding existing programs and clinics. Private donations to charities that pay for care for the poor may (or may not) see a dramatic decrease based on the myth that they will somehow be covered by the government. Some of the best doctors in the country donate their time and skills right now in free clinics that may very well disappear under government mandated insurance, so whether they get waivers or not, the poor may still lose quality health care because they will now be insured for whatever the government mandates their coverage shall be.

Food for thought.
-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 5/26/2012 3:48:47 AM >

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 60

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Memorial Day /Is health care a Privilege or a Right? pro's/con's

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